[Signing] Canucks re-sign J.T. Miller

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

Maybe it's an issue, maybe it's not.  Looking at last years stats the D was the furthest thing from the issue of this team.  It was first the PK, then the 5 on 5 offense.  In terms of GA 5 on 5 we were top 5 and in terms of chance suppression, we were top 15.  Also who needs a 3C and we have our three cornerstone centers down the middle already?  A 3C is kind of redundant unless we run into injury trouble, but are we gonna bring in a 3C to scratch him or play him on the 4th line until that happens?  We could but probably not and no team does that.  Prospect depth does not affect a cup winning roster, only that rosters long term viability.  We already have that depth sitting in the minors waiting for the call up that can be used for injuries.  No one has a Tanner Pearson or Conor Garland just sitting in the minors waiting for a callup.  Who on Colorado's or Tampa's depth chart in the minors do you see that is so much better than ours?

 

Yes Tampa and Colorado are probably the only two teams that didn't have any holes besides Colorado's average goaltending, however those aren't the only two contenders in the entire league.  You can still be considered a contender with major flaws.  Look at Edmonton, Toronto, Calgary, Washington, Boston, NYR, St. Louis, Minnesota, even Carolina and Florida as examples.  You can find a hole on all of those rosters.  Chemistry is what makes Carolina such a good defensive team, and Toronto such a good offensive team.  Not because their roster doesn't have a single hole.

 

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Not part of, IIRC, we were last (or near) in the league in expected goals against. Our "defensive stats" were largely Demko standing on his head. Our poor puck support, systems play/structure also contribute to that (and make Demko's play all the more impressive).

 

Our D isn't "awful", it's likely ~15-20 in the league. Average or slightly below. The real roster problems are structural and succession. Myers in particular is problematic given that he's a poor fit with both Hughes and OEL, even if a decent 2nd pair D "in a vacuum" on his own. He also expires in 2 seasons. Being a poor fit with our other two top 4 players, and using $6m of cap, prevents us from using that cap space to acquire players who would fit with those players.

 

Schenn (admirably) playing over his head with Hughes is also likely a better fit on a bottom/spare pair role. He also expires after this season. We're a couple short years away from something like Poolman/Juulsen/Woo as our RD depth without additions. That's why people are concerned about "fixing" the D. Structural (ill fit, playing too high up the roster) and succession (no replacements).

 

Some of that would theoretically be taken up by committee. The additions of Kuz/Mik, Pettersson being healthy to start the year, Boeser (hopefully) returning to form, Podkolzin taking a step etc. Assuming we'd gotten a theoretical RHD, we also likely see a bump in offense from the back end and combined with better PK and defensive play from guys like Kuz and said D man, you also likely lower your goals against, which is just as valuable as scoring goals.

 

 

 

[Goal:thecup]

27 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Nobody has yet to reasonably explain how essentially the exact same team (2 Russian unknowns notwithstanding) is making the playoffs this year when the other conference wildcard teams didn't take substantial steps backwards?  And before the 'but a full season of Bruce' people chime in, JR said repeatedly the teams record under the new coaches was not sustainable over a full season.   And no, this isn't being negative, I'd like them to make it,  it's an honest question that nobody has reasonably answered. 

Like a fool, I am going to try:

1.  Your exemption for the 2 Russian adds is not valid.  The Canucks have improved.

2.  It is not only the other conference wildcard teams (assume you meant last year's), but also all teams in the conference that may have failed to improve their team or taken steps back.  I think Calgary and Edmonton and Winnipeg have become poor places to play and they have brought in poor character players which can lower their teams in the standings, for example.

3.  I will not argue Bruce Boudreau's affect on the team's positive results, but only because you have forbidden it.

4.  I have tried to be reasonable and hope you can rest easy and have a nice day.

 

[DeNiro]

7 minutes ago, mordekai said:

Oilers weren’t going to make the playoffs til they fired their coach

And made some noise despite an extremely thin blueline.

 

A great example of how imperfect rosters can be contenders.

[eeeeergh]

9 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Martin is 27yo and played a grand total of 9 NHL games in his career,  what can we realistically expect from this guy who'll be playing behind the exact same defensive unit that allowed Demko to be shelled night in and night out?

Considering how much more scoring we should have this year, and the fact that we had a great second half to the season, and the fact that halak was just downright bad for a lot of games, We can realistically expect Martin to be a decent back up goalie, and probably win 50% of his games assuming he gets the easier part of a back to back. 
Winning 50% of his games, and playing a few more than Halak did would be HUGE for our season record. 

[NHL97OneTimer]

3 minutes ago, JM_ said:

we'll have a legit top pair, and two 3rd pairings. At least to start the season barring no further changes. 

 

What might bump things up is if Rathbone is the real deal and can perform better than expected. 

So many cup winners over the years have been carried by a 30-min well-rounded, stellar defenseman.  This is the luxury the Canucks have never really had.  Edler and Ohlund were very good....excellent in fact but not historically top of the heap types.  I hope with the next rebuild that we finally get that key ingredient.

 

But for now, Rathbone performing really well would be great but I also think we need to find a Tanev-Schenn combination type of player.  Defensively sound while having the ability to intimidate at times if needed.

[BPA]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

And made some noise despite an extremely thin blueline.

 

A great example of how imperfect rosters can be contenders.

And got steamrolled by a much better constructed team.

[eeeeergh]

2 hours ago, Fanuck said:

Nobody has yet to reasonably explain how essentially the exact same team (2 Russian unknowns notwithstanding) is making the playoffs this year when the other conference wildcard teams didn't take substantial steps backwards?  And before the 'but a full season of Bruce' people chime in, JR said repeatedly the teams record under the new coaches was not sustainable over a full season.   And no, this isn't being negative, I'd like them to make it,  it's an honest question that nobody has reasonably answered. 

1. Russian unknown #1 is a proven elite penalty killer, even if you say his offensive prowess is "unknown". If we kill a few more penalties than last year, we already are way better and win more games.
2. Russian unknown #2 was the #2 leading scorer in the KHL who is getting paid Matthew Highmore money to play for us, ODDS are he outperforms matthew highmore, which represents a roster upgrade at F. 
3. Better backup goalie

more penalties killed + more goals scored + less games lost to horrendous goaltending = ???

Edited September 5, 2022 by eeeeergh

[JM_]

1 minute ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

So many cup winners over the years have been carried by a 30-min well-rounded, stellar defenseman.  This is the luxury the Canucks have never really had.  Edler and Ohlund were very good....excellent in fact but not historically top of the heap types.  I hope with the next rebuild that we finally get that key ingredient.

 

But for now, Rathbone performing really well would be great but I also think we need to find a Tanev-Schenn combination type of player.  Defensively sound while having the ability to intimidate at times if needed.

for sure that would be the ideal get. But like you say outside of a pick during a rebuild where do you get that guy? 

[RWJC]

11 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

I really wished this thread was just an extension of the last Miller thread.  We'd be well on our way to 2000 by now.  Moderators, can this not have happened?  Isn't a legendary thread a good thing?!!!

 

That’s being saved for the future EP and QH negotiations/deals. 

[Bleed Blue and Green]

On 9/2/2022 at 3:34 PM, EP Phone Home said:

@Bleed Blue and Green Happy birthday Buddy did you get what you wanted?

Yeah buddie

[DeNiro]

6 minutes ago, BPA said:

And got steamrolled by a much better constructed team.

Sure. But most teams would have been last season.

 

Hasn’t stopped the media from deeming them a contender though.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

14 minutes ago, JM_ said:

not sure this is true - we may have good players for the right side, just not right shots. 

 

Hughes-OEL is a really interesting thing to try. If it works that really helps us as we can put together a workable bottom two pairs particularly if we get DeHaan on board. 

Bruce absolutely does need to try Hughes-OEL. If it works, it raises the further question of who takes over the shutdown role that OEL-Myers has last year, but maybe DeHaan can help there. No question that we need one (and before long two) stay-at-home RD with good physicality and enough mobility to play with any of our puck-moving LD but there are work-arounds like Highes-OEL that would allow us to get by meanwhile.   For me, the silver lining is that we don't need elite RD to make our pairings work, just some solid defensive guys that should come cheaper.  But as we're finding out, even they aren't easy to acquire. 

[Maniwaki Canuck]

19 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

I really wished this thread was just an extension of the last Miller thread.  We'd be well on our way to 2000 by now.  Moderators, can this not have happened?  Isn't a legendary thread a good thing?!!!

 

I was hoping it would be different, and it was for a while but seems to have reverted to the same head-butting. 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, BPA said:

And got steamrolled by a much better constructed team.

Yeah...I can't even  About the only people that thought the Oilers were "contenders" were Oiler fans 

 

This is pretty much the debate in the nutshell. There's a difference between being a good but blatantly flawed playoff team (which we're approaching) vs a deep, well rounded, well built, consistently competitive "contender" like COL or TBL.

 

Could one of the former "get on a roll" and luck in to a cup? Maybe? Hasn't happened recently...but maybe. But I sure like the chances of well rounded teams actually built to attempt to win one year after year, after year doing so.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

6 minutes ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Bruce absolutely does need to try Hughes-OEL. If it works, it raises the further question of who takes over the shutdown role that OEL-Myers had last year, but maybe DeHaan can help there. No question that we need one (and before long two) stay-at-home RD with good physicality and enough mobility to play with any of our puck-moving LD but there are work-arounds like Hughes-OEL that would allow us to get by meanwhile.   For me, the silver lining is that we don't need elite RD to make our pairings work, just some solid defensive guys that should come cheaper.  But as we're finding out, even they aren't easy to acquire. 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Maniwaki Canuck
typos

[Angry Goose]

I really hope someone at the media avail on Tues asks PA: “there’s a segment of the fan base that does not want to see the team sign older aged players to long term contracts, but rather focus on getting younger and keep building. If that means not being very competitive for a few years so be it. What’s tour opinion on this strategy?” 

 

 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Bruce absolutely does need to try Hughes-OEL. If it works, it raises the further question of who takes over the shutdown role that OEL-Myers has last year, but maybe DeHaan can help there. No question that we need one (and before long two) stay-at-home RD with good physicality and enough mobility to play with any of our puck-moving LD but there are work-arounds like Highes-OEL that would allow us to get by meanwhile.   For me, the silver lining is that we don't need elite RD to make our pairings work, just some solid defensive guys that should come cheaper.  But as we're finding out, even they aren't easy to acquire. 

no they're sure not easy to get.

 

I'm kind of expecting, or at least wouldn't be surprised, to see us burn a late pick and/or prospect to clear some cap space to bring in DeHaan before camp starts, now that JT is locked down and Bo likely soon to follow. 

 

[Petey Castiglione]

39 minutes ago, JM_ said:

Petey will be interesting to watch when his negotiation swings around. By then we hopefully will be able to upgrade the d a bit more 

Definitely.  Good chunk of money coming off the books at that time that we can allocate to Petey and upgrading the D.  Hopefully we have some surprises on the farm that help change the make up of the D as well.

[Rindiculous]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Not part of, IIRC, we were last (or near) in the league in expected goals against. Our "defensive stats" were largely Demko standing on his head. Our poor puck support, systems play/structure also contribute to that (and make Demko's play all the more impressive).

 

Our D isn't "awful", it's likely ~15-20 in the league. Average or slightly below. The real roster problems are structural and succession. Myers in particular is problematic given that he's a poor fit with both Hughes and OEL, even if a decent 2nd pair D "in a vacuum" on his own. He also expires in 2 seasons. Being a poor fit with our other two top 4 players, and using $6m of cap, prevents us from using that cap space to acquire players who would fit with those players.

Blatantly false.  We were 15th in xGA last year according to moneypuck.  That is not last or near last in the league.  That is average.  Straight average.  In terms of actual GA/60, we were 3rd in the entire league.  Yes, that means Demko pulled a lot of heavy lifting to bring us up from average to elite, but we were still a completely average squad last year in terms of defense which is not great, but should get you by with the forwards that we have on paper.  In terms of teams right around us in terms of defensive prowess are the Kings, Ducks, Rangers, Leafs, and freaking TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING.  You call that a complete team, yet they're average defensively as well.  Other supposed contenders below us include the Florida Panthers, Oilers, Knights (some people called them that), and Blues (who are all the way at 25th).

 

Also, I thought Myers fit fine with OEL as a shutdown pairing.  Maybe OEL could be used more offensively with other players, but I really think he found a good role on our team.  Yes, succession is a problem, but it is not a problem with our team this very next year which we are talking about right now.

 

Overall, yes I agree the right side is a hole, but it is not a team crippling hole that can't be covered up by how good the rest of the team is and many other contenders deal with the exact same problems we do so this next year we could be considered a contender if our chemistry is able to come together.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Yeah...I can't even  About the only people that thought the Oilers were "contenders" were Oiler fans 

 

This is pretty much the debate in the nutshell. There's a difference between being a good but blatantly flawed playoff team (which we're approaching) vs a deep, well rounded, well built, consistently competitive "contender" like COL or TBL.

 

Could one of the former "get on a roll" and luck in to a cup? Maybe? Hasn't happened recently...but maybe. But I sure like the chances of well rounded teams actually built to attempt to win one year after year, after year doing so.

I think we are two to four right side D (who are good partners that support Quinn and OEL and allow them to play more freely offensively) and a real third line centre who can play a shutdown down role.  

Where are we really good (have a surplus) so could make trades from that position?  Wing?