[Signing] Flames sign Nazem Kadri

[HorvatToBaertschi]

2 minutes ago, #Canucks said:

Id rather have Kadri at 7M than JT at 8M. If Calgary can move on from their top line, we can move on from JT. We are not in a place to compete the way Calgary is. Trade JT,

We've gone further than Calgary with our young core than they did with their "contending" core the last 7 years.

[#Canucks]

2 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

We've gone further than Calgary with our young core than they did with their "contending" core the last 7 years.

I would only consider Calgary a playoff contender since Marky & Tanev. Before that, nope.

[Elias Pettersson]

17 minutes ago, JM_ said:

So if Kowdri is worth 49 mil total, can Miller really demand 80 like some are suggesting? just don't see how there's a 31 mil gap between the two guys or what GM pays that. 

 

This does set the market for Miller imo. Miller is worth more... 5-10 mil more? 55 over 7 years maybe with a lot of bonus money and front loaded?

$80 million?  I don’t recall anyone advocating a 10x8 deal for Miller.  Not recently anyways. 
 

8x8 or 9x7 are market value deals for a 100 point player. $63-$64 million is where the contract will be. Whether it’s with the Canucks or someone else. Miller is over 2 years younger than Kadri. He’s worth more than 7x7 on the open market. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

$80 million?  I don’t recall anyone advocating a 10x8 deal for Miller.  Not recently anyways. 
 

8x8 or 9x7 are market value deals for a 100 point player. $63-$64 million is where the contract will be. Whether it’s with the Canucks or someone else. Miller is over 2 years younger than Kadri. He’s worth more than 7x7 on the open market. 

Sure but even Miller said he was surprised to hit 99 points, I don't think any GM would expect that from him again, 75-80 pts would be more reasonable. 

 

Any GM trading for him will be using this as a comp imo. I just can't see any GMs going into the high 8s or 9s for him. 

 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

Kadri is overrated lol.

He's a good player but only hit over a ppg this season throughout his entire career. 

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, JM_ said:

Sure but even Miller said he was surprised to hit 99 points, I don't think any GM would expect that from him again, 75-80 pts would be more reasonable. 

 

Any GM trading for him will be using this as a comp imo. I just can't see any GMs going into the high 8s or 9s for him. 

 

Well if last year was an outlier for Miller tha it was also an outlier for Kadri, who’s best season before that was 61 points. 61 points get you $7 million. Even BO is going to sign in the $7-7.5 million range. 
 

Even if Miller is treated as an 80 point centre he is still getting more than $8 million per year on the open market. 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

16 minutes ago, #Canucks said:

Id rather have Kadri at 7M than JT at 8M. If Calgary can move on from their top line, we can move on from JT. We are not in a place to compete the way Calgary is. Trade JT,

Why though.

 

Kadri is 3 years older than JT and they both produce around the same amount (JT produces a little more actually).

[gizmo2337]

I see Kadri as regressing back towards a 40pt season. Last year was an anomaly playing with good line mates on a really good team. I think this signing will look terrible by the time it's over - gross overpayment.

[HKSR]

20 minutes ago, 250Integra said:

Kadri has never been a 1C at any point in his career so its hard to say he's an automatic 1C IMO. Cool he put up over PPG numbers last season but that's the only time he's ever done it on a stacked Avs team. 

Not his fault he has had to play behind guys like Mackinnon, Tavares, and Matthews.  The fact he put up a 100pt pace on the 2nd line is pretty damn impressive given that he doesn't have 1st line minutes to work with.  His stats point to 1C production, and all the advanced stats also point to his ability as a 1C.  It's more surprising to me that simply people's opinions automatically make him less than that.

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Well if last year was an outlier for Miller tha it was also an outlier for Kadri, who’s best season before that was 61 points. 61 points get you $7 million. Even BO is going to sign in the $7-7.5 million range. 
 

Even if Miller is treated as an 80 point centre he is still getting more than $8 million per year on the open market. 

well... maybe? thats an entire season from now. Lots can happen between now and then. But at least we have a decent (not perfect) comparable to work with here. 

 

If it is as high as 60 mil total, hoping its over 8 years to keep the AAV down. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by JM_

[Darius]

19 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Not his fault he has had to play behind guys like Mackinnon, Tavares, and Matthews.  The fact he put up a 100pt pace on the 2nd line is pretty damn impressive given that he doesn't have 1st line minutes to work with.  His stats point to 1C production, and all the advanced stats also point to his ability as a 1C.  It's more surprising to me that simply people's opinions automatically make him less than that.

in my mind the fact that he had his peak year last year in his 30s is the red flag.  Looking at his DB you see a lot of 40,50 point seasons and thats about it.

 

How do we know that last year wasnt an aberration because he got to face the other teams lesser checkers/dmen because the other teams best dmen  were mostly focused on Colorado's top line?  I wouldnt be willing to bet the contract he got at his age -  i guess Calgary sees it differently.

 

It would be a different story if he was 24 and all of the sudden after a couple 50 point seasons he popped...but we have a long sample size to work with here.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Darius

[JamesB]

3 hours ago, Shekky said:

insane they got there replacements older players though so there team is going to be trending downward over the next couple of years though.

 

3 hours ago, c00kies said:

Calgary's team is better than last year, especially for playoffs.

 

They improved on defense by getting Weegar, and then they got better down the middle with Kadri, and also getting Huberdeau over Gaudreau (which I think is an improvement).

 

They might have a shorter window with this group, but it's letting more light in.

 

3 hours ago, BlakeQuinnAndEggs said:

Huberdeau weegar Kadri is miles better than geaudreau gudbranson Tkachuk.

 

Calgary is going all in 

Treliving is making a big splash and getting a lot of praise. And Calgary will be good this year. 

 

But the Huberdeau and Kadri signings have red flags all over them. Both guys had career years last year, partly due to playing on very good teams with very good teammates. You would expect significant "regression to the mean". And both guys are at an age where you expect age-related decline to kick in soon. Both these contracts are likely to be terrible contracts in the later years. And, after trading away their first round pick from last year, and apparently trading away another first round pick this year (or something similar) their prospect pipeline is getting thin.

 

And I am not sure if Calgary has enough cap room to re-sign Weegar for 2023-24. 

 

Also, Markstrom and Tanev are not getting any younger. 

 

As @BlakeQuinnAndEggs says, Calgary is definitely all in for this year. I give them a two-year window (this year and next) after which I think they fall off a cliff. And maybe it happens sooner than that.  

 

[Attila Umbrus]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

Better team now than last year. Suits Sutter better too 

Agreed, I think that’s a very understated part of this whole move. Sutter gets 3 guys who will fit his systems way better than the previous three. Obviously it remains to be seen if this all works out but if Sutter gets these guys playing the right way this team will be very tough to play against. I like the moves. Long term could bite them but I personally don’t mind seeing the GM swing for the fences in this situation. I’d almost hazard to say he HAD to do it for the sake of shaking off the “players want out of Calgary” phobia that was starting.

[Attila Umbrus]

36 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

$80 million?  I don’t recall anyone advocating a 10x8 deal for Miller.  Not recently anyways. 
 

8x8 or 9x7 are market value deals for a 100 point player. $63-$64 million is where the contract will be. Whether it’s with the Canucks or someone else. Miller is over 2 years younger than Kadri. He’s worth more than 7x7 on the open market. 

Plus Millers had a lot longer track record of producing at a higher rate over the last 3 seasons. Millers camp has a much more solid argument for more money than Kadri. We have now found the bottom end of Millers less than comparable counter part now they can negotiate up from there. As you said, 8 M min…

[Coconuts]

#SummerofBrad

[canuck73_3]

40 minutes ago, #Canucks said:

I would only consider Calgary a playoff contender since Marky & Tanev. Before that, nope.

Even still they struggled to beat Dallas, then got steamrolled by Edmonton who were then steamrolled by Colorado. 
 

They’ve been closer to pretenders than contenders until now. At least on paper. 

[EddieVedder]

35 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Kadri is overrated lol.

He's a good player but only hit over a ppg this season throughout his entire career. 

 

 

 

How is he overrated?

Did you see how valuable he was in the playoffs?  The guy is a gamer.  I dont like him personally but you win with Kadris. 

 

[Coconuts]

For real though, Flames looked like they might need to retool or rebuild and now they've bounced back within a few short weeks. If anything, with the additions of Weegar and Huberdeau, plus the 1st, they're in better shape. Their window is now, they've got a legit top 6, one of the best D cores in the league, and Markstrom, they won't care about Kadri's contract by the end of his deal as they'll likely be trending towards a rebuild anyway. 

 

Gotta hand it to Treliving. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Coconuts

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, EddieVedder said:

How is he overrated?

Did you see how valuable he was in the playoffs?  The guy is a gamer.  I dont like him personally but you win with Kadris. 

 

Ignore them.  If Kadri was on the Canucks last year, he'd be praised beyond belief.  A centre that puts up a 100pt pace while also being a pest of a player and plays in all situations is a rare breed.  Not to mention like you said, he's a seriously legit player in the playoffs too.  Realistically, I think many pundits are likely surprised he signed for so little.  People were talking about $8M to $9M range for him.

[Jaimito]

38 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Not his fault he has had to play behind guys like Mackinnon, Tavares, and Matthews.  The fact he put up a 100pt pace on the 2nd line is pretty damn impressive given that he doesn't have 1st line minutes to work with.  His stats point to 1C production, and all the advanced stats also point to his ability as a 1C.  It's more surprising to me that simply people's opinions automatically make him less than that.

It's hard to say. If he plays behind better players, then those guys get the toughest matchups. Hence he may have gotten better production by being lower in depth on a great team.  If he is a 1C on lesser team, he may not be producing as much.  But he's definitely a good player, and Flames are much better with him than Monahan.