[Signing] Sharks re-sign Tomas Hertl

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Problem being, you likely have to be more patient, not less, if we retain Miller.

 

IMO, extending Miller is pretty much a death sentence for this current team. No cap or assets to fill those holes and stagnating and mediocre bubble team until we give up and tear it down, wasting years of the kids windows.

so like the last 5 decades? 

 

I don't see it as quite so dire, I do think we can see other moves that get us there. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

4 minutes ago, JM_ said:

so like the last 5 decades? 

 

I don't see it as quite so dire, I do think we can see other moves that get us there. 

Haven't you heard? If we don't move him for the scraps being offered now and choose to resign him instead, this franchise is doomed for the next decade. We will become the Coyotes of tomorrow and and the franchise will probably be sold. 

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

so like the last 5 decades? 

 

I don't see it as quite so dire, I do think we can see other moves that get us there. 

Yes, exactly. Repeating the same mistakes, not building properly.

 

Shuffling the other deck chairs doesn't clear enough cap. You move most of those guys and you're bringing in similar money just to replace them. All while also spending assets we need to move guys like Dickinson or Poolman.

 

There's no way getting around it. You keep Miller at +/- $9m and we have to spend young depth and picks to make the cap space to do that, we then lose more depth over time by paying more money to cling to the current, hole filled, bubble team we have now.

 

By all means, barring a Godfather offer, he's not getting moved this TDL. But there's no question that we should be moving him and not committing $9m to an eventual 3rd liner, this summer.

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Haven't you heard? If we don't move him for the scraps being offered now and choose to resign him instead, this franchise is doomed for the next decade. We will become the Coyotes of tomorrow and and the franchise will probably be sold. 

Feel free to quote the post where people are suggesting that.

 

[stawns]

4 hours ago, DeNiro said:

On that same note no way Boeser gets 7.5.

 

6.5 max.

Still way too much.

 

Miller is going to be $9m, minimum, probably $10m to stay in Canada.

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Haven't you heard? If we don't move him for the scraps being offered now and choose to resign him instead, this franchise is doomed for the next decade. We will become the Coyotes of tomorrow and and the franchise will probably be sold. 

What kind of scraps are people suggesting?

[48MPHSlapShot]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Feel free to quote the post where people are suggesting that.

 

Welp, I don't feel like going back through hundreds of pages, but it was absolutely suggested that we take the rumored Kratsov/Lundqvist/1st package for Miller, which for a player of Miller's caliber is absolutely scraps.

 

No team will give up their A prospects with the league economy looking the way it does. If im wrong, great. Sell him. But it's not happening. Potential impact players on ELCs are far too valuable to contending teams, which would be the only teams interested in Miller to begin with. Any suggestion of moving him now is automatically a suggestion that we dump him for less than he's worth. 

 

At the end of the day, I'll trust Rutherford's judgement over anyone on this board, regardless of what he does.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Welp, I don't feel like going back through hundreds of pages, but it was absolutely suggested that we take the rumored Kratsov/Lundqvist/1st package for Miller, which for a player of Miller's caliber is absolutely scraps.

 

No team will give up their A prospects with the league economy looking the way it does. If im wrong, great. Sell him. But it's not happening. Potential impact players on ELCs are far too valuable to contending teams, which would be the only teams interested in Miller to begin with. Any suggestion of moving him now is automatically a suggestion that we dump him for less than he's worth. 

 

At the end of the day, I'll trust Rutherford's judgement over anyone on this board, regardless of what he does.

So no one will give up their grade A prospects because of the league economy, but the Canucks should sign a 30 year old to a $9m+ contract that will take him to his late thirties..........so, that's a good idea?

[-Vintage Canuck-]

J.T. Miller’s agent tweeted this.  

 

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

32 minutes ago, JM_ said:

so like the last 5 decades? 

 

I don't see it as quite so dire, I do think we can see other moves that get us there. 

That seems to be the general consensus every time and it hasn't worked yet. It's the main reason I'm open to a more thoughtful, directed, and measured approach. Especially with new management. They should be given a chance to shape the team with their vision in mind.

 

If JT Miller didn't already play on our team I don't think I'd be currently dreaming of signing him UFA, even in the wildest of scenarios. Too many times we opt for the path of least resistance. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just now, stawns said:

So no one will give up their grade A prospects because of the league economy, but the Canucks should sign a 30 year old to a $9m+ contract that will take him to his late thirties..........so, that's a good idea?

The league economy won't look the same when the contract nears it's end. 9 million dollars in 2022 isn't the same as 9 million dollars in 2030. There was a post a week or so ago examining these types of contracts, and it indicated that players of Miller's caliber can generally continue to produce at a top 6 clip well into their mid 30's. If we don't get the package we're looking for, I'm willing to take the chance. I get the distinct impression that Rutherford is too, since Miller has essentially been taken off the trade market for now. I trust one of the most successful NHL execs of this era more than anyone on this board.

[sassbs]

1 hour ago, RWJC said:

Apparently Harley Race was a real tough SOB outside the industry too. If he felt you were too stiff, you paid a price.

I don’t know who that is.  I thought the black dude was coco beware lol 

[tas]

29 minutes ago, stawns said:

Still way too much.

 

Miller is going to be $9m, minimum, probably $10m to stay in Canada.

 

[Coconuts]

43 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yes, exactly. Repeating the same mistakes, not building properly.

 

Shuffling the other deck chairs doesn't clear enough cap. You move most of those guys and you're bringing in similar money just to replace them. All while also spending assets we need to move guys like Dickinson or Poolman.

 

There's no way getting around it. You keep Miller at +/- $9m and we have to spend young depth and picks to make the cap space to do that, we then lose more depth over time by paying more money to cling to the current, hole filled, bubble team we have now.

 

By all means, barring a Godfather offer, he's not getting moved this TDL. But there's no question that we should be moving him and not committing $9m to an eventual 3rd liner, this summer.

Agreed, post is spot on. 

 

Fans aren't patient? Well, what else have we been doing? It's not as if being impatient has worked for us. And like, considering this franchise hasn't won a cup in 50+ years you think we'd be used to being patient by now.

 

27 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

J.T. Miller’s agent tweeted this.  

 

 

 

I know he's taking the piss but there's still an element of truth to that tweet. 

 

Plus, I posted the gif first! 

[Gawdzukes]

54 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Welp, I don't feel like going back through hundreds of pages, but it was absolutely suggested that we take the rumored Kratsov/Lundqvist/1st package for Miller, which for a player of Miller's caliber is absolutely scraps.

No team will give up their A prospects with the league economy looking the way it does. If im wrong, great. Sell him. But it's not happening. 

At the end of the day, I'll trust Rutherford's judgement over anyone on this board, regardless of what he does.

Well this is the only thing you said that makes sense here. No offence intended.

 

You don't know what they're offering at all or what they'll give up, or what their motivations for doing so might be. You keep stating people are willing to take scraps, no one is though. You're citing the very worst cdc talking point offer from over a month ago, and it always included a fourth roster player or similar.

 

But you're right it's JR (Allvin's) call and if he deems it acceptable so will I. Right now with Miller's play I can't see them accepting that offer you recalled though. Currently I don't think anyone else can either. Who knows what will happen in the summer or later though. By the time we get down to trading him his value might regress closer to that package you listed. The longer we wait the more risk we take.

 

Having said that I will admit it's pretty hard to actually not say F#$k it and just re-sign him. He's playing out of this world right now. And then I remember we don't really have a say anyway.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[Alienhuggyflow]

5 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I think this means 9M minimum for Miller. Hertl is like a Miller-lite. He’s below a PPG this year. 

If JT gets 8 years it would have to be done to facilitate a cheaper cap. 4-5 years I could absolutely see 9 for him, 7- 8 years takes him to 37-38 with the likelihood of him going on LTIR, so that should bring the avv down quite a bit.  

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, Alienhuggyflow said:

If JT gets 8 years it would have to be done to facilitate a cheaper cap. 4-5 years I could absolutely see 9 for him, 7- 8 years takes him to 37-38 with the likelihood of him going on LTIR, so that should bring the avv down quite a bit.  

If Hertl can get 8x8 I see Miller getting around 9M x 7-8 years bare minimum. He's playing like a 10M forward right now.

[RWJC]

26 minutes ago, sassbs said:

I don’t know who that is.  I thought the black dude was coco beware lol 

Haha, Harley Race is an industry legend. old school wrestler and genuine hard a$$. 
 

 

 

The other fella is another legend and was huge in the 80s…the Junkyard Dog. 

 

[T.Demko]

4 minutes ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

If JT gets 8 years it would have to be done to facilitate a cheaper cap. 4-5 years I could absolutely see 9 for him, 7- 8 years takes him to 37-38 with the likelihood of him going on LTIR, so that should bring the avv down quite a bit.  

Yes, the brought down cost is 9 mill.  4 to 5 years you're looking at double digits, although I hardly doubt Miller would listen to anything below 7 years with the way he is building his value up right now.  A player of his caliber will have the absolute upper hand in any negotiation.

 

I get people want Miller to stay, and no one is arguing how valuable he is to this team, or to any team for that matter.  However, that 8mill 5 years ain't happening, unless he absolutely bombs next year. 

 

If you were in Miller's shoe, with no root to the city, would you leave millions of dollars on the table, when this is your first and last chance to secure you and your family's financial future? 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

You don't just "replace" Miller. 

 

You move him to help fill our plentiful other current and upcoming holes at 1RD, 2RD, 3LD, 3C, LW etc with younger, cheaper, faster players than we currently have in those spots now. You do that, while clearing cap so that you have the opportunity to trade for the "next Miller" when he becomes available, and better fits with our core's window instead of paying $9m for a 3rd liner, in the meat of that window.

@Coconuts This is one thing that's jumping out at me these days. The amount of people that are willing to carry a bad $9 million contract for 4-6 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Before it's even signed.