Allvin & Rutherford Press Summary

[iceman64]

2 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Thought we should just clarify that the $3M thats comes off the books for Luongo next year will pretty well all be eatened-up by the additional ~$2M+ we have to pay next year for getting rid of that sub-standard player Uncle Jim wasted another 1st round pick on (Jake "The Ripper") and for Holtby which uncle Jim tried to replace with an even worse B/U goalie (Ha-Lack) who could only win 4 out of 17 games played!   Unfortunately, it's just another in the long list of bad legacies Uncle Jim leaves behind amongst the dozens of others that will haunt us for years to come.

Here are the ACTUAL Facts & Details so now you know:

DEAD CAP
BUYOUT HISTORY (2)								2021-22	2022-23	2023-24
Braden Holtby								$500,000	$1,900,000
Jake Virtanen								$50,000	$500,000
TOTAL								$550,000	$2,400,000

RECAPTURE PENALTY								2021-22	2022-23
Roberto Luongo								$3,035,212

No matter, I think you're on to something about freeing up cap space with "a trade or two" asc that is about the only option JR has this offseason to free up $, and so when/if Brock,  JT (possibly Garland and likely Hoglander) are traded, that should free up enough $ to possibly afford one really good RHD and a reasonable forward or two and we'll likely get our first Round draft pick back too so we can help restock the cupboards that Uncle jim left High & dry - maybe more.  That's a brilliant idea you came up with.

 

As for your theory on players not wanting to play in Canada, that's a tough call because its quite personal for each player plus they get payed in U$D anyways and pay taxes based only where they play - so it' not completely bad on the tax front playing in Canada - although not the best.   Besides, I think some players are wanting to play in a hockey market and a beautiful place like Vancouver where there are more (but not all - as you know) NORMAL people, rather than some backwater hillbilly town in the deep south of the USA where everyone is paranoid about government conspiracies, taxes, Area-51 and whether the earth is really flat as there are a lot of "different" people way down there - to say it politely (Haha!!!).  I'm sure you can appreciate all those fine points amongst others that the players contemplate before signing anywhere. 

So you pointed out the only thing we have in favour over some of the next tier destinations because that's it's arguably in the top 5 most beautiful cities in the world BUT at the end of the day, money is it, that's why it isn't a theory, as much as I wish it wasn't, believe me, I used to pay tax on a business and not anywhere near a player's salary but I got hosed in taxes and it gets worse the more you make so you know where this is going, to sign players, you have to balance out the scale as best you can but it always equals over paying and it always has, this is why we're small market compared to the big USA teams. Stevie Y, Gretz, and tons of other Canadians actually did Capt for the big teams too! Why? Better money.. 

 

[iceman64]

10 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Thought we should just clarify that the $3M thats comes off the books for Luongo next year will pretty well all be eatened-up by the additional ~$2M+ we have to pay next year for getting rid of that sub-standard player Uncle Jim wasted another 1st round pick on (Jake "The Ripper") and for Holtby which uncle Jim tried to replace with an even worse B/U goalie (Ha-Lack) who could only win 4 out of 17 games played!   Unfortunately, it's just another in the long list of bad legacies Uncle Jim leaves behind amongst the dozens of others that will haunt us for years to come.

Here are the ACTUAL Facts & Details so now you know:

DEAD CAP
BUYOUT HISTORY (2)								2021-22	2022-23	2023-24
Braden Holtby								$500,000	$1,900,000
Jake Virtanen								$50,000	$500,000
TOTAL								$550,000	$2,400,000

RECAPTURE PENALTY								2021-22	2022-23
Roberto Luongo								$3,035,212

No matter, I think you're on to something about freeing up cap space with "a trade or two" asc that is about the only option JR has this offseason to free up $, and so when/if Brock,  JT (possibly Garland and likely Hoglander) are traded, that should free up enough $ to possibly afford one really good RHD and a reasonable forward or two and we'll likely get our first Round draft pick back too so we can help restock the cupboards that Uncle jim left High & dry - maybe more.  That's a brilliant idea you came up with.

 

As for your theory on players not wanting to play in Canada, that's a tough call because its quite personal for each player plus they get payed in U$D anyways and pay taxes based only where they play - so it' not completely bad on the tax front playing in Canada - although not the best.   Besides, I think some players are wanting to play in a hockey market and a beautiful place like Vancouver where there are more (but not all - as you know) NORMAL people, rather than some backwater hillbilly town in the deep south of the USA where everyone is paranoid about government conspiracies, taxes, Area-51 and whether the earth is really flat as there are a lot of "different" people way down there - to say it politely (Haha!!!).  I'm sure you can appreciate all those fine points amongst others that the players contemplate before signing anywhere. 

Oh and the JV thing?!  He does have all the tools but no other GM has a crystal ball either and every GM in history can't tell if any other players who don't come in and rock the show, as in gretz  mcdavid Ovie type, you can never know how they will turn out, and JV was rankes in the top 10 by pretty much everyone who put out a piece on the draft. So drafting is a crap shoot at best.. so you can't tell me every other GM today or ever has been, will be, loses on drafts that don't work out.. c'mon..

[iceman64]

25 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Thought we should just clarify that the $3M thats comes off the books for Luongo next year will pretty well all be eatened-up by the additional ~$2M+ we have to pay next year for getting rid of that sub-standard player Uncle Jim wasted another 1st round pick on (Jake "The Ripper") and for Holtby which uncle Jim tried to replace with an even worse B/U goalie (Ha-Lack) who could only win 4 out of 17 games played!   Unfortunately, it's just another in the long list of bad legacies Uncle Jim leaves behind amongst the dozens of others that will haunt us for years to come.

Here are the ACTUAL Facts & Details so now you know:

DEAD CAP
BUYOUT HISTORY (2)								2021-22	2022-23	2023-24
Braden Holtby								$500,000	$1,900,000
Jake Virtanen								$50,000	$500,000
TOTAL								$550,000	$2,400,000

RECAPTURE PENALTY								2021-22	2022-23
Roberto Luongo								$3,035,212

No matter, I think you're on to something about freeing up cap space with "a trade or two" as that is about the only option JR has this offseason to free up $, and so when/if Brock,  JT (possibly Garland and likely Hoglander) are traded, that should free up enough $ to possibly afford one really good RHD and a reasonable forward or two and we'll likely get our first Round draft pick back too so we can help restock the cupboards that Uncle jim left High & dry after he sacraficed everything to save his job.  That's a brilliant idea you came up with - bravo!

 

As for your theory on players not wanting to play in Canada, that's a tough call because its quite personal for each player plus they get payed in U$D anyways and pay taxes based only where they play - so it' not completely bad on the tax front playing in Canada - although not the best.   Besides, I think some players are wanting to play in a hockey market and a beautiful place like Vancouver where there are more (but not all - as you know) NORMAL people, rather than some backwater hillbilly town in the deep south of the USA where everyone is paranoid about government conspiracies, taxes, Area-51 and whether the earth is really flat as there are a lot of "different" folks way down there - to say it politely (Haha!!!).  I'm sure you can appreciate all those fine points amongst others that the players contemplate before signing anywhere. 

Anyway, 2 things could really help us along IF they work out and you can quote me on this, if Podz keeps it on the upward trend as he gets more and more confidence and experience, and another in Klimovich, man I hope he makes it, he had to work on his D game which set back his numbers and got scratched here and there but started on a break out. Honestly he looks like a middle of the road OV, not a poor man's OV wannabe either, that kids got size, skill, speed, and attitude with a flash of a mean streak here and there. I believe this is our real JV.. (finally) 

[RU SERIOUS]

17 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

So you pointed out the only thing we have in favour over some of the next tier destinations because that's it's arguably in the top 5 most beautiful cities in the world BUT at the end of the day, money is it, that's why it isn't a theory, as much as I wish it wasn't, believe me, I used to pay tax on a business and not anywhere near a player's salary but I got hosed in taxes and it gets worse the more you make so you know where this is going, to sign players, you have to balance out the scale as best you can but it always equals over paying and it always has, this is why we're small market compared to the big USA teams. Stevie Y, Gretz, and tons of other Canadians actually did Capt for the big teams too! Why? Better money.. 

 

I wonder if all those tax breaks have anything to do with America's $30,000,000,000,000.00 (Trillion) dollar debt https://www.forbes.com/advisor/personal-finance/u-s-national-debt-surpasses-30-trillion-what-this-means-for-you/    Vs. Canada's meager $1.1 Trillion debt.    https://www.debtclock.ca/ ?

 

America has sold its future out with that massive debt due to tax breaks (especially that massive 20% Corporate Tax break that Trump gave so his own corporation could profit more (and to get votes) and that debt will prove to be very, very painful for future generations and likely cause the USA to devalue it's currency down the road like Mexico, as they have zero hope of ever repaying that.

[RU SERIOUS]

9 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Anyway, 2 things could really help us along IF they work out and you can quote me on this, if Podz keeps it on the upward trend as he gets more and more confidence and experience, and another in Klimovich, man I hope he makes it, he had to work on his D game which set back his numbers and got scratched here and there but started on a break out. Honestly he looks like a middle of the road OV, not a poor man's OV wannabe either, that kids got size, skill, speed, and attitude with a flash of a mean streak here and there. I believe this is our real JV.. (finally) 

Yeah, I really like Podz.  I think he's going to be a keeper if he continues like he finished this season.  I don't know much about Klimovich, so i can't comment on him but have heard some positive things about him.   Hope he works out too because we need those few young guns we have left to turn out!  Not sure about Woo though, especially after Abby Canucks moved him up to forward???   Not sure whats going on there. That was a mystery!

[iceman64]

20 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Yeah, I really like Podz.  I think he's going to be a keeper if he continues like he finished this season.  I don't know much about Klimovich, so i can't comment on him but have heard some positive things about him.   Hope he works out too because we need those few young guns we have left to turn out!  Not sure about Woo though, especially after Abby Canucks moved him up to forward???   Not sure whats going on there. That was a mystery!

Well I saw a bit on Klim and he has that, ummm his stride cuts are fast and deep into the ice and you can actually hear it like you can from a guy like OV and he gets going in a heartbeat and add to that how fast he dangle and then laser beam... I was quite impressed, and that was him still raw, let alone honed. Almost is a cross between Bure and OV, I don't get to into untested Europeans on small ice until they have been playing on it over here where time and space isn't a luxury like over in the huge rinks. Hopefully he'll figure it out. Oh and it doesn't hurt to have another guy who might help us, Linus Karlsson mr late bloomer it seems, was tearing up the SHL like Petey did, maybe a steal there!

Edited May 12, 2022 by iceman64

[Baratheon]

8 hours ago, iceman64 said:

The media is bush league in Vancouver and it's been that way for a long time. It's certainly not new, didn't you know Bo is a career 3rd line center?? That's exactly what he turned out to be right? That came out of lain Mac's mouth and was agreed upon by other media and a whole lot of fans, he's too slow, blah blah blah.. yeah they just keep getting it right don't they? And by the way, I'm hardly the only one bitching about the bush league boys and have talked about it often so you go ahead and listen to them if you like but don't be surprised when your eating crow.. 

My point exactly.  You have chosen to remember the member of the media who was negative and got it wrong.  Those that had high praise for Bo (and got it right) you seem to have forgotten.

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Yeah, I really like Podz.  I think he's going to be a keeper if he continues like he finished this season.  I don't know much about Klimovich, so i can't comment on him but have heard some positive things about him.   Hope he works out too because we need those few young guns we have left to turn out!  Not sure about Woo though, especially after Abby Canucks moved him up to forward???   Not sure whats going on there. That was a mystery!

Woo is a bustaroo bonsai.  He’s been moved to fourth line wing in hopes he can fill a role as a heavy body, energy, PK guy.  

[Gurn]

31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

.  He’s been moved to fourth line wing in hopes he can fill a role as a heavy body, energy, PK guy.  

He was temporarily moved to wing, because of all the d men down in Abby, he was the best candidate to do a few emergency games as a winger.

If the team had spare wingers, Woo would have remained on D.

Strange how some people view versatility, and willingness to do what it takes, to help the team,  as a failure.

[Gawdzukes]

52 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Woo is a bustaroo bonsai.  He’s been moved to fourth line wing in hopes he can fill a role as a heavy body, energy, PK guy.  

Actually just filled in there. Ryan Johnson said he'll be back on defense where he belongs next year. 

 

But yes he's close to a bustaroo at this point. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[RU SERIOUS]

5 hours ago, Alflives said:

Woo is a bustaroo bonsai.  He’s been moved to fourth line wing in hopes he can fill a role as a heavy body, energy, PK guy.  

Wow - really?   That's a pretty dramatic shift for him to make.    Wonder if there's something else going on there we don't know about.  It's not normal to see that type of move on a front line defensive prospect

[Gurn]

26 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

  Wonder if there's something else going on

Like maybe the abby team was critically short of wingers?

Maybe something like that?

And maybe the team thought, with Woo's size and skating ability he would be a decent fill in till the true wingers got healthy?

 

Maybe?

[RU SERIOUS]

5 hours ago, gurn said:

He was temporarily moved to wing, because of all the d men down in Abby, he was the best candidate to do a few emergency games as a winger.

If the team had spare wingers, Woo would have remained on D.

Strange how some people view versatility, and willingness to do what it takes, to help the team,  as a failure.

Abby must be even worse than we all thought having to make such a dramatic move but if that is what they had to do because of the situation, then so be it.  That makes me wonder if Abby is in even worse shape than what we allready suspect and one of the explanations why we got "Swept out" in the first round - by a 9th place team - no less. 

 

I realize Uncle Jim emptied out the cupboards and used up and leveraged nearly every last piece of equity on the farm team to save his job, but wow - that is frightening to see.   Hope when JR sells off some of our players he can regain a few draft picks back because from all these sorts of stories and media reports things are looking pretty meager down on the farm and that is our future!

Edited May 12, 2022 by RU SERIOUS

[DSVII]

10 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I wonder if all those tax breaks have anything to do with America's $30,000,000,000,000.00 (Trillion) dollar debt https://www.forbes.com/advisor/personal-finance/u-s-national-debt-surpasses-30-trillion-what-this-means-for-you/    Vs. Canada's meager $1.1 Trillion debt.    https://www.debtclock.ca/ ?

 

America has sold its future out with that massive debt due to tax breaks (especially that massive 20% Corporate Tax break that Trump gave so his own corporation could profit more (and to get votes) and that debt will prove to be very, very painful for future generations and likely cause the USA to devalue it's currency down the road like Mexico, as they have zero hope of ever 

Neoliberalism is the cause of the Canucks salary cap woes! Got it haha

[Coconuts]

18 hours ago, Alflives said:

If Bruce is back I don’t see how we couldn’t bring back Miller too.  To me Bruce being back would mean we are going all in with this current core.

I disagree, back or not I don't see Bruce as a long term option. I wouldn't be building the team around the concept of bringing him back, I'd be looking beyond Bruce and betting on our younger core. Going all in with this current group, when it's clear the roster needs surgery, would be shortsighted imo. I don't see us being good enough to go deep over the duration of whatever's left of Miller's prime. I'm pretty confident we just saw his career year. 

 

Hughes, Petey, Podz, Demko. I'd build around them. I'd also keep Horvat. Everyone else is expendable imo. Though I think it's likely we ride out the OEL contract. I also see Garland being kept.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Coconuts

[Honky Cat]

23 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I disagree, back or not I don't see Bruce as a long term option. I wouldn't be building the team around the concept of bringing him back, I'd be looking beyond Bruce and betting on our younger core. Going all in with this current group, when it's clear the roster needs surgery, would be shortsighted imo. I don't see us being good enough to go deep over the duration of whatever's left of Miller's prime. I'm pretty confident we just saw his career year. 

 

Hughes, Petey, Podz, Demko. I'd build around them. I'd also keep Horvat. Everyone else is expendable imo. Though I think it's likely we ride out the OEL contract. I also see Garland being kept.

He obviously isnt the long term option, but he's correct option right now. 

 

Yeah, so Miller had a career year, even if he doesn't match . I think that Hughes ,Petey and Podz are going to improve their stats next season

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Honky Cat said:

He obviously isnt the long term option, but he's correct option right now. 

 

Yeah, so Miller had a career year, even if he doesn't match . I think that Hughes ,Petey and Podz are going to improve their stats next season

If JR plans on trading away Miller, Myers, Garland for futures is Bruce then the right coach, especially considering he's signed for only (max) one more year?

[stawns]

On 5/8/2022 at 11:27 AM, ilduce39 said:

Gillis and Gilman’s “asset management” directly led to the past decade’s miserable record. 

[Honky Cat]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If JR plans on trading away Miller, Myers, Garland for futures is Bruce then the right coach, especially considering he's signed for only (max) one more year?

Honestly, I dont see JR trading primarily for picks (who are years away),  I see him trading for younger players.

Completely sewering prime years of elite players contracts (EP has 2 more years) would be shortsighted right now.

Bringing in another coach right now would be a distraction, right off the bat. The players have fully endorsed the coach, and the results under him, tell the story

[Coconuts]

57 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

He obviously isnt the long term option, but he's correct option right now. 

 

Yeah, so Miller had a career year, even if he doesn't match . I think that Hughes ,Petey and Podz are going to improve their stats next season

I'm fine with him coming back, I'm just not as attached to the idea as others. If he's back great, if not there are some great options who'll need landing spots. I'd be happy with Trotz or Maurice, I'd happily take Trotz over Boudreau as he's the superior coach.

 

I see all three taking steps forward with or without Miller, I firmly advocate for moving him.