Elias Pettersson Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: So we again retool, just like the directions given to Benning. Hopefully we don't spend another 8 years spinning the tires. Demko is a UFA in 4 years. Hughes in 5 years. That’s our window. If nothing happens during that time both those players are as good as gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Just now, Trebreh said: did we trade the 3rd we acquired from the Hamonic deal? No we traded the Jets apparently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDangles Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 18 minutes ago, RolexSub said: Fair comment as even good players get traded but wouldn't you agree we could of been even better off without it!! I mean we would of have a $3M cap plus not giving away a high 3rd pick. Too early to tell. I'm holding onto the belief that with 5 new minds in head office all from salary cap, scouting and analytics backgrounds... That they believe Dermott + $1.5m is better than just $3m... They probably figure that Dermott has more to offer. I'm a pretty cocky guy but I gotta think they know more than I do... And definitely more than CDC! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Trebreh said: did we trade the 3rd we acquired from the Hamonic deal? No that pick got used enough. It was the one we got for Schmidt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: I agreed with a Provost post that was on this angle as well. Im willing (as usual) to give management a chance to prove they see something in Dermott that helps the team… but when you shed 3 mil and gain a 3rd moving out Hamonic, why immediately lose the pick + half the salary adding a (thus far) mediocre piece in Dermott? If JB did something like this people would be whinging on and on about that. I get that new management is going to get a bit more rope but let’s not pretend Benning would have been slagged for the Dermott pick up. JB did exactly the same at the start of his tenure. I have no doubt this is the direction from our owner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, eeeeergh said: I mean- we can disagree, but teams have followed that formula for a long time of a pure offensive defenseman partnered with a willie mitchell/tanev type defensive defenseman. That's what Hughes was until this season came around, and I didn't hear anyone arguing last season that Hughes didn't belong in the NHL. We can dispute whether Rielly is worth 7.5m/year, but with him on the ice, the Leafs outscore their opposition, he quarterbacks their powerplay, and is nearly a point per game. There's no world in which that's "not an NHL player". You just deploy him differently than you could a defenseman with a more balanced skillset. Even last year, Hughes was nowhere close to as bad as Rielly is in his own zone. There are very few players in the history of the sport who were as terrible defensively as Rielly is. Even worse, by letting him play, you create a culture where playing like complete trash in your own zone is acceptable. The correct deployment for Rielly is the AHL until he learns how to play defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: So we again retool, just like the directions given to Benning. Hopefully we don't spend another 8 years spinning the tires. I trust a JR retool much more than a Benning retool. Let's remember that Benning "retooled" by going after players that looked good even though their analytics suggested they were on terminal decline. Benning openly admitted that the person he disagreed with the most in the front office was their analytics guy. There's also advantages to a retool right now, you have OEL who's still serviceable in the top 4 (though obv not worth his 7m), Demko heavily discounted, Petey on a reasonable contract, Miller 4m/year discounted, Hughes 2m/year discounted. The question is will JR/PA be able to move enough of our bad value money out, and use our slower but still productive guys to get speedier to play Boudreau's style. I think they can. Good start moving Hamonic. Now they've gotta do Myers, Pearson, Dickinson. Then use Boeser to get faster, pick up a quality UFA, and snipe a european free agent that can play at a 3-4m value on an entry level contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Demko is a UFA in 4 years. Hughes in 5 years. That’s our window. If nothing happens during that time both those players are as good as gone. Well, if they don't win in the next five years, perhaps they SHOULD be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Just now, eeeeergh said: I trust a JR retool much more than a Benning retool. Let's remember that Benning "retooled" by going after players that looked good even though their analytics suggested they were on terminal decline. Benning openly admitted that the person he disagreed with the most in the front office was their analytics guy. I trust actual hockey people much more than analytics dweebs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, AlphaNuck said: Would rather have kept the cap space to sign something of significance during free agency I agree. A free agent target would have been better. Well I'm very skeptical but I guess I'll give him a chance. It's hard to evaluate anyone in TO with the style they play. Edited March 20, 2022 by Gawdzukes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Dazzle said: So you are retooling with the foundation that Benning built - does this mean he built something that the Canucks could work with, or did he "ruin" the franchise as some people like to think? Miller's good, but we'll end up loving an asset so much that we'll forget to get something back for them. This is essentially what happened under Gillis and Benning regimes. The thing is, if we didn't have anything to base off of, we'd be in last place. We clearly have some skill on the team. The fact that just changing our coach made such an impact shows the potential that there is. Since Boudreau came in, we've been effectively a "playoff team", just not in the playoffs because of the record we had before then. Also, we are in a situation where our need to make the playoffs is a little more urgent than when Benning came in. When Benning came in, it would have actually been nice had a rebuild occured. Obviously it didn't, but it's clear it was a different situation than we are in now. Now, aside from 1 actually good run in scaring Vegas, we haven't really seen playoffs in years; therefore, the situation's a little more dire at the moment and I question whether a rebuild's even feasible at this point. Then, there's the question of what actually does make a good team? Are we going for the perfect team or just a team that does well enough to make a potential run each year? There is a differece in my mind as the former is less sustainable than the later due to cap, etc. But, if we do make a decision, then there's the question of how do we even define what our decision entails? How do we even know whether or not Miller's right or not for us? Does anyone even know the answer to this question? I kind of doubt it. So then there's the next best thing: what's available out there for us? What trades can we make to improve what we have? We don't have the luxury of choosing exactly who we want on our team. We can try and get those players, and a lot of fans here will create such proposals, but there are 31 other teams in this league which seems easily forgotten. I think what it comes down to is we have some control, but a lot of this is also going to depend on the market. I don't think we have the luxury to choose whether Miller's right for us or not because you don't just simply replace Miller. These are decisions that can affect the outcome of this team for years and if we just dismiss such a player.... we did that with Neely just as an example. It doesn't always work out. lol Edited March 20, 2022 by The Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Just now, Gawdzukes said: I agree. A free agent target would have been better. Well I'm very skeptic but I guess I'll give him a chance. It's hard to evaluate anyone in TO with the style they play. Free agency is where you overpay. We got a young cost controlled player who they hope has more upside to give. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, eeeeergh said: I trust a JR retool much more than a Benning retool. Let's remember that Benning "retooled" by going after players that looked good even though their analytics suggested they were on terminal decline. Benning openly admitted that the person he disagreed with the most in the front office was their analytics guy. There's also advantages to a retool right now, you have OEL who's still serviceable in the top 4 (though obv not worth his 7m), Demko heavily discounted, Petey on a reasonable contract, Miller 4m/year discounted, Hughes 2m/year discounted. The question is will JR/PA be able to move enough of our bad value money out, and use our slower but still productive guys to get speedier to play Boudreau's style. I think they can. Good start moving Hamonic. Now they've gotta do Myers, Pearson, Dickinson. Then use Boeser to get faster, pick up a quality UFA, and snipe a european free agent that can play at a 3-4m value on an entry level contract. It’s very simple. Dermott fits better in Boudreau’s system than Hamonic. Can’t get any more simplistic than that. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Demko is a UFA in 4 years. Hughes in 5 years. That’s our window. If nothing happens during that time both those players are as good as gone. Sounds exaclty like what was said when Benning got here only it was the Twins, and Edler who we had to retool around quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Demko is a UFA in 4 years. Hughes in 5 years. That’s our window. If nothing happens during that time both those players are as good as gone. I agree, that the window is Demkos' contract. I would argue: go after the draft hard during the first two years of Demkos' contract, since these two drafts are looking really deep. Anyways, it is done - but these type of moves are looking very familiar from seasons past. Kings re tool has gone very well cause Blake stuck to a two/three years of tanking by focusing on building up, organizational depth through drafting & development. Kings rebuild is done and the Canucks, is starting another re tool - smh. Edited March 20, 2022 by ShawnAntoski 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 minute ago, King Heffy said: Even last year, Hughes was nowhere close to as bad as Rielly is in his own zone. There are very few players in the history of the sport who were as terrible defensively as Rielly is. Even worse, by letting him play, you create a culture where playing like complete trash in your own zone is acceptable. The correct deployment for Rielly is the AHL until he learns how to play defence. The numbers disagree with you - Hughes had a worse Goals against/60 minutes than Rielly (by a LOT). Rielly was in the top third in the league, while Hughes was at the very bottom. Hughes was also on the ice for 2 more high danger scoring chances against / 60 minutes than Hughes. Rielly was the better player defensively by far last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said: Well, if they don't win in the next five years, perhaps they SHOULD be gone. And how do you replace them if they leave? You are looking at having to draft in the top 5 for several years in order to replace our elite players. A rebuild is not easy. If it doesn’t work you could be rebuilding for a decade or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 I like the trade we save cap space 1.5 million and Dermott 25, 6'0, 205 -- Hamonic 31,6'2, 205.. I like Dermott he is faster, has more upside and not injured like Hamonic... New management team win this deal and maybe 3rd rounder now be Ottawa's pick early 3rd round now.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 10 minutes ago, EddieVedder said: If quinn, dermott, hunt, rathbone are playing that gives us the smallest defense in history of hockey. Thinking Rathbone is being dealt soon along with hunt. Dermott replaces Hunt and at 6' @ 202lbs he isn't anywhere near small. I don't know why people are so bothered about this trade. He's just a 3rd pairing guy to beef up the weak left side. All year, they have been playing Hunt or RD guys. Once BB gets hold of him, he will be a solid addition. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, King Heffy said: I trust actual hockey people much more than analytics dweebs. Great, so does Benning and look where that got him. The best teams in the league right now were built by analytics dweebs, the worst rosters built (like ours) were people who went on the "eye test" like Benning. Here's Benning's quote on why he picked up Gudbranson despite the horrendous analytics Edited March 20, 2022 by eeeeergh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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