[Signing] Canucks re-sign J.T. Miller

[Angry Goose]

JT is the best player on this team.  As long as he shows he can be a difference maker to age 35 I think the contract will be worthwhile for the team. He adds so much to the team that (if he continues to play well) is someone you want to keep.

 

As far as cap flexibility and contract efficiency goes, I think there are other (maybe more desirable) spots on the roster you can do that. As much as I love the chaos giraffe, you could definitely give the team some different (and cheaper looks) with that cap space.  Same with OEL, and I absolutely love the guy.  Some other smaller contracts that will expire or you can move if need be.  

 

If JTM can prove he is worth his contract, it was probably best to keep him given his contribution to the team.  I was ok with a trade for the right return but that didnt seem doable.  And reflecting on it- it’s probably better to tweak the roster in different spots.  That may be difficult but a good test for the new mgmt group.

 

Im also curious whether JT’s contract now sets an internal cap within the team.  

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, spook007 said:

[alt kilgore]

24 minutes ago, gurn said:

just did, not my problem you don't like the answer.

And I asked about Bertuzzi's handling of his anger before you threw in the 'spitting at home bit" so

who has to 'answer first"?

I’ll answer. In hindsight there are tons of situations, both in the domestic world and the pro sports world, that are regretful.  Here’s the thing…. We don’t live in hindsight.

 

 At the risk of opening a big ole can of worms, Bertuzzi challenging the coward Moore until finally popping him side the head from behind to goad him further. That in itself was a wee bit over the line. But nothing to get too shocked about.  So to answer, No. The rest was a comedy of errors starting with Moore turtling and Avalanche players  dog piling on top. And when the dust settled, Moore was injured.  
 

now in hindsight, did Bert regret his actions? Of course. but during that actual game? he and thousands of fans had no real problem with it until the stretcher came out.

 

 And Miller’s “crime” is not even close to that. For him it’s not about taking it out physically on an opponent, it’s slamming a stick against the boards ffs. And honestly, if another hockey player is so shocked and offended by that, I don’t want them on my team

 

[Jester13]

41 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I didn't hear/see that? Where did he say that?

Found it, and I remembered the quote wrong. He says “It’s his competitiveness,” Boudreau said at the end of the season. “Sometimes, it rubs people the wrong way, but he plays with pain and he’s an unknown superstar. He’s got so much pride. When he doesn’t do well, he knows it and gets angry about it, which I have no problem with.

 

“He’s one really good leader and I would take him on my team any time, any day.”

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/the-wait-is-over-canucks-sign-j-t-miller-to-seven-year-extension-worth-56-million

 

He didn't say teammates directly, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did rub some of the guys the wrong way; it's natural for it to do so when one guy is showing his frustration during dark times and sometimes even scowling at his teammates - some young guys especially can tend to have thinner skin than vets. Of course, I'm merely hypothesizing with my narrative, but to me it describes last year pretty closely with what we heard, saw, and know. Boudreau fixed the team culture, and I truly feel it started with him helping JT learn and grow into the leader we now see, and I think he also helped others understand and accept JT as our emotional leader. All of this is what makes me the most excited about this team moving forward - they're a team who are all learning and growing together. That is a recipe for success. 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, Angry Goose said:

JT is the best player on this team.  As long as he shows he can be a difference maker to age 35 I think the contract will be worthwhile for the team. He adds so much to the team that (if he continues to play well) is someone you want to keep.

 

As far as cap flexibility and contract efficiency goes, I think there are other (maybe more desirable) spots on the roster you can do that. As much as I love the chaos giraffe, you could definitely give the team some different (and cheaper looks) with that cap space.  Same with OEL, and I absolutely love the guy.  Some other smaller contracts that will expire or you can move if need be.  

 

If JTM can prove he is worth his contract, it was probably best to keep him given his contribution to the team.  I was ok with a trade for the right return but that didnt seem doable.  And reflecting on it- it’s probably better to tweak the roster in different spots.  That may be difficult but a good test for the new mgmt group.

 

Im also curious whether JT’s contract now sets an internal cap within the team.  

Why does it have to be "As Long As?" 

 

Seriously why aren't we ripping on EP or Brock??  Neither of them scored as many points (or close to it) the last 3 years at 5.2.   Or Horvat.   And just because they are younger then Miller was at the same age means something - but not as much as some think either.   Not quite didley squat.   The Sedins had two PPGish seasons before the two together took up 22% of our cap.   Think about that for a minute.  

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

Found it, and I remembered the quote wrong. He says “It’s his competitiveness,” Boudreau said at the end of the season. “Sometimes, it rubs people the wrong way, but he plays with pain and he’s an unknown superstar. He’s got so much pride. When he doesn’t do well, he knows it and gets angry about it, which I have no problem with.

 

“He’s one really good leader and I would take him on my team any time, any day.”

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/the-wait-is-over-canucks-sign-j-t-miller-to-seven-year-extension-worth-56-million

 

He didn't say teammates directly, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did rub some of the guys the wrong way; it's natural for it to do so when one guy is showing his frustration during dark times and sometimes even scowling at his teammates - some young guys especially can tend to have thinner skin than vets. Of course, I'm merely hypothesizing with my narrative, but to me it describes last year pretty closely with what we heard, saw, and know. Boudreau fixed the team culture, and I truly feel it started with him helping JT learn and grow into the leader we now see, and I think he also helped others understand and accept JT as our emotional leader. All of this is what makes me the most excited about this team moving forward - they're a team who are all learning and growing together. That is a recipe for success. 

The only thing I'm going to say to this is I don't like assuming it's rubbing his teammates the wrong way. It could very well easily motivate his team. Unless if we have evidence to prove this, we really won't know, so no point in assuming.

[Dr. Crossbar]

I'm glad Podkolzin will have Miller around for the next several years as a team mate. Miller will help Podz's game and development as a pro. This signing will pay off in more ways than one. 

[Pure961089]

Things that plagued the Canucks in the first half of last year.  
 

- Penalty Killing was terrible - PK coaches were fired

- Green was too stubborn to try new things

- Force feeding the fans a line that clearly wasn’t working anymore

- Petey’s wrist

- The team’s defensive structure was non existent aside from Demko. 
 

Things this management group have done to fix those issues

 

- Signed a PK specialist in Mikheyev and Lazar

- Boudreau tried new things like giving Hughes and Petey some PK time. Something Green would never do.

- Boudreau put Petey in as a 3rd line centre to take pressure off him when he was struggling with confidence and injury -

- Peteys wrist injury and confidence came around 

- Boudreau will implement a more structured defensive system in which players like Pettersson will thrive. 
 

From top to bottom the Canucks team feels so much more happier with Green and Benning gone.  

 

[SilentSam]

Predictions and Calculations are so very hard to make in this game.

The only thing you can be sure of , is what you have .

In Miller, we know what we have.

 

Even though what was thought of him as a player previously,.    It’s what we have in the real / present that matters.

Nothing is more real or present than that.

 

This,  ….  Perhaps a C Button assessment in the moment..  to Mason Raymond .

 

 

[SilentSam]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I'm glad Podkolzin will have Miller around for the next several years as a team mate. Miller will help Podz's game and development as a pro. This signing will pay off in more ways than one. 

Have said this from day one,.  This team has lacked proper leader / mentorship since Stan Smyl.

I get there’s the “leadership group” concept,.

but that’s the gaggle of nuns telling you what’s wrong and not inspiring you.

[aGENT]

34 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

Definitely not saying you called it a dumpster fire. By no means was that directed at anything you said, that was me generalizing what I feel is a lot of people on CDC's issue with our defense is, which I brought up in my first post. As for destroying the chance of the team. That's the way it sounded to me when you talk about JT's contract causing all sorts of issues down the line for us. Apologize if that's not what you meant. 

All I said was that it makes addressing our other clear, structural roster issues more difficult. Which it does. You even "didn't disagree" below. Nowhere did I say it destroys anything or "causes all sorts of issues".

 

It's hard to have an actual discussion if one side keeps insisting on hyperbole to make their points.

 

34 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

 

I don't disagree paying JT 8 M won't make things more difficult. But I respectfully think it was the right move to do. With the young guys we have we need to make a statement that we want to win and put our best effort forward. Letting JT go no matter what reflects in my opinion a different direction...then we go into another rebuild/retool again? Try to rebuild another team identity...eventually this cycle needs to stop and the young players we have developed need to take a step forward, delaying this process and dragging it out another 2 or so years will not be beneficial in my mind. All the guys on this team want to win now, not tomorrow.

 

I guess we can at least agree that no matter what, this the team going forward and it's anyones guess as how it's gonna really go lol. I really do hope this group can keep building and proving to us they are the team they say they are...I am so tired of "rebuilding" hockey...seems like 2011 was so long ago now. All my years of being a Canucks fan we have lost so much and won so little, so the idea of a step back right now is un appealing to me, whether that is right or not.

I don't think the plan was ever to rebuild/retool regardless of which way things went with Miller. This team has good bones and a good young core. Any trade return and cap space would have been used to continue to build the roster and compete for playoffs this season (and future ones). 

 

 

And speaking of hyperbole...

 

58 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Too many people look at the cumulative result of last year and say we aren't a playoff team. We basically had 2 seasons last year. The first under Green was a disaster. After Bruce came in we played .650 hockey the rest of the way. That gets you in the playoffs every year.

 

There's no reason to suggest Bruce can't keep that going with this same group and of course Miller is a huge part of that group. Is the defence good enough to win a cup?, nope, but it's good enough to get you into the playoffs and take it from there.

 

Seeing that Miller could have got quite a bit more in free agency I don't see what there is to gripe about but as always people find something to gripe about. Says more about them than the team.

I'm saying basically the same thing as you and I'm (apparently) one of the "gripers"  This team, as is, is good enough to battle for a bubble playoff spot and maybe win a round or two. Not likely win a cup without MAJOR horse shoes. Not considered one of the top ~5 teams, and a favourite to win the cup. EI: not a "contender".

 

We have too many holes/structural issues etc. Miller or otherwise.

 

And yes, Miller's deal is happily below market value/team friendly. Yay!

 

It's also fraught with risk the last 3-4 years and represents a cap "speed bump" from correcting those above issues. 

 

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

I'd love it if those selling this group as "not" a playoff team, "contender" or whatever could lend me their crystal balls.

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I didn't say the team "will" make the playoffs. I think they will and, based on their play in the latter part of the season, am quite confident they will if injuries don't get in the way of that. 

My point was that you don't know until you get there/try. Some here are convinced we're "not".

 

Anyhow, not biting any further here because you've switched to a new lane again. Without finishing up the last discussion. Too much for my little (happy) brain right now. Cheers.

 

 

Conflating "good", "playoff" or "bubble" team with "contender" is a you problem.

[Master Mind]

16 minutes ago, IRR said:

Same Schtick as the last couple years from you!!! What’s your deal anyway??

I'd say his "deal" is being right most of the time.

 

17 minutes ago, IRR said:

You need to take a serious look in the mirror

 

18 minutes ago, IRR said:

It’s always the same with you…know it all, negative, hateful

 

The irony...

[alt kilgore]

8 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Found it, and I remembered the quote wrong. He says “It’s his competitiveness,” Boudreau said at the end of the season. “Sometimes, it rubs people the wrong way, but he plays with pain and he’s an unknown superstar. He’s got so much pride. When he doesn’t do well, he knows it and gets angry about it, which I have no problem with.

 

“He’s one really good leader and I would take him on my team any time, any day.”

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/the-wait-is-over-canucks-sign-j-t-miller-to-seven-year-extension-worth-56-million

 

He didn't say teammates directly, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did rub some of the guys the wrong way; it's natural for it to do so when one guy is showing his frustration during dark times and sometimes even scowling at his teammates - some young guys especially can tend to have thinner skin than vets. Of course, I'm merely hypothesizing with my narrative, but to me it describes last year pretty closely with what we heard, saw, and know. Boudreau fixed the team culture, and I truly feel it started with him helping JT learn and grow into the leader we now see, and I think he also helped others understand and accept JT as our emotional leader. All of this is what makes me the most excited about this team moving forward - they're a team who are all learning and growing together. That is a recipe for success. 

I share your excitement and I think Miller has matured and learned here.

 

 But I’ll just add to Lock’s point in that I think Bruce didn’t mean Miller’s teammates with that “rubs people the wrong way”.  I think he meant it in a more general sense with the public and media more, because that’s where the comments were coming from.

[Blue Jay 22]

26 minutes ago, IRR said:

Same Schtick as the last couple years from you!!! What’s your deal anyway?? It’s same nonsense from last summer & throughout the year and I’m done with it (as are sooo many others). You and few others are why I’ve mostly avoided this place during the last year, which is unfortunate, because there is some great people on here and I generally enjoy it, minus you and a few others dragging every thread down. 
 

It’s always the same with you…know it all, negative, hateful and just s******* on all this organization does.
 

Opinions and conversation are fine, but that should come with positives & negatives / good & bad / constructive criticism and at least acknowledging others / accomplishments of the team / those on it. You seem to ONLY be able to do one half of that! Just negativity / hate and never credit for the good / positive. You seem incapable of listening, looking in the mirror, taking responsibility and most importantly changing!! Just constantly driving your ignorant narrative down everyone’s throats. 
 

You constantly / consistently s*** on Benning and everything he did, plus everything else to do with the team. You gloated / rubbed it in everyone’s face when he got fired, then praised the new management before they even did anything and made out like they will be superior to Benning, now after they’ve barely been on the job / only made a few moves, your back at it with your usual agenda…i knew you couldn’t keep up your hype about the changes (management) long. Your true self is showing yet again. 
 

And, I’m not having a repeat of last summer and getting into with you over & over, so this is my only response! You need to take a serious look in the mirror or find something better to do / follow another team!! 

This is awful. You seem to be confusing “trolling” with a difference of opinion. Why do we divide ourselves as a fan base? 

[-DLC-]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

All I said was that it makes addressing our other clear, structural roster issues more difficult. Which it does. You even "didn't disagree" below. Nowhere did I say it destroys anything or "causes all sorts of issues".

 

It's hard to have an actual discussion if one side keeps insisting on hyperbole to make their points.

 

I don't think the plan was ever to rebuild/retool regardless of which way things went with Miller. This team has good bones and a good young core. Any trade return and cap space would have been used to continue to build the roster and compete for playoffs this season (and future ones). 

 

 

And speaking of hyperbole...

 

I'm saying basically the same thing as you and I'm (apparently) one of the "gripers"  This team, as is, is good enough to battle for a bubble playoff spot and maybe win a round or two. Not likely win a cup without MAJOR horse shoes. Not considered one of the top ~5 teams, and a favourite to win the cup. EI: not a "contender".

 

We have too many holes/structural issues etc. Miller or otherwise.

 

And yes, Miller's deal is happily below market value/team friendly. Yay!

 

It's also fraught with risk the last 3-4 years and represents a cap "speed bump" from correcting those above issues. 

 

 

Conflating "good", "playoff" or "bubble" team with "contender" is a you problem.

Promised myself I wouldn't, but it's raining and I'm bored.

 

I get it. But any team that gets into the playoffs is a contender. I think it is a problem with some who don't really know what "contender" means.

[aGENT]

24 minutes ago, The Lock said:

There's a couple of problems I have with what you've said here:

 

1. Sure, Miller could get injured, but so could any player. That's the reality of a physical sport such as hockey. Does it mean we become paranoid of players getting injured and making decisions on worst case scenarios? Is that even healthy?

 

2. Sure, later on in Miller's contract it could get worse. It probably will be worse as he ages (unless if he becomes Pavelski but that's another story). Does that mean we take a step back now and not benefit from having a player of his caliber right now? We've both agreed at this point that we can't replace him at the moment.

 

And then there's the question of if we'd be able to replace him at all within the 8 years. I'll tell you what, if you can find me an actual scenario where a team has been able to replace a player of Miller's caliber without trading a player of Miller's contract for 8mil of less, I'm more than willing to listen and hear you out. Otherwise, it seems to me like that's wishful thinking.

 

Those 2 lessers players later on are still a risk. We could even use your arguments against them: maybe they get injured. Maybe one becomes another Miller at Miller's age. Do we then trade that person too in a never-ending cycle of trading our best players because we're afraid of doing contracts?

 

You also talk about black and white. Where have I mentioned it's black and white? I haven't. It isn't, but I can provide you with what I provided in terms of stats and looking at where players are to give more an educated understanding of the scenario, enough to the point where I can confidently say that to have traded Miller would have set us back and we haven't had another player of Miller's caliber for 11 years. You want to worry about injuries? Perhaps worry about that 11 years as well.

All I'm saying is that you can't declare it's better to have retained Miller and committed that $8x7 with having zero idea of what we may have traded for, or spent that cap on, or how Miller, (or his trade return, to your point) is still performing in 4+ years, or whether the team may/may not have improved by being more well rounded etc, etc...

 

 

[Devron]

44 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

This is your "window" to fix the driveway. 

Well done sir haha 

[Jester13]

18 minutes ago, The Lock said:

The only thing I'm going to say to this is I don't like assuming it's rubbing his teammates the wrong way. It could very well easily motivate his team. Unless if we have evidence to prove this, we really won't know, so no point in assuming.

I mean, you don't have to assume anything. I, on the other hand, don't mind discussing last season's early challenges under Green, the rumblings of team division (where there's smoke, there's often at least some fire), then Bruce coming in and seeing the transformation of Miller et al, and using it all to get excited for this year. I agree that we'll never get to know the full truth, but I still get a sense that there was some sort of truth behind the team hardship/division. But I also get a sense that our team is all the better for it. I think it was a huge bonding experience for them, and Bruce and JT were a big part of it. 

[Alflives]

4 hours ago, 4petesake said:

Not sure you or any of us get to decide who the “key guys” have to be to win a cup. More than a few lesser lights have won the Conn Smythe. To actually win a cup you need virtually all the pieces to show up when it counts.

 

The only playoff stats recently show JT showed up when it counted, as did the others you mentioned. 
 

 

Did we win the Cup?

Hughes, Demko, and especially Petey are the “key” guys who must be elite for us to win a Cup.  Miller, Bo need to be very good in supporting roles.  Think of Miller as Landeskog and Bo as Kadri and how they both contributed t9 the Avs’ Cup.  Yes, they were important, but they weren’t the “key” guys to winning.   Nuchuskin played beyond any level he’s ever done in a supporting role for the Avs too.  But without their “key” guys playing great do they win?  

Same for us.  Demko, Hughes, Petey must be elite for us.  Miller and Bo will contribute too, of course (and can play great) but we don’t win if the other three aren’t performing.  

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I get it. But any team that gets into the playoffs is a contender.

No, they're not.

 

2 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I think it is a problem with some who don't really know what "contender" means.

Indeed. Again, your team's own President has stated he doesn't feel the team is a contender and that it will take a couple years to (hopefully) build them in to one.