[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[DeNiro]

Difference between Bo and Miller I think is that Miller is the type of guy to step in and take control of his contract negotiations i.e tell his agent to get a deal done. That’s the sense I got from all his summer interviews.
 

Bo seems like the type of guy that would just sit back and let his agent take care of everything. Seems to defer to his agent every time he’s asked about contracts.

[BPA]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Difference between Bo and Miller I think is that Miller is the type of guy to step in and take control of his contract negotiations i.e tell his agent to get a deal done. That’s the sense I got from all his summer interviews.
 

Bo seems like the type of guy that would just sit back and let his agent take care of everything. Seems to defer to his agent every time he’s asked about contracts.

It might very well be that Bo needs to make the first move.  
 

If so, then I applaud JR & co for sticking to their guns and try to make a great team that is cap compliant and hopefully no more dead salary (cap).

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, BPA said:

It might very well be that Bo needs to make the first move.  

Imo, the team is the one that needs to get going on a deal.

Bo can simply walk as a free agent after this season.

Someone will pay him big dollars.

[D.B Cooper]

3 hours ago, McBackup said:

"Bo is soft. He doesn't punch back or stick up for himself or the team"

 

Here are multiple examples of Bo not being soft, fighting and sticking up for himself and the team.

 

"Oh yeah but that doesn't count."

 

Okay. Great goalpost moving. Let's trade Bo for Tom Wilson and make him captain then. 

 

Of course nothing short of a captain who gets ejected every night and personally writes a handritten note calling your mother a bitch will ever be "hard enough to play against" for people with this mindset.

I didn’t say it doesn’t count. 
I said it’s not impressive to me.  
Virtanen did as much fighting as him, and much more hitting.  
 

You don’t have to agree with me. That’s fine.  IMO, the guy is plain dry white toast. 

Zero emotion out there. Zero aggression.  

That’s not to say he isn’t a great player, but he doesn’t get me stoked on his play very often.  

For a captain, I don’t like his style of play. 

I like a Stan Smyl. Linden to an extent.  
Iginla was a fantastic leader.  
I’d take Iggy as a captain before Bo, Hank or Marcus hands down, 100% of the time.  
Not saying I’d rather have him as a player than them, but as a captain, no questions asked.  
 

[canuck73_3]

8 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

I didn’t say it doesn’t count. 
I said it’s not impressive to me.  
Virtanen did as much fighting as him, and much more hitting.  
 

You don’t have to agree with me. That’s fine.  IMO, the guy is plain dry white toast. 

Zero emotion out there. Zero aggression.  

That’s not to say he isn’t a great player, but he doesn’t get me stoked on his play very often.  

For a captain, I don’t like his style of play. 

I like a Stan Smyl. Linden to an extent.  
Iginla was a fantastic leader.  
I’d take Iggy as a captain before Bo, Hank or Marcus hands down, 100% of the time.  
Not saying I’d rather have him as a player than them, but as a captain, no questions asked.  
 

32 NHL teams would like Iggy as their captain. Those players are few and far between especially in todays NHL. Makes for good hyperbole I guess. 

[BPA]

48 minutes ago, gurn said:

Imo, the team is the one that needs to get going on a deal.

Bo can simply walk as a free agent after this season.

Someone will pay him big dollars.

Then it becomes like the Miller situation.  Either Bo signs a somewhat team friendly deal ($6.5-7M x 7-8yrs) or he gets traded.  Sucks but the Canucks shouldn’t be afraid to trade a fan favourite.  Otherwise the team may be forever in cap hell and a mediocre team.

[Devron]

15 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

32 NHL teams would like Iggy as their captain. Those players are few and far between especially in todays NHL. Makes for good hyperbole I guess. 

All these people have to do is look around the league at the Captains in todays nhl to see they live in a dream world. Any where from Small defencemen to Lady Byng winners are captains. Yes there are others like a Landeskog for instance but the captain these people want, Hell there isn’t even 32 players like that in the NHL. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

The way I see it, Boeser's contract sets a baseline/minimum for Horvat at $6.6. If an underachieving Boeser can get $6.6 per, surely a performing Horvat deserves at least that amount. Petterson was given $7.3 and Bo's numbers were similar last season. So it only makes sense to give Horvat $7 per and call it a day. Ideally $7 x 5 ... but $7 x 6 takes him to 33. Have to look at how many 32/33+ players we'll have by then. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Dr. Crossbar

[D.B Cooper]

34 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

32 NHL teams would like Iggy as their captain. Those players are few and far between especially in todays NHL. Makes for good hyperbole I guess. 

That style is my ideal captain.  
When that is the type of captain you look for….. it kinda makes sense why Bo isn’t my guy. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, McBackup said:

No he didn't

True. It was a team friendly 7 year deal. My mistake….

[Coconuts]

3 hours ago, Devron said:

I feel like some people are still living in the 80’s 

I can't help but what believe that what some people purport to want in a captain often speaks to their age and how long they've been watching hockey. I've seen it a lot over the past year, and throughout the Miller vs Horvat arguments. Some folks seem to be under the impression that anything short of an animated, rough and tumble type player with a colourful personality who's either a top 4 D or star top 6 forward isn't suited to be captain. There's also a lot of variance regarding what "heart" and "intangibles" mean. 

 

A lot of hockey fans seem to want a captain in the mold of prime Jarome Iginla or Shea Weber and those players are unicorns. Hell, there's only one Anze Kopitar and there was only Ryan Getzlaf. Iginla was also a product of his time, you almost never see top six forwards like that anymore, he's a late 90's-2010's era player and played during what was likely the last era of that rough sort of hockey. He was almost a throwback of sorts, you just don't see players with the combination of traits he had anymore, there's not a single player currently in the league with his skill set and intangibles. He was a star forward who scored 30+ goals for like ten or eleven straight years, who'd put a team on his back night in and night out, who hit like a madman and who could probably beat the tar out of anyone currently playing in a fight. But he was also the epitome of class and a really likeable guy. There's only a handful of players like him who've ever played ever. 

 

We're watching a different era of hockey, those old days aren't coming back whether older fans like it or not. Hockey players don't come up like they used to, the game has changed. 

 

Go down the list of current captains, most of them don't fit that Iginla style player mold either. Almost none of them are going to be players you see fighting or playing rough and tumble much. Some of em are big and tough by modern standards, absolutely, but as a whole expectations for a modern captain should be different than what they might have been back in the day. https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-list-of-captains/c-335526652

 

 

2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Difference between Bo and Miller I think is that Miller is the type of guy to step in and take control of his contract negotiations i.e tell his agent to get a deal done. That’s the sense I got from all his summer interviews.
 

Bo seems like the type of guy that would just sit back and let his agent take care of everything. Seems to defer to his agent every time he’s asked about contracts.

I mean.. isn't that why players pay agents..? 

 

1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said:

32 NHL teams would like Iggy as their captain. Those players are few and far between especially in todays NHL. Makes for good hyperbole I guess. 

Exactly, Iggy was a unicorn. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Coconuts

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

again i still don't get your point.. horvat have 17 goals EV vs Miller have 24 goals EV.. who plays more tougher matchup EV? Horvat or Miller? so horvat only have 7 less goals in 20 less games than Miller EV playing on the 2nd line with lesser linemates while playing against the other teams top line therefore horvat is bad EV? almost all of horvat's assist in 5v5 situation are primary assist.. what does that tell you? his linemates have 0 playmaking capability.. he also doesn't have the luxury or playing with a QH 5v5 most of the time. brock and ep on his line is very minimal.. brock is literally on JT millers line for 90% of the season 5v5 and EP was on his own line majority of the season. you talked as if they were his most consistent linemates all year.

 

so are you telling me if bo plays 82 games this season they will drop his avg number of faceoff from 22 to 18? just so he stays under 1500? bo have avg 21-22 faceoff a game the past 5 seasons.. what is so hard to understand about that? so are you saying all the future season bo will play less than 70 games or every season the NHL season would be shortened?? coz unless they change his deployment he is still going to get 21-22 draws a night? and that'll end up to be 1700-1800? since Miller's arrival his avg number of faceoff per game never really dropped?? so what the heck are you even getting at?

I'm not just talking out of my ass.  How's this for "90%" of the time:  Here are the line combos.  

 

In case reading compression is tough for you - check out how well Horvat did with EP and Brock. Then see how Miller did.  And how Pearson did. Or Garland.   This idea that Horvat can be a line driver on his own is a little foolish.   Especially given two coaches now have tried it with mixed results.   And that only Green spent any time with the failed Lotto line, which i already stated.   That line had its time in the sun but it's faded.   How many minutes did EP actually play with Miller?   Who actually drove the play? 

 

Looks like Pearson, EP and Miller to me.  Although EP and Brock looked good with Horvat so who knows.   EP Horvat Garland awful.    Last year was a total blender.    Miller did just fine with almost all his assignments and a lot of them didn't have EP and Brock. 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by IBatch

[DeNiro]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I mean.. isn't that why players pay agents..? 

Yes but at a certain point it’s your career and your future you have to take control of.
 

Agents are self interested too meaning they’re gonna push management as far as they can to maximize a contract and make the most amount of money.

 

If you let your agent push away too long the odds of you getting traded start to go up. If you’re happy in your situation and things are close enough, you need to step up and tell your agent to get a deal done. 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Yes but at a certain point it’s your career and your future you have to take control of.
 

Agents are self interested too meaning they’re gonna push management as far as they can to maximize a contract and make the most amount of money.

 

If you let your agent push away too long the odds of you getting traded start to go up. If you’re happy in your situation and things are close enough, you need to step up and tell your agent to get a deal done. 

Agents are absolutely self-serving, no question. But they're also hired to do a job and more often than not things get done. 

 

As far as I'm aware we don't know what happened with the Miller deal, I've yet to see concrete proof that it's Miller who initiated to what quickly lead to a conclusion. But it's a nice narrative. For all we know it's the Canucks who caved, or maybe both sides compromised. Bottom line is we don't know, we get tidbits through the media but most of the time even those have to be taken with a grain of salt. Most hockey players don't air their contract talk laundry in public, they'll say they want to stay with x team or that they're committed to the team, or some other generic thing of that sort. 

 

There was a lot of speculation over the summer regarding Miller but for the most part we didn't actually hear too much from him, same can be said of Bo. The difference in public perception regarding Miller and Horvat stems from time served though, given last season was Horvat's eighth season here whereas it was Miller's third. 

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, D.B Cooper said:

That style is my ideal captain.  
When that is the type of captain you look for….. it kinda makes sense why Bo isn’t my guy. 

I get what you mean, and your talking to a guy who grew up with an Iginla poster on my wall and I have an Iginla Cup Finals Patch jersey now. He was a special player. 

[wai_lai416]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

I'm not just talking out of my ass.  How's this for "90%" of the time:  Here are the line combos.  

 

In case reading compression is tough for you - check out how well Horvat did with EP and Brock. Then see how Miller did.  And how Pearson did. Or Garland.   This idea that Horvat can be a line driver on his own is a little foolish.   Especially given two coaches now have tried it with mixed results.   And that only Green spent any time with the failed Lotto line, which i already stated.   That line had its time in the sun but it's faded.   How many minutes did EP actually play with Miller?   Who actually drove the play? 

 

Looks like Pearson, EP and Miller to me.  Although EP and Brock looked good with Horvat so who knows.   EP Horvat Garland awful.    Last year was a total blender.    Miller did just fine with almost all his assignments and a lot of them didn't have EP and Brock. 

 

so all i can see is Miller have the most consistent linemate on his line almost all the time? outside of 54 mins he have either a pearson or boeser on his line at all times? 7 less EV goals in 10 less games playing majority of your 5v5 against other top lines and mostly starting in your defensive zone and he's the most useless overrated captain ever. and i dunnno whats consider fine.. literally all the lines with miller on it have the highest GA/60 with the exception of the ep horvat garland line... they literally give up as much goals as they scored..  

[DeNiro]

3 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Agents are absolutely self-serving, no question. But they're also hired to do a job and more often than not things get done. 

 

As far as I'm aware we don't know what happened with the Miller deal, I've yet to see concrete proof that it's Miller who initiated to what quickly lead to a conclusion. But it's a nice narrative. For all we know it's the Canucks who caved, or maybe both sides compromised. Bottom line is we don't know, we get tidbits through the media but most of the time even those have to be taken with a grain of salt. Most hockey players don't air their contract talk laundry in public, they'll say they want to stay with x team or that they're committed to the team, or some other generic thing of that sort. 

 

There was a lot of speculation over the summer regarding Miller but for the most part we didn't actually hear too much from him, same can be said of Bo. The difference in public perception regarding Miller and Horvat stems from time served though, given last season was Horvat's eighth season here whereas it was Miller's third. 

It was confirmed by Millers agent that he was the one that pushed to leave money on the table which is ultimately what allowed a deal to get done.

[Canuck Surfer]

12 hours ago, aGENT said:

So much drama and angst in here... I'm just patiently waiting for the extension announcement 

Less, by a lot, than in the Miller thread?

[J-Dizzle]

19 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

That style is my ideal captain.  
When that is the type of captain you look for….. it kinda makes sense why Bo isn’t my guy. 

Bo has way more in common with the style of leader Iggy was than anyone else on our team…..

Edited September 22, 2022 by J-Dizzle

[Canuck Surfer]

59 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

It was confirmed by Millers agent that he was the one that pushed to leave money on the table which is ultimately what allowed a deal to get done.

Nearly $60 Mill, over if u include this last year of his current deal, is more than what Luongo commanded.

 

Miller may have not maxxed out. Its no cheap contract I would consider truly team friendly regardless.