[Rumour] Coyotes gauging market on Jakob Chychrun

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I'm honestly not so sure.  His age, playing ability etc all indicate he'd have a full time home here within 2 seasons.

 

We'd still need an rhd, but having two Norris calibre lhd in Byram/Hughes mitigates the need for star quality pairings.

 

My thoughts exactly.  Miller is a near carbon copy or Ryan O'Reilly and look what him/Duchene got via trade.

 

He's the one guy we could/should maximize value out of

Indeed. We could probably get maximum value in return for Miller, but what kind of message are you sending when you're trading your best offensive producing player?

 

[DeNiro]

Klimovich/DiPietro

Rathbone 

2022 1st (lotto protected)

 

A lot but I feel like that would get it done.

[mll]

3 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Klimovich/DiPietro

Rathbone 

2022 1st (lotto protected)

 

A lot but I feel like that would get it done.

Every report says that the price is huge.  Friedman thinks it would be complicated for Vancouver to do it which suggests that it's going to cost more than that.  

A team trading for Chychrun gets him for 4x playoffs runs at 4.6M when cap space is so valuable and Ds his calibre are being paid double that.  

 

Jones would be the guess of the type of return - he did sign an extension but at 9.5M and is older.  The team acquiring Chychrun will have 4 runs at such a reasonable cost + the time to negotiate an extension that will kick in just when the cap is expected to go up.  

 

[KKnight]

I think he makes perfect sense for a team like Boston, but they surely don't have the assets. 

 

Chychrun, McAvoy, Carlo. Pretty good dcore. 

[N4ZZY]

12 hours ago, KKnight said:

I think he makes perfect sense for a team like Boston, but they surely don't have the assets. 

 

Chychrun, McAvoy, Carlo. Pretty good dcore. 

McAvoy probably the player that needs to go back to Arizona if they're wanting Chychrun. No way he goes less than that. 

 

[N4ZZY]

18 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Klimovich/DiPietro

Rathbone 

2022 1st (lotto protected)

 

A lot but I feel like that would get it done.

Yeah. I dunno. I don't think that'll get it done to be honest. None of those players are NHL players (yet). 

 

Rathbone is a good prospect, but he's still a prospect, hasn't proven anything in the NHL yet. 

 

DiPietro, while we love the kid, what's his ceiling in the NHL? Is he a regular backup? 

 

Klimovich is the only player that I can see living up to his potential, and becoming a middle to top six forward, assuming his development trajectory continues to move forward well. 

 

I would hate giving up that 2022 1st, as that would be a relatively high pick (especially if we missed the playoffs), and that would be a decent pick to select a defenseman in the first round, or package it to get another RHD from somewhere else. 

 

[flat land fish]

Probably something like 2023 first unprotected, 2nd rounder in one of the next 2 drafts, their choice of rathbone/klimovich, Pearson or hamonic to make the cap work.  Their choice of one of our lesser prospects ie jurmo persson uttenen or a 4th rounder one of next 3 drafts.

[N4ZZY]

11 minutes ago, flat land fish said:

2023 first unprotected

Saw this right off the bat, and I gotta say no. 

 

The thing with the Canucks right now is that we're not a Cup contender. No one in our fan base or the media could say without being laughed at, that we are a Cup contender. Hell, we're not even a playoff contender. If we were a perennial Cup contender, then I would have no issues of giving up that 1st unprotected. But 2023 season could be a disasterous season for us, and if that were the case, we'd be &^@#ed not having that 1st to lean and fall back on for the organization's sake, but also for our fans sake. 

[N4ZZY]

18 minutes ago, flat land fish said:

Probably something like 2023 first unprotected, 2nd rounder in one of the next 2 drafts, their choice of rathbone/klimovich, Pearson or hamonic to make the cap work.  Their choice of one of our lesser prospects ie jurmo persson uttenen or a 4th rounder one of next 3 drafts.

I still don't think that gets it done. 

 

Would you do this if Arizona wanted it: 

- 2023 unprotected 1st 

- 2nd rounder in 2023 & 2024

- Klimovich 

- Podkolzin

 

for Chychrun?

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by N4ZZY

[flat land fish]

I would walk away at the inclusion of podkolzin.  He will be a play driver and those guys are too hard to acquire.  
 

I think Arizona only trades if they get a big time over payment and that would probably be a 1st + blue chip prospect and some other pieces like b prospects and or draft picks.  If they like rathbone enough we might have the basis of a deal but if not we don’t likely have the chips.

[N4ZZY]

6 minutes ago, flat land fish said:

I would walk away at the inclusion of podkolzin.  He will be a play driver and those guys are too hard to acquire.  
 

I think Arizona only trades if they get a big time over payment and that would probably be a 1st + blue chip prospect and some other pieces like b prospects and or draft picks.  If they like rathbone enough we might have the basis of a deal but if not we don’t likely have the chips.

Same. I think if they're asking for Podkolzin, I'd pass. Sorry, no deal. If they want Rathbone, we can talk. 

 

[KKnight]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

McAvoy probably the player that needs to go back to Arizona if they're wanting Chychrun. No way he goes less than that. 

 

That would kind of defeat the purpose of making the deal. You want to either make your team exceptionally better, not stay status quo. 

[BarnBurner]

40 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I still don't think that gets it done. 

 

Would you do this if Arizona wanted it: 

- 2023 unprotected 1st 

- 2nd rounder in 2023 & 2024

- Klimovich 

- Podkolzin

 

for Chychrun?

 

 

No. You'd have to be out of your mind to make that deal. We can live without Chychrun, especially at that cost. 

[Me_]

44 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I still don't think that gets it done. 

 

Would you do this if Arizona wanted it: 

- 2023 unprotected 1st 

- 2nd rounder in 2023 & 2024

- Klimovich 

- Podkolzin

 

for Chychrun?

 

 

NOOOOOOOO

[rekker]

Everytime I see this thread I see "Arizona gouging market for Jacob Chycrun" as the title. It turns out that's about right, lol.

[N4ZZY]

8 hours ago, Me_ said:

NOOOOOOOO

Ditto for me as well. It would be an overpayment, but I think that’s something that the Coyotes are looking for. A team to overpay for the services of Chychrun at a very reasonable price point. My only worry is what is Chychrun going to be asking for once his current deal is over and is that worth the overpayment. 

 

[Goal:thecup]

Reader Beware: 

Long rambling ranty read.

Numbers were calculated on latest roster per capfriendly, so players like Hamonic, and Sutter, have not been included (sorry, didn't realize until after I was finished and I'm not going to redo it.)

 

There is no need to panic about our D.

As JR said, they are in an evaluating process on the whole team (and selection of management).

Part of this evaluation has to be coming up with a timeline for perennial contention.

 

That is, where do we want to be by the trade deadline, by the playoffs, by the draft, etc.

We are going to be in different positions with different expectations as we move towards ideal teams every year.

 

You cannot build an entire team on ELCs; at least I don't think it has ever been done.

But with this extremely tight cap, and just about as tight next year, we cannot afford to give up any roster players on ELCs.

 

Being in contention every year means not trading away your first (and perhaps second round) picks at all.

And we cannot afford to buy anyone in free agency, that is just a waste of money and cap space.

 

Players like Miller and Bo, on team-friendly deals are needed dearly this year and next.

It will be difficult to ice a respectable team without veterans on cap friendly deals.

 

When these deals run out, we have to be ruthless, and not let emotion determine our lineup.

It's not, "what have you done for me lately" anymore; now it's "what can you do for us in the future at a team friendly cost".

 

For example, when Minny signed Parise and Suter to huge contracts, and were so pleased with themselves, I thought they had lost it.

They haven't been any good since and are still paying to get out from under those huge deals.

 

JR & Co have to be looking at astute cost controls going forward.

Right now we have 32 million tied up in our top 6 (money wise) forwards.

And 22 million tied up in our top 3 defensemen.

(Remember, these numbers are skewed because of IR and Covid.)

We have 3 players making more than 7 million; and 6 at about 5 - 6 million.

Other than Pearson (3.25), Dickenson (2.65), and Halak (1.5), the rest are on less than a million.

 

With our current lineup we have 55% of our payroll in 12 forwards, 35% in 6 defensemen, and 10% in 2 goalies.

Will JR keep this ratio more or less the same, or is it lop-sided in any way?

 

Regardless, you can only have so many top-paid players, and since 6 of our top players are signed for 6 million or less, I do not think we can afford to trade any of them right now (unless, as JR said, it is a dollar for dollar deal).

Those 6 are: Myers, Brock, Bo, JT, Demko, and Garland; what they represent is very good value, performance per dollar.

 

What I am getting at here is this, to maintain a contending team every year, we cannot afford any expensive new contracts.

So trying to get a Dahlin, or any other stud D, will cripple the team.

 

For now, we have to sift through what we have, and do the best we can, while continuing to roll through cheap contracts until we find good performance in veterans who the current market is under-valuing.

Like we did with Schenn, and there should be other possibilities as the season plays out, but no big expensive contracts.

 

We also cannot afford to trade any of our young underpaid studs like Podz & Hogz.

Stars like them on ELCs are the most valuable players out there.

 

The next most valuable asset out there is cap space.

We need to create cap space (to clear overages, bonus payouts, etc, so we can manage the cap properly and accumulate space and not be up against it all the Marchanding time).

 

So my plan is:

 

Keep our draft picks.

Keep the kids we draft.

 

Develop them and bring them up and test them.

Sort the wheat from the chaff as they make the team and as their ELCs expire.

 

Keep our stars if they are willing to accept team friendly deals until we move out of this and next year's cap messes.

Trade them before crippling the team with stupid-huge long-term deals; do not renew favorite players to overpaid long-term contracts.

Keep veterans who see that team friendly deals allow them to stay with the club and compete every year.

 

Maintain proper portions of cap spent on each section (F, D, and G) so that we don't end up top or bottom heavy long-term.

We definitely do not need a fourth over-seven million dollar player.

We especially do not need a fourth over-six million dollar defenseman, nor of course, a third over-seven million dollar defenseman.

 

Conclusion:  Quit pining over a Top Tier RH D; we can't afford it.

 

We should take advantage of any clubs that do not see that this belt-tightening is required.

The only deals I see being done at this time of the season are trying out players that are less than a million for RHD, keeping the good ones, (e.g. Burroughs and Juulsen) and recycling the ones that don't work out.

Unless someone comes calling, and wants to overpay for someone, it is only the players under 5 million we should consider letting go this year.

This list might include: Pearson, Dickinson, Hamonic, Halak etc, and even these are good contracts and good players and at important positions (and of course Hamonic is a RD himself).

 

If we can massage our payroll into creating and saving cap space, while refusing to pay 'superstar' salaries, ride out these 2 years while still putting a team that respects itself and plays its heart out, without giving up our top draft picks or top prospects, we can stay alive for now and build a team that will contend every year, and hopefully win The Cup.

 

Last thing:  we don't need a defenseman that checks every box; i.e. doesn't have to be right-handed, big, tough, fast, smart, nice, etc all in one; there have only been a few in history with all that.  (Did you hear the commentators on the Canada/Russia Jr tilt last night?  Every Russian shoots Left and almost every Canadian too.  No wonder there are so few in the NHL.)

 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Reader Beware: 

Long rambling ranty read.

Numbers were calculated on latest roster per capfriendly, so players like Hamonic, and Sutter, have not been included (sorry, didn't realize until after I was finished and I'm not going to redo it.)

 

There is no need to panic about our D.

As JR said, they are in an evaluating process on the whole team (and selection of management).

Part of this evaluation has to be coming up with a timeline for perennial contention.

 

That is, where do we want to be by the trade deadline, by the playoffs, by the draft, etc.

We are going to be in different positions with different expectations as we move towards ideal teams every year.

 

You cannot build an entire team on ELCs; at least I don't think it has ever been done.

But with this extremely tight cap, and just about as tight next year, we cannot afford to give up any roster players on ELCs.

 

Being in contention every year means not trading away your first (and perhaps second round) picks at all.

And we cannot afford to buy anyone in free agency, that is just a waste of money and cap space.

 

Players like Miller and Bo, on team-friendly deals are needed dearly this year and next.

It will be difficult to ice a respectable team without veterans on cap friendly deals.

 

When these deals run out, we have to be ruthless, and not let emotion determine our lineup.

It's not, "what have you done for me lately" anymore; now it's "what can you do for us in the future at a team friendly cost".

 

For example, when Minny signed Parise and Suter to huge contracts, and were so pleased with themselves, I thought they had lost it.

They haven't been any good since and are still paying to get out from under those huge deals.

 

JR & Co have to be looking at astute cost controls going forward.

Right now we have 32 million tied up in our top 6 (money wise) forwards.

And 22 million tied up in our top 3 defensemen.

(Remember, these numbers are skewed because of IR and Covid.)

We have 3 players making more than 7 million; and 6 at about 5 - 6 million.

Other than Pearson (3.25), Dickenson (2.65), and Halak (1.5), the rest are on less than a million.

 

With our current lineup we have 55% of our payroll in 12 forwards, 35% in 6 defensemen, and 10% in 2 goalies.

Will JR keep this ratio more or less the same, or is it lop-sided in any way?

 

Regardless, you can only have so many top-paid players, and since 6 of our top players are signed for 6 million or less, I do not think we can afford to trade any of them right now (unless, as JR said, it is a dollar for dollar deal).

Those 6 are: Myers, Brock, Bo, JT, Demko, and Garland; what they represent is very good value, performance per dollar.

 

What I am getting at here is this, to maintain a contending team every year, we cannot afford any expensive new contracts.

So trying to get a Dahlin, or any other stud D, will cripple the team.

 

For now, we have to sift through what we have, and do the best we can, while continuing to roll through cheap contracts until we find good performance in veterans who the current market is under-valuing.

Like we did with Schenn, and there should be other possibilities as the season plays out, but no big expensive contracts.

 

We also cannot afford to trade any of our young underpaid studs like Podz & Hogz.

Stars like them on ELCs are the most valuable players out there.

 

The next most valuable asset out there is cap space.

We need to create cap space (to clear overages, bonus payouts, etc, so we can manage the cap properly and accumulate space and not be up against it all the Marchanding time).

 

So my plan is:

 

Keep our draft picks.

Keep the kids we draft.

 

Develop them and bring them up and test them.

Sort the wheat from the chaff as they make the team and as their ELCs expire.

 

Keep our stars if they are willing to accept team friendly deals until we move out of this and next year's cap messes.

Trade them before crippling the team with stupid-huge long-term deals; do not renew favorite players to overpaid long-term contracts.

Keep veterans who see that team friendly deals allow them to stay with the club and compete every year.

 

Maintain proper portions of cap spent on each section (F, D, and G) so that we don't end up top or bottom heavy long-term.

We definitely do not need a fourth over-seven million dollar player.

We especially do not need a fourth over-six million dollar defenseman, nor of course, a third over-seven million dollar defenseman.

 

Conclusion:  Quit pining over a Top Tier RH D; we can't afford it.

 

We should take advantage of any clubs that do not see that this belt-tightening is required.

The only deals I see being done at this time of the season are trying out players that are less than a million for RHD, keeping the good ones, (e.g. Burroughs and Juulsen) and recycling the ones that don't work out.

Unless someone comes calling, and wants to overpay for someone, it is only the players under 5 million we should consider letting go this year.

This list might include: Pearson, Dickinson, Hamonic, Halak etc, and even these are good contracts and good players and at important positions (and of course Hamonic is a RD himself).

 

If we can massage our payroll into creating and saving cap space, while refusing to pay 'superstar' salaries, ride out these 2 years while still putting a team that respects itself and plays its heart out, without giving up our top draft picks or top prospects, we can stay alive for now and build a team that will contend every year, and hopefully win The Cup.

 

Last thing:  we don't need a defenseman that checks every box; i.e. doesn't have to be right-handed, big, tough, fast, smart, nice, etc all in one; there have only been a few in history with all that.  (Did you hear the commentators on the Canada/Russia Jr tilt last night?  Every Russian shoots Left and almost every Canadian too.  No wonder there are so few in the NHL.)

 

 

 

 

We already have a stud D in Hughes.  He’s proven (and continues to prove) he a a far better player than Chychrun and Dahlin.  

As long as Demko outplays his opposite, we will win the majority of our games.  

[Goal:thecup]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We already have a stud D in Hughes.  He’s proven (and continues to prove) he a a far better player than Chychrun and Dahlin.  

As long as Demko outplays his opposite, we will win the majority of our games.  

And Hughes is locked up for what?  6 years?

This is big money but he is a superstar no doubt.

Thing is, we can only afford so many 7 to 8 million dollar contracts, and perhaps none over 8.

And no new big money deals this year for sure, and probably next year too.

[grandmaster]

20 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

McAvoy probably the player that needs to go back to Arizona if they're wanting Chychrun. No way he goes less than that. 

 

Arizona does not want more salary. It defeats the purpose of their fire sale. If they don't want to keep Chychrun, they surely won’t be interested in paying McAvoy’s contract! 

Edited December 24, 2021 by grandmaster