[Signing] Flames sign Nazem Kadri

[Guest]

1 hour ago, c00kies said:

Calgary's team is better than last year, especially for playoffs.

 

They improved on defense by getting Weegar, and then they got better down the middle with Kadri, and also getting Huberdeau over Gaudreau (which I think is an improvement).

 

They might have a shorter window with this group, but it's letting more light in.

I love Weegar in the regular season on a run and gun team.  

 

He had some absolutely atrocious giveaways in playoffs that Canucks fans would want him run out of town for though.  

 

Anyways Calgary is deeper as now when Tanev inevitably gets hurt, they'll be able to move Weegar up the lineup.  

[stawns]

Just now, Diamonds said:

I disagree. They've been pretty comparable over most of their careers with the slight edge to Miller the past couple years (but Kadri being great in the playoffs those years). But last year they were at practically the same point per game pace. If they were the same age Miller might be worth 0.5M more per season. Where it becomes tricky is that Miller is 2.5 years younger than Kadri.

Miller is a far more effective overall player than kadri is.  Not even comparable to me.  Kadei is a great complimentary player, but he's never going to be "the" guy.  Miller is that player.  Would you do Miller for Kadri straight up?

 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Put some numbers to it.  Kadri just came off a year where he was on pace for 100 points. If he was the main guy on a team and not behind Nathan Mackinnon, then why not?  Assuming he is still a PPG+ player elsewhere.  If he was with NYI, Nashville, etc... would he be the #1 guy? 

 

So you honestly think JT Miller will get $15 to $20M more than Nazem Kadri?

So you'd do miller for kadri straight up then?

 

You're so bipolar about Miller.  A month ago he was a top ten player in the league, now he's kadri level and should be paid as such.  Which is it, because it's not both

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by stawns

[Laheys Liquor]

1 minute ago, EddieVedder said:

How are Kadri and Huberdeau old?  They can skate as well as any two players in the league and have conditioning for days.  Both are elite players, esp Huberdeau who is the best winger in the game.  

Kadri is 32 when the season starts. 39 when his contract expires.
Huberdeau is 29. 39 when his new contract expires.
Pretty sure the "Prime" for forwards is usually 26-32. After that you are considered "Old" and most players start getting incrementally worse every year after that.
Calgary might have some cap issues with some old former superstars mailing it in as soon as 3-4 years.

[stawns]

And that is a terrible signing for Calgary, long term.

[VegasCanuck]

They look good on paper, but that's a lot of change in the top of the lineup in one summer. The question is, will they come together as a team.

[Fanuck]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

So you'd do miller for kadri straight up then?

I'm guessing none of the posters saying Kadrina's contract is a direct comp for JTM would do a one-for-one swap all things being equal, yet they'd expect JTM to sign for the dollar/term that he did, strange.

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yeah it means Miller is worth at the very least 8 over the same term, probably more like 8.5/9 in comparison. Kadri is a full 2+ years older.

Term was always the argument with Miller here.  If anything this guarantees he's asking Van for 8 years and it'll be $8m, minimum, which is what most of us said all along

[stawns]

Just now, Fanuck said:

I'm guessing none of the posters saying Kadrina's contract is a direct comp for JTM would do a one-for-one swap all things being equal, yet they'd expect JTM to sign for the dollar/term that he did, strange.

The moving of goalposts is mind boggling

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

So you'd do miller for kadri straight up then?

That's a stupid argument it's clear they're not equal.  I even said that JTM would get a bit more, but not $15 to $20M more. 

 

I could realistically see $7.5M to $8M AAV for same term, or else $7M to $7.5M over 8 years. 

[EddieVedder]

7 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

30 & 32 signed for 8 and 7 respectively. We are scared of OEL @ 35 and JT at 37; imagine Hub at 38 or Kadri at 39!

OEL isnt the best dman in the game.  Huberdeau is legit the best winger in hockey.  I dont think he will even begin to tail off for another 4 years.  

[BPA]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

Why would you think that?

There are several contracts signed this season.  From JH $10.5M to Kadri $7M.  Forsberg was around $8M.

 

So now there’s a few comparable contracts to work with.  There were rumours of Kadri getting upwards to $8-9M (from NYI). If Miller was thinking he’s worth that range, the recent Kadri signing should take that down a notch.

[HKSR]

Nazem Kadri is clearly a capable 1C if given the opportunity.  Just because he had to play behind Nathan friggin Mackinnon (yet still put up a 100 point pace), doesn't mean he is a 2nd line or 3rd line centre.  Man, some hockey fans are just plain uneducated:

 

 

[EddieVedder]

28 minutes ago, 250Integra said:

Honestly don't think Flames are that much better. Their defense is better with Weegar but their forward group is lacking IMO. I think Huberdeau will not be as effective without Barkov. Kadri is not an elite centerman and frankly, better suited as a 2nd line center. We'll see what happens but I think they may struggle under Sutter's coaching.

Huberdeau wasnt playing on Barkovs line, which just makes him an even more unreal player.  

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, BPA said:

There are several contracts signed this season.  From JH $10.5M to Kadri $7M.  Forsberg was around $8M.

 

So now there’s a few comparable contracts to work with.  There were rumours of Kadri getting upwards to $8-9M (from NYI). If Miller was thinking he’s worth that range, the recent Kadri signing should take that down a notch.

I'd put Miller closer to JH, as a player, than Kadri.  Term is the issue, not aav and this just further reinforces the idea that Miller will be asking for and will get max term on his next deal. 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Nazem Kadri is clearly a capable 1C if given the opportunity.  Just because he had to play behind Nathan friggin Mackinnon (yet still put up a 100 point pace), doesn't mean he is a 2nd line or 3rd line centre.  Man, some hockey fans are just plain uneducated:

 

 

You clearly think miller is a franchise player and what you're saying is that you think kadri is as well?  

[HKSR]

Just now, stawns said:

You clearly think miller is a franchise player and what you're saying is that you think kadri is as well?  

I think Kadri is clearly a bonafide 1C.  Stop trying to put words in my mouth to setup your next reply.

 

NO, they are not the same.  NO they are not gonna get exactly the same dollar value. 

 

But with that said, NO, JT Miller will not get $15 to $20M more overall than Nazem Kadri.

[Gawdzukes]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

Term was always the argument with Miller here.  If anything this guarantees he's asking Van for 8 years and it'll be $8m, minimum, which is what most of us said all along

Yup even as a direct money comparable you could come up with 6x$9.5 or 7x&$8 but Miller is better and far younger he's not going to take either of those.

 

Like you said this gives his agent massive leverage as those 2 guys are signed until 39 meaning an 8 year deal or comparable 7 year for more money is their ask. Forget about 6 years. Could you imagine if you're Miller in 7 years making the same cash but being 2.5 years younger? 

 

I can't.

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That's a stupid argument it's clear they're not equal.  I even said that JTM would get a bit more, but not $15 to $20M more. 

 

I could realistically see $7.5M to $8M AAV for same term, or else $7M to $7.5M over 8 years. 

As many of us have said from the start, Millers ask will start with an 8, at the very very bare minimum and definitely max term.  Kadri's contract pretty much guarantees that now.

 

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Nazem Kadri is clearly a capable 1C if given the opportunity.  Just because he had to play behind Nathan friggin Mackinnon (yet still put up a 100 point pace), doesn't mean he is a 2nd line or 3rd line centre.  Man, some hockey fans are just plain uneducated:

 

 

He may have played behind MacKinnon, he had far better linemates and defence than he'll have in Calgary, while playing together matchups.  No matter what that unqualified moron Jfresh is trying to say with his charts, people who actually understand the game can expect a serious regression.  Kadri is comparable to Kesler and is a good 2C or a weak 1C.