Is the new management a committee approach

[Fred65]

Commitees are meant to delay decission making and make no one accountable for decissions made or not made. Remember a Camel is really a horse invented by a committee. I'm not a fan of committees, you just have to look at Governments to realize the suffocating effect of this system. Now the opposite was the Benning style where one man made all the decissions. Most committee members are afraid to speak up about other committee members and decission are mostly by consensus. Rutherford has assambled quite a committee of assistant GM's.  GM Allvin plus Castonguay,  Doerrie, Granato, Clancey, along with Sedins x 2, and Ryan Johnson. Plus of course Smyl, Higgins, and Jarvis. A lot of voices. The question is, is more better or a distraction.

 

Canucks President Jim Rutherford Makes History, Hiring Emilie Castonguay As Assistant GM (forbes.com)

Edited May 9, 2022 by Fred65

[kanucks25]

Allvin is the GM. He makes the decisions after gathering input from his team and running it by JR.

 

I don't think it's that complicated.

 

9 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

The question is, is more better or a distraction.

As long as Allvin is competent, this shouldn't be the case. The more information, the better.

 

Only time will tell.

Edited May 9, 2022 by kanucks25

[Maddogy]

9 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Commitees are meant to delay decission making and make no one accountable for decissions made or not made. Remember a Camel is really a horse invented by a committee. I'm not a fan of committees, you just have to look at Governments to realize the suffocating effect of this system. Now the opposite was the Benning style where one man made all the decissions. Most committee members are afraid to speak up about other committee members and decission are mostly by consensus. Rutherford has assambled quite a committee of assistant GM's.  GM Allvin plus Castonguay,  Doerrie, Granato, Clancey, along with Sedins x 2, and Ryan Johnson. Plus of course Smyl, Higgins, and Jarvis. A lot of voices. The question is, is more better or a distraction.

 

Canucks President Jim Rutherford Makes History, Hiring Emilie Castonguay As Assistant GM (forbes.com)

J.B. was overworked. He gained a lot of weight and had his hair challenges. The decision making was streamlined but you wonder whether differing views had sufficient time and space to be afforded due consideration. There is no perfect  style of management. You had Steve Jobs the dictator and General Electric ran by faceless and nameless committees. . 

[Fred65]

Being a member of a committee I found was not illuminating. Plus many committees have rules in place to limit debate

[Nucker 67]

12 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

and had his hair challenges.

Maybe I'm seeing things, but is the Oilers coach (Woodcroft) using Uncle Jim's hair dye?  His hair looks suspiciously dark. 

[Jaimito]

It's not a political party or government. It's up to the leadership on how they make the structure and rules of decision making. We saw JBs approach, which seems to be small group from outside and they made tons of mistakes. JR is a hall of famer with proven results in two teams.  Let's wait and see. He deliberately wanted more diverse opinions according to the interviews he gave. 

[Nucker 67]

Team effort, more focus on analytics.  Smart, thoughtful decisions moving forward. 

[goalie13]

What you call a committee, I call a team.  I have faith in this team making good decisions together.

[Fanuck]

32 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Commitees are meant to delay decission making and make no one accountable for decissions made or not made. Remember a Camel is really a horse invented by a committee. I'm not a fan of committees, you just have to look at Governments to realize the suffocating effect of this system. Now the opposite was the Benning style where one man made all the decissions. Most committee members are afraid to speak up about other committee members and decission are mostly by consensus. Rutherford has assambled quite a committee of assistant GM's.  GM Allvin plus Castonguay,  Doerrie, Granato, Clancey, along with Sedins x 2, and Ryan Johnson. Plus of course Smyl, Higgins, and Jarvis. A lot of voices. The question is, is more better or a distraction.

 

Canucks President Jim Rutherford Makes History, Hiring Emilie Castonguay As Assistant GM (forbes.com)

The way I've interpreted it from the time JR got here is that he's in charge - all major decisions from every department of the organization run through him.  He is open and invites opinion/perspectives that differ from his, but he has the final say on anything important.  Over time, there will be a split and more specific hockey personnel decisions will run through Allvin, and other major decisions pertaining to other departments will go through their respective managers - but we're not there yet especially with regards to hockey personnel.   That's how I view what's going on. 

[MrCanuck94]

As long as everyone is aligned and has an open mind, it will work out.

 

Strong collaborative groups imo are more about the sharing of strong ideas and coming to a consensus rather than arguing about who is right.

[CanuckleHorse]

I felt every punch that Rat threw and to this day we still need toughness 11 years later and we are still getting slapped around.

[Crabcakes]

5 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

As long as everyone is aligned and has an open mind, it will work out.

 

Strong collaborative groups imo are more about the sharing of strong ideas and coming to a consensus rather than arguing about who is right.

Wasn't it said that Rutherford wanted people with different viewpoints and healthy discussions.  This way, you get the pro's and con's of various proposals.  In the end, you need a leader to make the decision but it's usually self evident.

[MrCanuck94]

2 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Wasn't it said that Rutherford wanted people with different viewpoints and healthy discussions.  This way, you get the pro's and con's of various proposals.  In the end, you need a leader to make the decision but it's usually self evident.

Yep, and I fully believe Allvin is the guy who will take all the input and make the best decision possible. He seems like a very open minded guy.

[RU SERIOUS]

13 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Commitees are meant to delay decission making and make no one accountable for decissions made or not made. Remember a Camel is really a horse invented by a committee. I'm not a fan of committees, you just have to look at Governments to realize the suffocating effect of this system.

Sounds like you know how governments work and why most people with actual ambition work in the private sector rather than in the government or for Crown Corporations.   I can tell you from experience, that many private companies immediately toss resumes from applicants with Gov't experience in the garbage because they know they've been tainted and won't touch them with a ten foot pole.

[RU SERIOUS]

I say we give JR, Alvin & "The Chip-munk Girls" a chance and withold any opinions on their performance until we see them in action.

 

[IBatch]

Both have their flaws.   Committees take time.   They don't work when quick decision making is required.   Flip side is bad decisions are often caught.    Not going to begin to pass judgement on Allvin and co.   So far doing little actually was the correct move.    But don't be surprised if a lot of action (pre-planned) occurs rapidly at points.   JB was a fairly active GM - in the off season.   Especially around free agents. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I say we give JR, Alvin & "The Chip-munk Girls" a chance and withold any opinions on their performance until we see them in action.

 

Yes.   After the JB era and some big mistakes made especially with free agents and properly bottoming out, this team needs a very careful, methodical approach to fixing things.   Excellent drafting will be a must.   Glad they started with cutting some of the dead weight off.    If an amateur scout can't hit or isn't producing that's some low hanging fruit.   They don't disclose those things but it's safe to bet the ones let go didn't have a good draft record.    Maybe Benning Jr did - but that is also understandable, removing remnants of a former regime is usually a first step (and at least unlike Royals - they don't go around killing the heirs from the last king after a coup  lol).      Looking forward to seeing what they do this summer.   They have several paths.   Most of that is based around what to do with the guys that MG locked in just before the team exploded (Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Luongo etc)... those guys were on shorter deals for the most part (not Luongo)....and got max value the first four years or so of them ... we aren't as good yet though.   But unlike that team - we have younger possibly even better pieces coming up in EP and QHs.  

[You Mad Bro?]

   The fact JB was fired shows us it’s not like the government.
   Only in government can you be absolutely terrible at your job and wreck everything you touch then proceed to get raises and promotions for decades. Zero accountability. 
   I’ll hold judgment on this new management team for now. Very important summer coming up tho. 

[thrago]

I have a luke warm opinion of them so far but that's because they really haven't done much yet.  I think they have potential,  the one thing I will say though I'm already tired of them saying "we are accessing the team", that seems to be this groups "it's a process".  

[Fred65]

10 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Sounds like you know how governments work and why most people with actual ambition work in the private sector rather than in the government or for Crown Corporations.   I can tell you from experience, that many private companies immediately toss resumes from applicants with Gov't experience in the garbage because they know they've been tainted and won't touch them with a ten foot pole.

Never worked in government but I would think your sumation would be pretty true. I did initially work for MacMillan Bloedel ( in it's prime ) and their meetings were pretty limiting.