[Signing] Canucks re-sign J.T. Miller

[Timråfan]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Okay, I'll be back in a few weeks...  

That’s more like it 

[wai_lai416]

3 hours ago, SilentSam said:

I think IF it happens,  he leaves with Rathbone..

we get a better D man back , and a comparatively 48/52 FO face off guy back.

 

I would rather see Boeser used in this scenario instead of Bo.  And a very good Dman back.

Teams with Capspace ..

Landescog is out until after Christmas I think, something to keep in mind.

 

 

lol landeskog is out till xmas.. so what are they going to do when he comes back? cap dump 7mil?

[Junkyard Dog]

3 hours ago, SilentSam said:

I think IF it happens,  he leaves with Rathbone..

we get a better D man back , and a comparatively 48/52 FO face off guy back.

 

I would rather see Boeser used in this scenario instead of Bo.  And a very good Dman back.

Teams with Capspace ..

Landescog is out until after Christmas I think, something to keep in mind.

 

 

In today's market the most likely thing you're getting back is picks and prospects and it'll probably cost that to acquire a RD. 

 

Cap space appears to be one of the most valuable assets in a trade. 

[mll]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Buffalo has lots of cap space and needs a centre, even a captain for next year.  Buffalo is only a short drive to London, Ontario.  What about Horvat to Buffalo for Henri Jokiharju and one of their 2nd round picks in 2023?  We'd still need a 3C which can be addressed in another trade or in free agency.  We free up lots of cap space too.

 

Jokiharju can play with Hughes...

They already have Tage Thompson and Cozens as their top-6 Cs.  Thompson is listed as RW on the NHL website but he broke out as a C (even led their team in face-offs last season) and they just signed him to a 50M contract.  

 

Don't really see them all that interested in trading for Horvat or him in them.  They are trying to fix their culture and grow their young players - contending is still some ways away.

 

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I mean, isn't the idea of bringing in any new president or GM to fix things? I didn't see his resume and think he'd turn us around sooner than later but I was pleased to see someone with a resume like JR's coming in to assess things. From what I understand isn't JR playing more of an advisory role to Al? I was under the impression that despite moves likely going through JR that Al was the guy in the chair. I still believe the plan changed at some point and that things were initially supposed to go a different direction, I think our starting winning and going on that run shifted things. We may look back in retrospect a few years from now and question whether that run giving people more hope and leading people to believe we might be further along than we maybe are did more damage than good. Hard to say right now. But maybe if we hadn't gone on quite a tear we might have seen more pieces shipped out and a more patient approach to team building.

 

I don't like that we shipped out a 2nd, I'm very much a proponent of holding on to high picks and using them ourselves. Moving out picks is part of what got us into the state JR and Al inherited to begin with. I'd have preferred to have ridden out Dickinson for another season, given him a chance to rebound, and bought him out with a year remaining or traded him with a year left on his deal if necessary. 

 

I was hoping we'd move Miller, I genuinely believe we're further away than closer. I don't view us as contenders and I question whether we will be while Miller's still worth his 8M. I question how he'll age, some argue he'll be an outlier and I guess we'll see going forward as I think it's unlikely he's traded. But I don't think he will be, time will tell. I've been wrong before. At least Boeser's on a shorter term deal and can still be moved, and I like Boeser. He's just an easier piece to move if he can stay healthy and produce. 

 

You know where I stand on drafting D, I was hoping we'd use a 1st round pick on one. But we supposedly got a great quality prospect so time will tell. But yeah, to not draft a single RD, I dunno. At least we drafted three D prospects. Our not being able to acquire another 1st or 2nd was a bit of a bummer, I'd have like to have gone for a D in the 2nd round. At least we've still got our 2nd this season. Drafting more D at all is a step in the right direction imo, even if they're in lesser rounds. 

 

Maybe, but even Trotz would have a tough time squeezing water from the stone that is our defense. Sure, that's hyperbole but you get what I'm saying. Part of it is Demko isn't standing on his head night in and night out like he did much of last season, and it's making the holes in our roster more visible. I've argued that Demko was last season's MVP and I still believe it, he covered a lot of warts for this team and likely lead people to believe it's better than it was. We've been scoring goals, we've been building leads, but we haven't been able to close games out and our special teams have still be meh. Sure, let's say some of it's the coaching staff but I still lay most of the blame at the feet of the players, and at the feet of management for not being able to at least partially address our obvious weakness. 

 

Sure, they can be, but Green and Benning had years and we've yet to even get a full season out of this management group. They'll be judged over what happens over these next few months, but as far as management groups go it's still rather early to say they're this or that imo. 

 

I wouldn't say we're further ahead, I'm inclined to say they may have miscalculated where this team is at competitively. There's still time to turn things around but even with Myers back our D is a dogs breakfast, I have little faith in this D core's ability to help take this team deep. It's too early to say we're this or that but the start certainly hasn't filled anyone with a whole lot of confidence. 

As usual, you and I largely agree.

 

I will say though, I don't think our run last year drastically changed their minds on the overall team. The quotes coming out of management have still been of the "poor structure", "overly reliant on Demko" etc variety. I don't think they view the team as more than the bubble team you or I do.

 

I think if anything, they probably got a higher opinion of a few individual players than they had coming in, but that's about it.

 

Either way, thus far they've addressed very little of this teams major issues (RD fit/quality, succession on RD, 3C, cap, picks/prospects, organizational depth/youth). They did add some much needed speed/size/skill/PK ability with the two Russians and have at least made steps to (hopefully) improve organizational development... But those bigger issues still need addressing.

 

This team/fan base will need to see some strides made in those departments, especially after doubling down on guys like Miller. Clock's ticking... We need some big old "proof" flavoured pudding bowls over this season/next summer.

[86Viking]

Doubt it happens but Canucks could still move JT and a team with cap space who could use a player like him is Buffalo as others have mentioned above. Buffalo has Jokihjaru and Lybushkin as RHD of interest. I would have preffered Mikheyev $$$ going to sign Lybushkin this past summer as RHD is by far a bigger need than wingers but id didn't unfold that way.

 

Would Buffalo have interest in JT Miller or Horvat at this point though... 

[Ballisticsports.]

I think it is too early to judge the management team

JR said the team wasn't constructed right and you need interested trading partners

I think with the contracts, terms and flat cap they were handed had them painted into a corner

I believe they very may have tried trading Boeser and Miller but after seeing the returns (maybe because of a flat cap) that they thought best to sign them to contracts rather than lose them for nothing (and very may well trade them still)

They did mention that some players may have to be moved that would be unpopular (and that may still very well happen with the right returns)

 

We don't have a killer defense, but the 1st few games we didn't have our best available either and we need better effort from our stars not named EP

At least the Canucks are scoring and i think they will be better at closing games

I never expected a miracle with the change of guard immediately and that it will take time to untangle the mess and build it right (and patience with the fan base after being at the bottom of the league for what 8 yrs will be tough)

 

[SilentSam]

9 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

In today's market the most likely thing you're getting back is picks and prospects and it'll probably cost that to acquire a RD. 

 

Cap space appears to be one of the most valuable assets in a trade. 

Colorado has 2.5 in capspace,   
we retain 50% of Bo’s salary for this last season ,   Anything is possible.

 

If we can hold on to 2 or 3 pick positions for next years draft,  perhaps we can trade them up and grab Bedard?

 

again it hockey.

Edited October 20, 2022 by SilentSam

[Elias Pettersson]

7 hours ago, mll said:

They already have Tage Thompson and Cozens as their top-6 Cs.  Thompson is listed as RW on the NHL website but he broke out as a C (even led their team in face-offs last season) and they just signed him to a 50M contract.  

 

Don't really see them all that interested in trading for Horvat or him in them.  They are trying to fix their culture and grow their young players - contending is still some ways away.

 

Thompson is terrible at faceoffs.  Last year was his first year taking faceoffs and he was at 40%, even worse than Petey.  Thompson is much better suited to be a RW and play centre only when needed.

 

You would think BO could slide right in and be their 1C.  They just made a 34-year-old Okposo their captain.  But he will be gone next year most likely.  BO could see this as a fresh start and could be the leader of a young team ready to make that next step.  And he's a two-hour drive away from home...

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Thompson is terrible at faceoffs.  Last year was his first year taking faceoffs and he was at 40%, even worse than Petey.  Thompson is much better suited to be a RW and play centre only when needed.

 

You would think BO could slide right in and be their 1C.  They just made a 34-year-old Okposo their captain.  But he will be gone next year most likely.  BO could see this as a fresh start and could be the leader of a young team ready to make that next step.  And he's a two-hour drive away from home...

Miller*

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

Colorado has 2.5 in capspace,   
we retain 50% of Bo’s salary for this last season ,   Anything is possible.

 

If we can hold on to 2 or 3 pick positions for next years draft,  perhaps we can trade them up and grab Bedard?

 

again it hockey.

I could see Colorado going after BO as a rental for the playoffs.  What could we get from them?  It would have to be picks and prospects.  Newhook and their 2023 1st round pick?  Too bad they traded their top 2 RHD prospects last year in Barron and Helleson.  I would have liked Helleson...

[Coconuts]

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I could see Colorado going after BO as a rental for the playoffs.  What could we get from them?  It would have to be picks and prospects.  Newhook and their 2023 1st round pick?  Too bad they traded their top 2 RHD prospects last year in Barron and Helleson.  I would have liked Helleson...

Even if they don't go deep again I don't see any 1st we get from Colorado being anything less than in the 20's, what prospects do they have to part with? They aren't giving up Byram. 

 

They just won the cup, I question whether they'll look to gut their prospect depth to go for another one. I could see them being willing to move their 1st but they've got a good management group over there and I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't more willing to simply give up picks than in house prospects who've been developing. 

 

They had more assets to play last year leading up to the deadline but the moves they did make paid off. I think last year would have been the time to have tried and made a deal with Colorado. Obviously they'll want to repeat but having actually won it all I don't see them being desperate. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Coconuts

[wai_lai416]

40 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Even if they don't go deep again I don't see any 1st we get from Colorado being anything less than in the 20's, what prospects do they have to part with? They aren't giving up Byram. 

 

They just won the cup, I question whether they'll look to gut their prospect depth to go for another one. I could see them being willing to move their 1st but they've got a good management group over there and I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't more willing to simply give up picks than in house prospects who've been developing. 

 

They had more assets to play last year leading up to the deadline but the moves they did make paid off. I think last year would have been the time to have tried and made a deal with Colorado. Obviously they'll want to repeat but having actually won it all I don't see them being desperate. 

i dont think they will give up byram unless it's enticing enough.. but at the same time.. can they afford to keep byram and still ice a deep enough team that can compete? we are seeing how paper thing they are outside of the top 6, and next year they only have 5 players in the top 6 signed.. literally need 1 more top 6 and 6 bottom 6.. it really depends in byram wants to go for a short bridge or wanna take a homerun swing given his concussion history he had.. if i were his agent i'd tell him to go for the big long term contract for security rather than the short bridge.. colorado top 4 is good enough with or without byram. he's a luxury if colorado wants couple more swing at the cup. although to get something like byram we would prolly be looking at Bo + 1st + prospect at this point.. which is risky given his concussion history.. and he's another LD

[Coconuts]

14 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i dont think they will give up byram unless it's enticing enough.. but at the same time.. can they afford to keep byram and still ice a deep enough team that can compete? we are seeing how paper thing they are outside of the top 6, and next year they only have 5 players in the top 6 signed.. literally need 1 more top 6 and 6 bottom 6.. it really depends in byram wants to go for a short bridge or wanna take a homerun swing given his concussion history he had.. if i were his agent i'd tell him to go for the big long term contract for security rather than the short bridge.. colorado top 4 is good enough with or without byram. he's a luxury if colorado wants couple more swing at the cup. although to get something like byram we would prolly be looking at Bo + 1st + prospect at this point.. which is risky given his concussion history.. and he's another LD

I mean, given his age and upside I reckon Colorado would simply move out someone else. Toews will be 29 early next year for example and will have a year remaining on his deal after this season.

 

They could move him, keep Byram, and come out ahead with assets. If they do they'll have gotten three seasons and a cup out of him and the two 2nds could be a wash depending on the return.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Coconuts

[mll]

12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Thompson is terrible at faceoffs.  Last year was his first year taking faceoffs and he was at 40%, even worse than Petey.  Thompson is much better suited to be a RW and play centre only when needed.

 

You would think BO could slide right in and be their 1C.  They just made a 34-year-old Okposo their captain.  But he will be gone next year most likely.  BO could see this as a fresh start and could be the leader of a young team ready to make that next step.  And he's a two-hour drive away from home...

 

Not the only young player that started at 40%.  Buffalo sees him as a centre - no reason to think they'll trade for a C as they don't see it as a need.   Horvat is also too old for their core and not sure why he would want to go to a team that's yet to show they can contend.   He's also not a C1.

 

Face-offs is also a misleading stat.  A player can win a face-off although the puck goes directly to the opponent.  Teams internal stats don't often align with public data available - Friedman touched on that saying that coaches don't like the way the NHL accounts for face-offs.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

16 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Not the only young player that started at 40%.  Buffalo sees him as a centre - no reason to think they'll trade for a C as they don't see it as a need.   Horvat is also too old for their core and not sure why he would want to go to a team that's yet to show they can contend.   He's also not a C1.

 

Face-offs is also a misleading stat.  A player can win a face-off although the puck goes directly to the opponent.  Teams internal stats don't often align with public data available - Friedman touched on that saying that coaches don't like the way the NHL accounts for face-offs.

 

Thompson turns 25 in a week.  So he's only 2 1/2 years younger than Horvat.  Horvat isn't a 1C but neither is Thompson or Cozens.  They are still figuring it all out.  Buffalo looks like a team that can challenge for the playoffs this year.  So their rebuild is pretty much over.  They've had 5 first round picks over the last 2 years so they've collected enough young talent.

 

It's time for them to get some veterans in place to help them in the playoffs.  They have tons of cap space as well to sign a big UFA in the summer.  I can see them going after a top 6 forward and a goalie.

 

They just beat Calgary tonight.  They look like a playoff team right now...

[DownUndaCanuck]

I'd love to know what deals were on the table that Allvin said no to for Miller. Musn't have been very good, and last year everyone said Miller was so good he was untradeable, but you knew his 99 point days would come to an end - I'm surprised they've ended this quickly to be fair, thought he had at least another couple of 70-80 point seasons in him.

 

NYR were the big fish and it sounded like they had something like Lundqvist + 1st + bits on the table and we said no at the time (rightly so). Right now I think anyone on these boards would take that in a heart-beat.

 

We will live and lose by this contract now, you just hope Miller turns it around later this year because if he keeps this up all season long it is by far the worst move this franchise has made. At least with LE, he was solid defensively and 2M cheaper than Miller.

[steviewonder20]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:18 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

I could see Colorado going after BO as a rental for the playoffs.  What could we get from them?  It would have to be picks and prospects.  Newhook and their 2023 1st round pick?  Too bad they traded their top 2 RHD prospects last year in Barron and Helleson.  I would have liked Helleson...

Doesn’t Newhook shoot left and he’s only 5’10” 190. I’d like a big rhd to play with Hughes.

Edited October 21, 2022 by steviewonder20

[jyu]

On 10/21/2022 at 1:32 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

I'd love to know what deals were on the table that Allvin said no to for Miller. Musn't have been very good, and last year everyone said Miller was so good he was untradeable, but you knew his 99 point days would come to an end - I'm surprised they've ended this quickly to be fair, thought he had at least another couple of 70-80 point seasons in him.

 

NYR were the big fish and it sounded like they had something like Lundqvist + 1st + bits on the table and we said no at the time (rightly so). Right now I think anyone on these boards would take that in a heart-beat.

 

We will live and lose by this contract now, you just hope Miller turns it around later this year because if he keeps this up all season long it is by far the worst move this franchise has made. At least with LE, he was solid defensively and 2M cheaper than Miller.

The only way forward is to move Miller to the wing and give him a defensively responsible center to play with. His defensive awareness makes him ill suited for center duties. 

 

Podz-EP-Garland

Mikheyev-Bo-Boeser

Miller-Aman-Kuzmenko

Pearson-Lazar-Joshua

 

The next 8 years is going to be tough. Let us pray that we somehow win the lottery and get Bedard.

 

[Strawbone]

They can trade Miller this season still, right? Even if the return is mediocre I don’t care. I don’t see how his contract doesn’t become a huge boat anchor on this team for the next 8 years.