JM_ Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Just now, VegasCanuck said: I see a lot of people panicking about us picking up Dermot, here's my take on it. He saves us 1.5 million on cap while playing bottom pairing, like Harmonic. Just because he wasn't being effective in the Leafs organization, doesn't mean he won't respond here to new coaching and systemswhat do we know about JR approach? He likes to mix things up and try players and if they don't fit, he moves them again. I like the two trades, gives our D a little different look and frees up cap space There will be more moves tomorrow, would be shocked if we're done. ^ pretty much this. Save enough cap that if he shows badly the rest of this year and camp, he can be buried for depth or be waiver fodder. If he's good, its a nice win. I do wonder how much input our new stats department had on this, that could be why he was targeted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: I see a lot of people panicking about us picking up Dermot, here's my take on it. He saves us 1.5 million on cap while playing bottom pairing, like Harmonic. Just because he wasn't being effective in the Leafs organization, doesn't mean he won't respond here to new coaching and systemswhat do we know about JR approach? He likes to mix things up and try players and if they don't fit, he moves them again. I like the two trades, gives our D a little different look and frees up cap space There will be more moves tomorrow, would be shocked if we're done. Not really the player but the type of deal cause the teams core is not ready & set. When the core is ready and the farm is able to provide depth - then acquiring the Dermott's or Zacha types are easy. He will be an rfa, after next year and will be looking for a raise. Edited March 20, 2022 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 49 minutes ago, Alflives said: This has our owner written all over it. this is exactly what Benning did. picks for already developed guys in hopes of retooling instead of rebuilding. get to the new group faster than developing from our own picks. The direction is still the one Aquilini wants. He just hired an new guy to do it for him that's the only difference. I disagree. This has Rachel Doerre written all over it. JR said we were going to become an analytics-driven team. This is the first of many such moves, imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: What would the alternative be, unless you're wiling to go full scorched earth and we start talking about moving core guys like Petey, Hughes, Horvat and Demko? We have a core that is very young. No need to do scorched earth. Need to support those young guys over the next decade with ELC's (just a few) so we have cap room to bring in experienced guys too, who are good, too. Creates a 10 year window instead of a two year one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luongianone Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: And how long have we been "retooling" without gaining any traction? We have three great young players. We could support those three for a decade with good young ELC guys if we had lots of picks. "Hey Petey, Quinn, Demko. We're gonna suck ass for a couple more years and then when a couple prospects have developed you'll have a real team! So it's just another 4-5 years on top of the 8 garbage years we've given you and we'll be good. Please re-sign!" Oh ya, that's gonna work out well. Travis Dermott is making 1.5M at 24 years old. He has solid NHL potential. This was a good get, simple as that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebreh Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 If we could trade Brock for Marino + our defence doesn't look too bad Ekman-Larsson - Myers Hughes - Marino Dermott - Schenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: And how do you replace them if they leave? You are looking at having to draft in the top 5 for several years in order to replace our elite players. A rebuild is not easy. If it doesn’t work you could be rebuilding for a decade or more. Neither were drafted top 5. I dont think this team hinges on demko and Hughes. You need a core of about 6 players to have any success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 minute ago, luongianone said: "Hey Petey, Quinn, Demko. We're gonna suck ass for a couple more years and then when a couple prospects have developed you'll have a real team! So it's just another 4-5 years on top of the 8 garbage years we've given you and we'll be good. Please re-sign!" Oh ya, that's gonna work out well. Travis Dermott is making 1.5M at 24 years old. He has solid NHL potential. This was a good get, simple as that. Why does not giving up a third for Dermott cause us to "suck ass"? We need to be adding and keeping picks. If we are planning on keeping Miller then we will need ELC's coming in during that contract who can contribute. That means we need a lot of picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Just now, ShawnAntoski said: I agree, that the window is Demkos' contract. I would argue, go after the draft hard during the first two years of Demkos' contract. But these type of moves are looking very familiar. Kings re tool has gone very well cause Blake stuck to a two/three years of tanking by focusing on building up, organizational depth through drafting & development. They also had an older core that are still performing to build around. Going hard on the draft will not equal players for us before Demkos deal is done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: We have a core that is very young. No need to do scorched earth. Need to support those young guys over the next decade with ELC's (just a few) so we have cap room to bring in experienced guys too, who are good, too. Creates a 10 year window instead of a two year one. Petey and Bo have both indicated that they're not willing to go through a rebuild. "I want to play for a winner" If that's to be taken at face value, we're likely looking at moving core pieces anyways. They're not just assets, they're human beings, and they want to win. I doubt Petey is going to be appeased when someone tells him "Don't worry, in 5 years this is all going to be worth it! I promise!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, eeeeergh said: Great, so does Benning and look where that got him. The best teams in the league right now were built by analytics dweebs, the worst rosters built (like ours) were people who went on the "eye test" like Benning. Here's Benning's quote on why he picked up Gudbranson despite the horrendous analytics I'd take Erik Gudbrandson as my third pairing RHD at $1.95M cap hit any day of the week. Schenn as the third pairing RHD at $850K is just as good, if not better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 https://external-preview.redd.it/pZICxz_fAqDUIa5sfgloqpROti5E8RE-a_uTJqqTOGA.jpg?auto=webp&s=1320fd083ef8f9c4de789cfc0bf339d71acefb6b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryElf Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Too much overthinking in this group. We trade Hamonic, someone who has not been there for us for a variety of reasons this year, for a younger, cheaper, potentially better player that gives Rathbone more time to hone his defensive game at a lower level. He's not ready to play in the NHL, this gives us some much needed flexibility. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 10 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said: Free agency is also where you get outbid for the players who fit your budget. Or else you blow your budget and bring in a high profile guy whose best years are probably behind him, thus dooming yourself to two or three seasons of "what the hell was I thinking". Exactly. Which is why I hope we acquire players and blue chip prospects in trades. Much better to fill holes that way. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said: Not really the player but the type of deal cause the teams core is not ready & set. When the core is ready and the farm is able to provide depth - then acquiring the Dermott's or Zacha types are easy. Exaclty! Build the farm and collect the picks first. Adding 25 year old guys at the cost of picks isn't helping build a long term winner. It's hoping for a quick fix that might work but usually doesn't. And will mean a shorter window. If Dermott plays well, then he will earn more money. What do we do in a year and a half when he earns a 4 mil deal? Trade him for a third and do it all over again. This philosophy is not a way to build a consistent winner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: They also had an older core that are still performing to build around. Going hard on the draft will not equal players for us before Demkos deal is done. Top 10 in these two drafts can produce a roster player in key positions, whilst, building depth in the farm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, EddieVedder said: Neither were drafted top 5. I dont think this team hinges on demko and Hughes. You need a core of about 6 players to have any success. True but Hughes is basically a top 5 pick. A couple of teams happened to pass on him but he was always a top 5 talent. Demko is a goalie so you can obviously acquire an elite goalie out of the top 5. My point was if you are going full rebuild you need to be picking in the top 5 for several years. We were there for the most part. Some guys panned out quite well. Others like Virtanen and Juolevi did not. Which is why we are where we are now. Which is why if you go full rebuild you better make sure all of your top picks pan out. If they don’t you will be in trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 minute ago, bigbadcanucks said: I'd take Erik Gudbrandson as my third pairing RHD at $1.95M cap hit any day of the week. Schenn as the third pairing RHD at $850K is just as good, if not better. Agreed Guddy is a perfectly reasonable third pairing defenseman, but Benning's "eye test" projected him as a top-4 savior to our defensive woes, and was worth losing Jared McCann, a 2nd, and a 4th round pick for him. That's the problem with people who use the "eye test", they're clouded by their biases, and dont realize that they miss a ton of what the player is actually doing. Analytics tell a much more complete picture, and the best teams in the league rely much more heavily on them than preconceived notions of what a "winning" hockey team looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) Only players younger than dermott on the current roster are... 1. Hogs 2. Pods 3. Huggy 4. EP40 5. BB6 Edited March 20, 2022 by coryberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: A decade? I don’t think so. Demko will be gone in 4 years unless we are competing. Quinn will be going to New Jersey in 5 years, maybe regardless whether we are competing or not. So exaclty like when Benning came and we needed to retool around the Twins and Edler. What's the difference? This philosophy is short sighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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