[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, fanfor42 said:

Wondering if the Canuck management is maybe going to bide their time with Horvat and see how good Kuzmenko can be this year before  coming back around to look at signing one or the other. Kuz will need a new contract next year as will Horvat. Hmm..

 

Not saying they let Horvat walk but maybe they need to time to see what the math is going to look like - is Kuz a 3M guy to re-sign or a 5 to 7 M guy to re-sign.

 

 

 

 

Bo is a centre and Kuz is a winger though.  So how can Kuz, n matter how good he is, fill Bo’s role?

[cripplereh]

15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Bo is a centre and Kuz is a winger though.  So how can Kuz, n matter how good he is, fill Bo’s role?

Maybe bigger deal like Bo and Garland for a Rd and 3c? Or something sign and trade?

[Alflives]

50 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

Maybe bigger deal like Bo and Garland for a Rd and 3c? Or something sign and trade?

If we could move Bo + Garland for (let’s say) Pulock and Barzal then I’d be very happy trading Bo. 

[N4ZZY]

6 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

That was a false rumour, if we couldnt hear a single accurate rumour about JTs extension, how the hell do you believe that rumour? Management has kept the lid sealed on their negotiations

I'm just saying that's the number thrown out there. I didn't say I believed it, just that the number 5M was thrown out there. If true, that's definitely a slap in the face. I'd like to think that this current management group isn't stupid like the previous one was. 

 

[N4ZZY]

6 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

You look at character on and off ice and you can get a sense of what the person is like and wether or not they give a crap about getting paid or going for a cup. Does Bo strike you as the kinda guy who could care less about a cup and is fine getting shipped to some middle of the pack or lower team and be satisfied getting paid. Or do you see the kinda guy who went from a slow and weak skater in his rookie year, to a very strong and powerful skater in just one off season who is giving it all he has to reach his goals? I see the hungry player who isnt satisfied with everything he has done and is hungry to push harder and win a cup

I definitely see that he's that kind of guy. But at the end of the day, it's not personal, it's business, and he has a family to take care of. So he definitely has a particular number in mind that he wants to be paid for, and his worth. If this team isn't going to give it to him, he's got other suitors in a year's time that could very well give him closer to what he's asking for. 

 

I'm not Bo, so again, I can't say for sure what he's thinking. I'd like to think he's a character guy, and that money isn't the end all be all of everything. But look, I wouldn't blame the guy one bit if he left and signed elsewhere. And maybe this maangement team doesn't want to pay Bo whatever he's asking for. 

 

My gut, however, tells me that he's probably signing closer to 7M over the max number of years the Canucks can give him. I think he's actually stated that he wants to be a Canuck here long term. I find it hard for him to retract that. I think he'll make it work. 

 

[EdgarM]

10 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I definitely see that he's that kind of guy. But at the end of the day, it's not personal, it's business, and he has a family to take care of. So he definitely has a particular number in mind that he wants to be paid for, and his worth. If this team isn't going to give it to him, he's got other suitors in a year's time that could very well give him closer to what he's asking for. 

 

I'm not Bo, so again, I can't say for sure what he's thinking. I'd like to think he's a character guy, and that money isn't the end all be all of everything. But look, I wouldn't blame the guy one bit if he left and signed elsewhere. And maybe this maangement team doesn't want to pay Bo whatever he's asking for. 

 

My gut, however, tells me that he's probably signing closer to 7M over the max number of years the Canucks can give him. I think he's actually stated that he wants to be a Canuck here long term. I find it hard for him to retract that. I think he'll make it work. 

 

I don't buy that "he has a family to take care of" this man is a millionaire and if he is worried about whether he is making an additional 54 million instead of 56 million then good riddance. 

Also, we had players previously who didn't care about the team and chased the money or wouldn't move at the trade deadline to better the team. The last players I truly respected were Burr and Hansen. 

So, if he moves on, it will be for his own gains and his team and team mates will obviously be secondary. Not the type of player I would want on this team if that was the case anyway.

[Salacious Crumb]

5 hours ago, wildcam said:

Linden trade was a fantastic trade for Vancouver....Burtuzzi - McCabe - 3rd pick -- McCabe was key in getting the twins and we seen how that turned out--Bertuzzi was a fantastic power forward for years.. Great trade..

Linden's was on down slide right time to make that trade..

It was a great trade. The 3rd rounder was Ruutu, my favourite pest.

[shiznak]

9 hours ago, Coconuts said:

You did miss it, you also missed my saying Linden isn't an icon for leading the NHLPA despite being respected around the league in a follow up post. 

 

Leading the NHLPA doesn't make you an icon. Leaders aren't all icons. Not once have I argued that Linden wasn't a leader, he was a tremendous Canuck and I've nothing but respect for his Canuck-related body of work, but he's only an icon to Canucks fans. He's in the rafters, he's Captain Canuck, he's one of the most popular Canucks ever and he's had tremendous impact on Vancouver and BC but I don't need to make his impact at the NHL level out to be more than it was. 

 

We can keep going round in circles if you'd like but we're probably better off agreeing to disagree. 

FWIW, Linden does have an Order of Canada and Order of BC to his name. If that means anything. 

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, Canucklehead73 said:

All I will add is.... there's no way Bo doesn't deserve more than  Boeser... not possible.

Absolutely.   Brock took less then his qualifying offer and didn't get much term.  Two years of RFA and one UFA year that's it.   He's also got no trade protection.   He's guaranteed 19.5ish.  Horvat is looking at guaranteed money in the 49-56 range.   Two completely different scenarios, and if he takes say 6.5 x 8, he's not taking less then Brock at all.   Brocks career is still not a foregone conclusion.    Another season like last year and Allvin will do whatever he can to dump him.   He's barely earned his RFA deal, arguably didn't earn it given he can't seem to play an entire season.    Horvat at 7 x 8 is fair.   Not a great deal for the club but not terrible either.   Nobody is going to pay Horvat 8 x 7 unless they are Milbury 2.0 ... but it's entirely possible he signs for the same amount of money with us, 7 x 8.      I'm hoping he leaves money for EP, the same way Miller left money for him.   He's not doing that if it starts with a 7 though. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, EdgarM said:

I don't buy that "he has a family to take care of" this man is a millionaire and if he is worried about whether he is making an additional 54 million instead of 56 million then good riddance. 

Also, we had players previously who didn't care about the team and chased the money or wouldn't move at the trade deadline to better the team. The last players I truly respected were Burr and Hansen. 

So, if he moves on, it will be for his own gains and his team and team mates will obviously be secondary. Not the type of player I would want on this team if that was the case anyway.

I agree.   Players always say the right things (well not always but mostly), during negotiations.   It doesn't always work out for the home team, Tavares totally led NYI fans on... and could stayed for the same money.   But left.  Horvat is keeping his cards close to his chest which does cause anxiety with the fan base and media types following the team, in a vacuum stuff gets made up lol (Drance and even Friedman, they are just "thoughts" after all, all 32 of them now!).   I bet secretly Friedman hopes Horvat signs with Toronto lol.   Trade Kerfoot back and a first rounder ... and we retain so they can win a cup etc.   And then TO trades Mathews to ARI etc  see i'm making stuff up now too. 

 

Hansen, Burrows and Bieksa were the lone guys that actually wanted to win a cup so eventually waived.   However, they did it too late for us, not much left in the tank and their value's had gone way down.    Edler, sure he's an icon of sorts owning the club records (for now), but he's no Ohlund who did chase a cup.    SJ was a contender, ANA too, and OTT has just missed out on a double OT goal which would have sent them to the final instead of PIT.     Edler going to LA says all we need to know about where his priorities laid.    Didn't waive when asked.    

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I mean, Linden and Iginla both won the exact same leadership awards. Both have a King Clancy and a now discontinued NHL Foundation Player Award. Iginla also won a Messier leadership award which ain't nothing despite the name being in poor taste. Iginla was well known for his community work too. They both lead their teams to game 7 of the Stanley Cup final, they both almost had a cup. They both won several team awards too and positively impacted their communities, difference is Linden had the luxury of playing in a province with one NHL team as opposed to two. No Alberta player is going to have the provincial recognition Linden does in BC because Alberta is a province with a hockey divide that doesn't exist in BC. 

 

Iginla also had extensive international success and likely contributed to the leadership of those teams. Two Olympic gold, a world championship, a world cup, world junior gold like Linden. I don't agree that giving up the captaincy somehow makes Linden a better leader and neither their hardware or their individual reputations bear that out. 

 

My pointing all this out in no way takes away from Linden's accomplishments but Iginla coming up in both leadership and captaincy conversations isn't unfounded either. Like Linden he was also a tremendous captain who worked hard, played an honest and tough game, contributed to his community, and who is heralded as probably his team's most popular player ever. He was just a superior hockey player on top of all that. 

 

I don't think you were around for Linden's playing days.   Before he moved to center, i have a hockey young stars book from the early 90's predicting he'd end up in the HHOF.   Was it 7 years in a row scoring 30 goals?  He starred as an 18 year old.   Iginla in the 90's, took time to take traction but of course did.   Linden was also played in the first Olympics with NHL players in 1998.   And was one of the leaders on that team, which was full of leaders.  

 

THN did a ranking of best all-time Canucks, a couple years before the Sedins were done.   Guess who they picked as number one?    Trevor Linden. That's an Eastern influenced source, headquarters in Toronto, and you can bet they'd watched him play.   Linden was arguably our best forward in 1994.   He was moved to center to handle Joel Otto because nobody else could.   Despite being moved, he still scored at almost a PPG and was clutch when we needed him to be.   Bure of course was the better player ... both guys are mentioned by anyone talking about 94, and it's still regarded as the best final in the modern era - by THN again an Eastern media source with no skin in it.   Only two goals separated the series.   And back then playoffs were like war.   And players didn't like each other, did fraternize etc.  Despite that, Linden still was their chosen leader off the ice.   

 

Iginla's leadership was different.   Of course he ended up the better player, but he also wasn't the better player 18-23 either.    Not many players have a regular season PPG and a playoff PPG difference Linden has either.   Even almost done, he was arguably our best forward in the Turco / Luongo series.   With minimal PP time.     Having a Linden on your team, meant almost an automatic bye to the second round. 

 

I'd bet if it came to asking public, from people who are say 48 and older ... that you might be surprised who'd they'd pick as the better leader.  Order of Canada .. Order of BC...NHLPA leader (selected by his peers, and that's during a time when Mario, Messier, Yzerman. Sakic, Gretzky etc we're around)...Captained two different teams...one of the youngest players ever to Captain an NHL team etc etc.   

 

Yes Iginla is a great leader too.   And the better player.    Probably also has more name recognition as well in the younger generations.   But he's up there with the best of his era, and that's some pretty heady company.   The 2000's was the worst era of hockey ive watched, despite some pretty good quality teams near the start.   The mid latter half was pretty tame/meek.   

[Coconuts]

10 hours ago, shiznak said:

FWIW, Linden does have an Order of Canada and Order of BC to his name. If that means anything. 

Missed those while focusing on more hockey oriented awards. The Order of Canada does, but the Order of BC doesn't for this conversation imo. Not for me anyway. It doesn't look like Gretzky has an equivalent, and when Wayne Gretzky himself doesn't even have an Alberta specific honour it tells me both provinces do things differently. In a Linden/Iginla discussion I think it's fair to take the hockey divide in Alberta into account, no player from Calgary or Edmonton will ever mean as much to the province as a whole as a result of that divide. 

 

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

I don't think you were around for Linden's playing days.   Before he moved to center, i have a hockey young stars book from the early 90's predicting he'd end up in the HHOF.   Was it 7 years in a row scoring 30 goals?  He starred as an 18 year old.   Iginla in the 90's, took time to take traction but of course did.   Linden was also played in the first Olympics with NHL players in 1998.   And was one of the leaders on that team, which was full of leaders.  

 

THN did a ranking of best all-time Canucks, a couple years before the Sedins were done.   Guess who they picked as number one?    Trevor Linden. That's an Eastern influenced source, headquarters in Toronto, and you can bet they'd watched him play.   Linden was arguably our best forward in 1994.   He was moved to center to handle Joel Otto because nobody else could.   Despite being moved, he still scored at almost a PPG and was clutch when we needed him to be.   Bure of course was the better player ... both guys are mentioned by anyone talking about 94, and it's still regarded as the best final in the modern era - by THN again an Eastern media source with no skin in it.   Only two goals separated the series.   And back then playoffs were like war.   And players didn't like each other, did fraternize etc.  Despite that, Linden still was their chosen leader off the ice.   

 

Iginla's leadership was different.   Of course he ended up the better player, but he also wasn't the better player 18-23 either.    Not many players have a regular season PPG and a playoff PPG difference Linden has either.   Even almost done, he was arguably our best forward in the Turco / Luongo series.   With minimal PP time.     Having a Linden on your team, meant almost an automatic bye to the second round. 

 

I'd bet if it came to asking public, from people who are say 48 and older ... that you might be surprised who'd they'd pick as the better leader.  Order of Canada .. Order of BC...NHLPA leader (selected by his peers, and that's during a time when Mario, Messier, Yzerman. Sakic, Gretzky etc we're around)...Captained two different teams...one of the youngest players ever to Captain an NHL team etc etc.   

 

Yes Iginla is a great leader too.   And the better player.    Probably also has more name recognition as well in the younger generations.   But he's up there with the best of his era, and that's some pretty heady company.   The 2000's was the worst era of hockey ive watched, despite some pretty good quality teams near the start.   The mid latter half was pretty tame/meek.   

Six times in eight seasons, very impressive. He wasn't really that far ahead of Iginla though, who put up 28 and 29 goal seasons in his third and fourth seasons prior to going on his 30+ goal heater. I didn't, I caught the tail end of his career as a Canuck. Not that I can be faulted for that. But yeah, I've been around here long enough to have read several tidbits about his playing days over the years. There seem to be a lot of fans on CDC who've been watching for a long time, I've always found that interesting. Linden's playoff numbers are absolutely impressive, putting up 99 points in 124 games is something special. Iginla was roughly in the same bracket across a smaller sample size with 68 in 81 though. But yeah, it's impressive than Linden managed it back then for sure. I can't speak to the differences in eras, that's always a tricky thing to touch on as it's tough to extrapolate and personal bias gets muddled in. We can go around in circles and say x would have done x in x era but we can only really assume. I don't believe hockey players as a whole were simply more talented back then and I don't think it's simple enough to say they're more talented as a whole now, there's so much to unravel there. 

 

I think you hit on a good point when you touch on different eras and ages of certain chunks of hockey fandom, because that generational piece is and important piece when it comes to discussing hockey both in regards to hockey players and hockey fans. You're looking at thing through a different lens, you watched different hockey eras and it's not the same to go back and simply watch footage. The game has also changed, and when comparing players across different eras you can't fault either player for that, only look at what they accomplished and what actually happened. There's a difference in lived experience, context, and bias. 

 

I was only really able to watch Iginla for most of his career, while watching the game that's been present while I've been alive. You make what I'm inclined to believe are legitimate Linden arguments, but I never questioned whether Linden was a great leader and I've tried to make that apparent during this ongoing Iginla/Linden conversation. I simply don't believe he was an icon to those outside the Canucks bubble, which isn't to say he isn't and wasn't respected as a player and for his community work. You hold Linden in high esteem, so do I, it's never been my intention to diminish his accomplishments. But again, different lens. Iginla was one of my favourite hockey players, I view him as having had the perfect blend of hockey intangibles in combination with his hall of fame skillset, he's absolutely going to be one of the more recent hockey players who comes up in great leader/captain conversations and for good reason. And hell, I'm not even a Flames fan.  

Edited September 24, 2022 by Coconuts

[SilentSam]

 

thats a fair assessment.

 

 

Chychrun still wants out of Arizona.

[Sophomore Jinx]

18 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

 

thats a fair assessment.

 

 

Chychrun still wants out of Arizona.

But we're afraid of change though in CDC, (but thankfully not PA/JR - I hope) so lets maintain the status quo and wrap up the Cap'n for 7.5 x 8.

[J-Dizzle]

7 minutes ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

But we're afraid of change though in CDC, (but thankfully not PA/JR - I hope) so lets maintain the status quo and wrap up the Cap'n for 7.5 x 8.

So perceptive of you to realize the only reason anyone on this forum wants to keep Bo is because they fear change…

[Sophomore Jinx]

2 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

So perceptive of you to realize the only reason anyone on this forum wants to keep Bo is because they fear change…

That didn't take long LOL, and nice try, I said no such thing, nor did I imply that; but nonetheless, it's true all the same. If YOU were "perceptive", you'd already know that.

[J-Dizzle]

14 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

So perceptive of you to realize the only reason anyone on this forum wants to keep Bo is because they fear change…

 

5 minutes ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

I said no such thing, nor did I imply that

 

23 minutes ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

But we're afraid of change though in CDC, so lets maintain the status quo and wrap up the Cap'n for 7.5 x 8.

[AnthonyG]

11 hours ago, IBatch said:

Absolutely.   Brock took less then his qualifying offer and didn't get much term.  Two years of RFA and one UFA year that's it.   He's also got no trade protection.   He's guaranteed 19.5ish.  Horvat is looking at guaranteed money in the 49-56 range.   Two completely different scenarios, and if he takes say 6.5 x 8, he's not taking less then Brock at all.   Brocks career is still not a foregone conclusion.    Another season like last year and Allvin will do whatever he can to dump him.   He's barely earned his RFA deal, arguably didn't earn it given he can't seem to play an entire season.    Horvat at 7 x 8 is fair.   Not a great deal for the club but not terrible either.   Nobody is going to pay Horvat 8 x 7 unless they are Milbury 2.0 ... but it's entirely possible he signs for the same amount of money with us, 7 x 8.      I'm hoping he leaves money for EP, the same way Miller left money for him.   He's not doing that if it starts with a 7 though. 

Uuuuuummmmmm wut??

So first off that is one of the most ignorant statements I’ve seen. Do you have a heart? Or does it not bother you if your Dad goes through traumatic health changes and slowly meets his death? That year end presser with Boeser was heart breaking. The pain in that kids voice brought a tear to my eye when he answered such a hard question regarding his fathers passing. And you want to make a statement about the season he had?? You dont think for maybe a second that his head is in another place??? And that Allvin will do anything to “dump” a guy who went through a long year, his dads last year if he repeats his last season??! Jesus christ man, Boeser was our best player in the shortened season, he has consistently been on pace to put up 25 goals almost every season and his career average is 30.6 goals over an 82 game season. And you think he’s overpaid?!! How many consistent 25-30 goal scorers are there in the league? Hes had one off year and even then, he was on pace for 26.5 goals. Give your head a shake man. Hes 25 and just entering his prime.

[Sophomore Jinx]

6 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

So perceptive of you to realize the only reason anyone on this forum wants to keep Bo is because they fear change…

 

[SilentSam]

1 hour ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

But we're afraid of change though in CDC, (but thankfully not PA/JR - I hope) so lets maintain the status quo and wrap up the Cap'n for 7.5 x 8.

That’s really too much for him .

 

I get that he has equal TRADE value as Miller as this season starts.… but he is not worth that money.

personally I’d try to sign him at 6.8 x 7yrs.

 

Anything over that leaves an opportunity to bring in a top 4 progressing D man.

(with or without assets to do it)