[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[MrCanuck94]

2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

By trio, I mean 3 players that can play the position in a top 6 role.

I like having two centres on a top line like we have been doing lately with Bo and JT.

I also liked when Ep was on the wing with JT.

 

We have a few wingers that can play in the top six, one more if we continue to double up centres. 

3 down the middle is cool too but we need to be a team that rolls the lines more evenly if we do that. 

Really good point, and teams like Tampa do have this setup (Stamkos on the wing).

 

Only difference is, our guys (other than Petey) haven't shown the ability to play consistently with high effort levels every game. Showing up every 3-4 games won't get us to contenders.

 

Would be weary of locking up everyone for that reason, but as mentioned above, if we do decide Miller is a long-term winger, would be hard to replace Bo at 2C. Dilemma.

[MrCanuck94]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

That's fair. Having a player who can play center in a pinch isn't a bad thing by any means, I just question whether he's a center or a wing as he seems to struggle with the defensive responsibility that comes with being a center. Even last year during what was probably a career year he still made questionable decisions with the puck, gave up on plays, ect. I don't think it's a coincidence that he's played better as a winger, there's less responsibility and all he has to do is drive play. 

 

But there was the discussion of the Canucks depth at center going into the season and I don't believe we're as deep as folks thought we were. Three top six centers down the middle hasn't worked. I'd argue our top six center depth consists of Pettersson and Horvat, who can capably play both ways despite Horvat being miscast as a defensive center. 

 

We still don't have a single prospect with top six upside imo, I hope we address that sooner than later. 

I was thinking about what made our 2011 team work so well, everyone just knew their role so well.

 

Henrik was the offence only center, we didn't really worry about the 2 way ability and Burrows kinda worked as the 2 way guy on that line.

Kesler was the 2 way beast.

Malhotra was the defensive center that could chip in.

Lapierre was the pest.

 

Maybe we need to find players that fit the roles better than just upside?

[BPA]

28 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: 8y x 7m

Might be too late for that.

 

If Bo is the centre to help Miller find his game and keeps up his scoring pace, think it has to be $8M x 7-8yrs.

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, MrCanuck94 said:

I was thinking about what made our 2011 team work so well, everyone just knew their role so well.

 

Henrik was the offence only center, we didn't really worry about the 2 way ability and Burrows kinda worked as the 2 way guy on that line.

Kesler was the 2 way beast.

Malhotra was the defensive center that could chip in.

Lapierre was the pest.

 

Maybe we need to find players that fit the roles better than just upside?

Roles are so important on a team, which is part of why I kept pushing back against the idea of having three top six centers down the middle. I like having your two top six centers being your offensive drivers, having more of a shutdown 3C, and having a 4C who can share some of that load with the 3C and probably 2C. I don't have an issue with Horvat playing a defensive role for us but I do think he's miscast, and that he carries more of that weight than he probably should. 

 

We haven't been able to address that 3C hole, we had Sutter there for years and Malhotra for a while before that. Despite his injury struggles and his being overpaid Sutter did take some of that load on, we need a guy who can take on that role and hold his own. I don't expect the world from a 4C, they just need to be able to at least hold their own and not be a liability at all times, and they need to be able to chip in on the PK.  

 

Pettersson and Bo can both hold their own defensively but ideally you want them driving offense more than taking on the defensive load, which isn't to say they shouldn't feature on the PK. Ideally you have bottom six centers to carry more of that load at even strength though, not that there's anything wrong with having your best players also be some of your best defensive forwards. 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

Might be too late for that.

 

If Bo is the centre to help Miller find his game and keeps up his scoring pace, think it has to be $8M x 7-8yrs.

If Bo will not sign for a cap cost of 7 or less (term is likely 8 years) then he MUST be traded.  

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If Bo will not sign for a cap cost of 7 or less (term is likely 8 years) then he MUST be traded.  

I don't see that being likely, and if the team trades him they'll be hard pressed to replace him. 

 

Not retaining him is essentially throwing in the towel on the season, which may or may not be a good thing depending on who you ask. Finding a 2C isn't an easy thing to do during the season, particularly one that performs all the roles Bo does. 

 

He's on the PP, he's on the PK, he takes most of our draws, he's the guy you want out to defend a lead or take what could be a game changing draw. He scores goals and produces despite how he's deployed, he makes life easier for every other center on the roster. 

 

He's the player management should have prioritized, not Miller. 

[rekker]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I don't see that being likely, and if the team trades him they'll be hard pressed to replace him. 

 

Not retaining him is essentially throwing in the towel on the season, which may or may not be a good thing depending on who you ask. Finding a 2C isn't an easy thing to do during the season, particularly one that performs all the roles Bo does. 

 

He's on the PP, he's on the PK, he takes most of our draws, he's the guy you want out to defend a lead or take what could be a game changing draw. He scores goals and produces despite how he's deployed, he makes life easier for every other center on the roster. 

 

He's the player management should have prioritized, not Miller. 

Agreed. I like this experiment with Bo playing center, JT on the wing. This may be legit. Having Bo makes the line combo scenarios a lot more appealing. Otherwise we have two centers, both kind of centers. Bo takes the big draws and it would be just plain dumb to get rid of him. Especially with no real quality center depth in the organization. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by rekker

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I don't see that being likely, and if the team trades him they'll be hard pressed to replace him. 

 

Not retaining him is essentially throwing in the towel on the season, which may or may not be a good thing depending on who you ask. Finding a 2C isn't an easy thing to do during the season, particularly one that performs all the roles Bo does. 

 

He's on the PP, he's on the PK, he takes most of our draws, he's the guy you want out to defend a lead or take what could be a game changing draw. He scores goals and produces despite how he's deployed, he makes life easier for every other center on the roster. 

 

He's the player management should have prioritized, not Miller. 

We could still trade Miller.  Just can’t have both unless Bo comes in 7 or less over an 8 year term.

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

Might be too late for that.

 

If Bo is the centre to help Miller find his game and keeps up his scoring pace, think it has to be $8M x 7-8yrs.

I think it's a stretch to say that Miller needs Bo to find his game.  More than likely, JT was not emotionally or

physically ready when he came to camp and it didn't help when he played few games in preseason.  He

soon got his conditioning back and the line took off.  In NHL hockey, it isn't very often that a line stays

together for the entire season though.

 

I believe there was more to 'it' when those two were put together.  What a brilliant way to bury all the rumours

alluding to a split in the locker room and various other such nonsense.  It certainly squelched the fans, media, etc

the constant speculation and gossip.  The crap buzzing around the team surely had an influence on their game.

 

 

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, rekker said:

Agreed. I like this experiment with Bo playing center, JT on the wing. This may be legit. Having Bo makes the line combo scenarios a lot more appealing. Otherwise we have two centers, both kind of centers. Bo takes the big draws and it would be just plain dumb to get rid of him. Especially with no real quality center depth in the organization. 

He looks better with Bo than he's looked the rest of the season. I see Miller as the luxury and I'm still baffled by their getting him done first. 

 

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We could still trade Miller.  Just can’t have both unless Bo comes in 7 or less over an 8 year term.

If it's one or the other I'd trade Miller every single time and reallocate some of his cap to both Horvat and to our defense. 

 

I'd utilize a combination of these players for the top six: Pettersson, Boeser Horvat, Garland, Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Pearson, Podz, Hoglander. With an upgraded defense we'd probably win more. I argued throughout the offseason that I thought we could be competitive without Miller, if we traded him and utilized some of his cap to make this team less forward heavy I still think we could compete. A more well rounded team would probably get better results imo. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Coconuts

[EddieVedder]

2 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

I was thinking about what made our 2011 team work so well, everyone just knew their role so well.

 

Henrik was the offence only center, we didn't really worry about the 2 way ability and Burrows kinda worked as the 2 way guy on that line.

Kesler was the 2 way beast.

Malhotra was the defensive center that could chip in.

Lapierre was the pest.

 

Maybe we need to find players that fit the roles better than just upside?

Too many things made that team so good.   Mostoy, Danny and hank were in god mode those 4 or so years.   We dont have players with that chemistry, or even close.

[wai_lai416]

4 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I question whether it's actually a trio, Miller can win draws but he hasn't looked good at all as a center this season. Right now we're looking at Pettersson and Bo as our top six centers. 

 

Which actually drives his value up further, Bo's irreplaceable for this club right now. 

He hasn’t looked good ever as a center ever. He puts up the production but his defensive side is non existent it’s only whenever he feels like it which is like 10% of the time. 
 

those that were arguing bo is worth less than 6.5 coz he’s a 3c so does that change now because he’s technically the 1c? As long as miller is on his line he’s going to be considered the 1c. EP is more the 2c atm

[wai_lai416]

3 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I don't see that being likely, and if the team trades him they'll be hard pressed to replace him. 

 

Not retaining him is essentially throwing in the towel on the season, which may or may not be a good thing depending on who you ask. Finding a 2C isn't an easy thing to do during the season, particularly one that performs all the roles Bo does. 

 

He's on the PP, he's on the PK, he takes most of our draws, he's the guy you want out to defend a lead or take what could be a game changing draw. He scores goals and produces despite how he's deployed, he makes life easier for every other center on the roster. 

 

He's the player management should have prioritized, not Miller. 

Not only the season but the future of this core. Trading Horvat there’s simply no way in hell the Canucks can replace a 2c and find a capable 3c within the next couple years of whatever remains of Millers prime. Also there’s 0 indication miller would be able to find chemistry with EP again. Otherwise they would have been back together already. I’ve said it if we move Horvat, Miller will have to go as well and we go full rebuild.. and if that’s the plan.. better do it now so we can tank the rest of the season for best chance at a top pick rather than wait till TDL and then end up with a middle of the back 12-16 pick

[Gawdzukes]

5 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

I was thinking about what made our 2011 team work so well, everyone just knew their role so well.

 

Henrik was the offence only center, we didn't really worry about the 2 way ability and Burrows kinda worked as the 2 way guy on that line.

Kesler was the 2 way beast.

Malhotra was the defensive center that could chip in.

Lapierre was the pest.

 

Maybe we need to find players that fit the roles better than just upside?

Couldn't agree more. We've been collecting pretty assets as compared to building a team lately.

[BPA]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

He hasn’t looked good ever as a center ever. He puts up the production but his defensive side is non existent it’s only whenever he feels like it which is like 10% of the time. 
 

those that were arguing bo is worth less than 6.5 coz he’s a 3c so does that change now because he’s technically the 1c? As long as miller is on his line he’s going to be considered the 1c. EP is more the 2c atm

Shush.

 

Posters have pigeonholed him to be a 3c.  And only worth $6.5M tops.  But…Miller is on his line now…so does that make Miller a 3rd liner with a future cap hit of $8M???  
 

 

[NHL97OneTimer]

6 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

I was thinking about what made our 2011 team work so well, everyone just knew their role so well.

 

Henrik was the offence only center, we didn't really worry about the 2 way ability and Burrows kinda worked as the 2 way guy on that line.

Kesler was the 2 way beast.

Malhotra was the defensive center that could chip in.

Lapierre was the pest.

 

Maybe we need to find players that fit the roles better than just upside?

Absolutely. The team just worked cohesively and was utilized for the roles they played.  But I'd say the lines had identity every bit as the players.  Some players could pop up or down and change the role they played beautifully vs playing the same style on a different line.  Guys were brought to the time for specific roles (Lapierre, Malhotra).  

 

Henrik was probably an under-rated 2-way C.  Not as good away from the puck as Kesler, but the other lines had to actually get the puck away from the cycle to create any offence.  Oh how much we miss seeing set plays from the Naslund era and the Sedins era.  

[Coconuts]

17 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Absolutely. The team just worked cohesively and was utilized for the roles they played.  But I'd say the lines had identity every bit as the players.  Some players could pop up or down and change the role they played beautifully vs playing the same style on a different line.  Guys were brought to the time for specific roles (Lapierre, Malhotra).  

 

Henrik was probably an under-rated 2-way C.  Not as good away from the puck as Kesler, but the other lines had to actually get the puck away from the cycle to create any offence.  Oh how much we miss seeing set plays from the Naslund era and the Sedins era.  

The most talented duo we've ever had, remarkable once in a lifetime talents and careers 

 

We'll probably never see chemistry like theirs again 

[wai_lai416]

40 minutes ago, BPA said:

Shush.

 

Posters have pigeonholed him to be a 3c.  And only worth $6.5M tops.  But…Miller is on his line now…so does that make Miller a 3rd liner with a future cap hit of $8M???  
 

 

i dunno i labeled miller ep horvat as top 6 forward i never labelled any of them 1c 2c 3c etc etc.. coz technically any of them can be on the top line at any given moment.. but fans here likes to have 3 distintive 1st line suppose to be better than the 2nd line and the 3rd line is shutdown only.. i mean how the hell do we call miller the top line when Pearson and chiasson plays on it last season at times? just like how is ep 2c when he was playing with random wingers at time last season including petans and other ahl plugs? if we just call them top 6 instead of 1st line 2nd line 3rd line.. does it make paying bo easier to digest?

[MrCanuck94]

42 minutes ago, BPA said:

Shush.

 

Posters have pigeonholed him to be a 3c.  And only worth $6.5M tops.  But…Miller is on his line now…so does that make Miller a 3rd liner with a future cap hit of $8M???  
 

 

I don't think I've seen anyone call Bo's capabilities as a 3C. He's just the third best center behind Petey and Miller.

 

Bo is a solid 2C.

 

Yes, my walk away number for a 60 point offensive center is 6.5 mill.

[wai_lai416]

21 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

I don't think I've seen anyone call Bo's capabilities as a 3C. He's just the third best center behind Petey and Miller.

 

Bo is a solid 2C.

 

Yes, my walk away number for a 60 point offensive center is 6.5 mill.

bo is an offensive center?? then better start walking away coz he ain't signing for 6.5mil and he's on pace for 54 goals 73 points prolly won't hit those numbers but he have shown he's capable to score and i wouldn't be suprise if he some how hits 40 goals on a contract year.. coz that's what players do have career number on contract years.