Bad_BOI_pete Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 i dont know if this is equal value, but this works for cap space for both teams for 22 man rosters. edmonton drops cap, we add cap but can just make it work. The canucks could always bury dickinson if they needed cap room. why edmonton does this: they can actually play hockey under the cap. all 5 players will make the team (dowling as depth) why canucks do this: clear poolman and avoid playing hoglander on the 4th where he doesn't belong, we also get a few good prospects in Bouchard and McLeod and the better defenceman. our center depth is greatly improved and we get bigger. Trades 1. VAN Bouchard, Evan Ceci, Cody McLeod, Ryan [RFA Rights] sign for 1.1 million? Ryan, DereK EDM Dowling, Justin Poolman, Tucker Schenn, Luke Höglander, Nils Joshua, Dakota ROSTER SIZE SALARY CAP CAP HIT OVERAGES BONUSES CAP SPACE 22 $82,500,000 $82,460,833 $1,250,000 $2,550,000 $39,167 Delete Signed Player Buyout Add to Trade Roster Left Wing Centre Right Wing Mikheyev, Ilya $4,750,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 4 Miller, J.T. $5,250,000 LW, C UFA - 1 Boeser, Brock $6,650,000 RW UFA - 3 Pearson, Tanner $3,250,000 LW M-NTC UFA - 2 Horvat, Bo $5,500,000 C UFA - 1 Garland, Conor $4,950,000 RW, LW UFA - 4 Kuzmenko, Andrei $950,000 LW UFA - 1 Pettersson, Elias $7,350,000 C, LW RFA - 2 Podkolzin, Vasily $925,000 LW, RW RFA - 2 Dickinson, Jason $2,650,000 C, LW UFA - 2 Lazar, Curtis $1,000,000 C, RW UFA - 3 McLeod, Ryan $1,100,000 C RFA Ryan, Derek $1,250,000 C, RW UFA - 1 Roster created at CapFriendly.com | Follow on Twitter @CapFriendly Left Defense Right Defense Goaltender Hughes, Quinn $7,850,000 LD UFA - 5 Ceci, Cody $3,250,000 RD UFA - 3 Demko, Thatcher $5,000,000 G UFA - 4 Ekman-Larsson, Oliver $7,260,000 LD NMC UFA - 5 Bouchard, Evan $863,333 RD RFA - 1 Martin, Spencer $762,500 G UFA - 2 Dermott, Travis $1,500,000 LD/RD RFA - 1 Myers, Tyler $6,000,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 2 Burroughs, Kyle $750,000 LD/RD UFA - 1 Scratches Injured Reserve (IR) Long Term IR (LTIR) Ferland, Micheal $3,500,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 1 Quote 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 So, basically under your proposal, you're suggesting that Edmonton gut their team depth for Hoglander as he's the only guy on that list that they would find even remotely useful. Bouchard was their first round pick, 10th overall about 3 years ago, he's already a half a point per game player, even though he's not the fastest guy on the ice. If you included our 2023 1st round pick, not top 10 protected, you might have a chance of getting that trade done. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: i dont know if this is equal value, but this works for cap space for both teams for 22 man rosters. edmonton drops cap, we add cap but can just make it work. The canucks could always bury dickinson if they needed cap room. why edmonton does this: they can actually play hockey under the cap. all 5 players will make the team (dowling as depth) why canucks do this: clear poolman and avoid playing hoglander on the 4th where he doesn't belong, we also get a few good prospects in Bouchard and McLeod and the better defenceman. our center depth is greatly improved and we get bigger. Trades 1. VAN Bouchard, Evan Ceci, Cody McLeod, Ryan [RFA Rights] sign for 1.1 million? Ryan, DereK EDM Dowling, Justin Poolman, Tucker Schenn, Luke Höglander, Nils Joshua, Dakota ROSTER SIZE SALARY CAP CAP HIT OVERAGES BONUSES CAP SPACE 22 $82,500,000 $82,460,833 $1,250,000 $2,550,000 $39,167 Delete Signed Player Buyout Add to Trade Roster Left Wing Centre Right Wing Mikheyev, Ilya $4,750,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 4 Miller, J.T. $5,250,000 LW, C UFA - 1 Boeser, Brock $6,650,000 RW UFA - 3 Pearson, Tanner $3,250,000 LW M-NTC UFA - 2 Horvat, Bo $5,500,000 C UFA - 1 Garland, Conor $4,950,000 RW, LW UFA - 4 Kuzmenko, Andrei $950,000 LW UFA - 1 Pettersson, Elias $7,350,000 C, LW RFA - 2 Podkolzin, Vasily $925,000 LW, RW RFA - 2 Dickinson, Jason $2,650,000 C, LW UFA - 2 Lazar, Curtis $1,000,000 C, RW UFA - 3 McLeod, Ryan $1,100,000 C RFA Ryan, Derek $1,250,000 C, RW UFA - 1 Roster created at CapFriendly.com | Follow on Twitter @CapFriendly Left Defense Right Defense Goaltender Hughes, Quinn $7,850,000 LD UFA - 5 Ceci, Cody $3,250,000 RD UFA - 3 Demko, Thatcher $5,000,000 G UFA - 4 Ekman-Larsson, Oliver $7,260,000 LD NMC UFA - 5 Bouchard, Evan $863,333 RD RFA - 1 Martin, Spencer $762,500 G UFA - 2 Dermott, Travis $1,500,000 LD/RD RFA - 1 Myers, Tyler $6,000,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 2 Burroughs, Kyle $750,000 LD/RD UFA - 1 Scratches Injured Reserve (IR) Long Term IR (LTIR) Ferland, Micheal $3,500,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 1 Quote Edmonton would never do that ..lol..lol.. Most unrealistic..Never Only in NHL 2022 video game would that happen... . Bouchard 22, 6'3 - stud D man is worth so much alone..Future 50 point D man McLeod 23 6'3 - power forward- great skil Only good player Edmonton gets is Hoglander.... Bouchard.--- Vancouver Podkolzin - Edmonton.. Only way Vancouver get Bouchard....Don't think Bouchard would be in any trade to bright of future.. Break out season 2022 -- GP 75 - G 12 -- PTS 45--50 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chickenspear Posted September 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 13, 2022 I think even Mike Milbury would laugh and hang up at that offer. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 30 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: So, basically under your proposal, you're suggesting that Edmonton gut their team depth for Hoglander as he's the only guy on that list that they would find even remotely useful. Bouchard was their first round pick, 10th overall about 3 years ago, he's already a half a point per game player, even though he's not the fastest guy on the ice. If you included our 2023 1st round pick, not top 10 protected, you might have a chance of getting that trade done. edmonton has to give up value to make it under the cap. no one wants poolparty or yakisoba. i really want bouchard but probably not gonna happen. just remove hoglander, schenn and bouchard. trade still works we get mcleod for free for fixing thier cap problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: edmonton has to give up value to make it under the cap. no one wants poolparty or yakisoba. i really want bouchard but probably not gonna happen. just remove hoglander, schenn and bouchard. trade still works we get mcleod for free for fixing thier cap problems. Not true. Mike Smith ($2.2 million, 1 year left) and Oscar Klefbom ($4.167 million) are expected to be on LTIR. They're currently on IR but won't put them on LTIR until after the season starts to accrue that salary cap bump needed to be compliant. In other words, no real reason for them to do this trade. Edited September 13, 2022 by Phil_314 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyone Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) wait a second there.... Edmonton only has 1 nhl quality dman, and you want 2 of their cast offs? Edited September 13, 2022 by grumpyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 25 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: Not true. Mike Smith ($2.2 million, 1 year left) and Oscar Klefbom ($4.167 million) are expected to be on LTIR. They're currently on IR but won't put them on LTIR until after the season starts to accrue that salary cap bump needed to be compliant. In other words, no real reason for them to do this trade. actually not true. the have -6.78 million in space and smith and klefbom only account for 6.37 million. additionally they have eleven forwards and 8 dman signed. they could do something like demote derek ryan and mattias jannmark (Both make 1.25m) that would clear 2.25 million. they could also demote phillip broberg (863k cap). That would give them 2.713 million to bring in 3 forwards. sign Mcleod to 1.2 million?(hint he won't sign in edmonton for that little) and bring in two 750k salary players? sound like they need to remove cap to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Petey_BOI said: edmonton has to give up value to make it under the cap. no one wants poolparty or yakisoba. i really want bouchard but probably not gonna happen. just remove hoglander, schenn and bouchard. trade still works we get mcleod for free for fixing thier cap problems. They are cap compliant now with their LTIR and the fact that Broberg will start in the AHL. Assume that there will be a minor trade, likely to acquire another 2 - 3 million in LTIR and they will be set. They will run this season the same way that the Canucks will and roughly 1/3rd of the teams in the league. Watch for Edmonton to acquire Cary Price from Montreal, that will give them more than enough space to sign McLeod. I don't believe that they want to trade Puljujarvi or Yamamoto, but they probably could pretty easily if they wanted to. Biggest issue is the fact that all the teams that would be ready to trade for them, are stuck in a bad cap space, same as every other team in the league. You're trying to take advantage of a problem that doesn't actually exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 25 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: They are cap compliant now with their LTIR and the fact that Broberg will start in the AHL. Assume that there will be a minor trade, likely to acquire another 2 - 3 million in LTIR and they will be set. They will run this season the same way that the Canucks will and roughly 1/3rd of the teams in the league. Watch for Edmonton to acquire Cary Price from Montreal, that will give them more than enough space to sign McLeod. I don't believe that they want to trade Puljujarvi or Yamamoto, but they probably could pretty easily if they wanted to. Biggest issue is the fact that all the teams that would be ready to trade for them, are stuck in a bad cap space, same as every other team in the league. You're trying to take advantage of a problem that doesn't actually exist. 1. correct, if they demote broberg they will be cap compliant. but they will still only have 11 forwards, 7d and 2 Goalies signed with 463k cap space. this does not make a cap compliant roster possible. see my previous post on how they will have to decimate thier roster to just to get to somewhere playable. 2. LTIR doesn't work that way. too funny. LTIR is not an infitnite money loop, in fact LTIR contracts still count against the cap, the replacement space is a wash. 3. they may not want to trade puljarvi or yamamoto, but they may have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: 2. LTIR doesn't work that way. too funny. LTIR is not an infitnite money loop, in fact LTIR contracts still count against the cap, the replacement space is a wash. This is quoted directly from the NHL CBA on LTIR and is why Vegas traded for Shea Weber and why Edmonton may choose to trade for Price: When a team goes into LTIR, their effective salary cap, or upper limit, is changed. This adjusted upper limit is calculated as a function of the teams cap space and the player’s cap hit. This value is the “accruable cap space limit” (ACSL), and is the first value calculated. Second are the salary and performance bonus relief pools that are later explained below.The accruable cap space limit is the teams new upper limit excluding their LTIR relief pools. If the team operates below the ACSL, they begin to accrue cap space. A team can operate up to the ACSL without using their LTIR relief pools, once they operate above the ACSL, they begin to use their LTIR relief pools. In the majority of cases, a team using LTIR will be using their relief pools. Only in uncommon circumstances does a team operate below their ACSL. LTIR is a hole in the CBA, which the NHL chooses to ignore. Edited September 13, 2022 by VegasCanuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 1 minute ago, VegasCanuck said: This is quoted directly from the NHL CBA on LTIR and is why Vegas traded for Shea Weber and why Edmonton may choose to trade for Price: When a team goes into LTIR, their effective salary cap, or upper limit, is changed. This adjusted upper limit is calculated as a function of the teams cap space and the player’s cap hit. This value is the “accruable cap space limit” (ACSL), and is the first value calculated. Second are the salary and performance bonus relief pools that are later explained below.The accruable cap space limit is the teams new upper limit excluding their LTIR relief pools. If the team operates below the ACSL, they begin to accrue cap space. A team can operate up to the ACSL without using their LTIR relief pools, once they operate above the ACSL, they begin to use their LTIR relief pools. In the majority of cases, a team using LTIR will be using their relief pools. Only in uncommon circumstances does a team operate below their ACSL. you have no idea what this means right? it's ok, not most people do. What is LTIR? When a player has an injury of which they are expected to miss a minimum of 10 NHL games and 24 days in the NHL season, the team can place them on long term injured reserve (LTIR). LTIR can be used to exceed the salary cap. LTIR is a very complicated aspect of the NHL operations and the vast majority of details are not specified in the CBA. When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did. It also does not provide the club with additional cap-space savings that can be banked for future use while the team operates above the salary cap. Instead, LTIR provides relief if the club's averaged club salary, or payroll, begins to exceed the upper limit. The amount of relief that the club receives is calculated on the day the player is placed on LTIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: This is quoted directly from the NHL CBA on LTIR and is why Vegas traded for Shea Weber and why Edmonton may choose to trade for Price: When a team goes into LTIR, their effective salary cap, or upper limit, is changed. This adjusted upper limit is calculated as a function of the teams cap space and the player’s cap hit. This value is the “accruable cap space limit” (ACSL), and is the first value calculated. Second are the salary and performance bonus relief pools that are later explained below.The accruable cap space limit is the teams new upper limit excluding their LTIR relief pools. If the team operates below the ACSL, they begin to accrue cap space. A team can operate up to the ACSL without using their LTIR relief pools, once they operate above the ACSL, they begin to use their LTIR relief pools. In the majority of cases, a team using LTIR will be using their relief pools. Only in uncommon circumstances does a team operate below their ACSL. LTIR is a hole in the CBA, which the NHL chooses to ignore. That's not what it says. The upper limit is the total salary cap of the team PLUS whoever is on LTIR. So a team can exceed the salary cap only by the amount of LTIR. So if Edmonton acquired Price then his cap hit would simply be added to the upper limit, it wouldn't free up an additional $10 million in cap space. If that was the case Price would have been traded by now to many other teams. As for Vegas, they traded a player who's salary was already included in the total salary cap for a player that was on LTIR. They didn't actually accumulate any additional cap space. they simply moved money from the regular pool to the LTIR pool. This allowed them to decrease their upper limit by $5 million which allowed them to sign Roy. Weber's cap hit then was added to the upper limit to get them into LTIR. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 That's mostly crap coming from Van. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 57 minutes ago, Chris12345 said: That's mostly crap coming from Van. Exactly. Based on season reviews, Edmonton thinks Ceci is a fit next to Nurse. Bouchard is a regular now and 5v5 contributor (scored 36/43 points last season this way). McLeod's showing upside for a 3rd line C role at least. Derek Ryan's a 4th line C/ 3rd line wing next to McLeod (and the two of them had chemistry). So OP's looking at prying away both the Oilers' top-4 RHD (both their shutdown and scoring RD), and their 3rd line and 4th line C. In return, they get Dowling (AHL C), Poolman (injury prone, defensive D who's probably not even as good as Ceci), Hoglander (the "best part of this package" probably, yet coming off an off year), Schenn (another defensive RHD) and Joshua (at best probably tries to replace what Ryan brought). In short, I don't see McLeod or Bouchard moving (if we're generous and the Oil actually are in cap problems, then maybe Ceci moves). In short, we trade some pennies (Dowling, Poolman, Joshua) and quarters (Schenn, Hoglander) to get $3.50 (3 dollars and one guy in Ryan who's at least half decent). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 They wouldn't do that package for Ceci alone. Let alone throwing in Bouchard+. Lol. Run this through the video game and lemme know if even the CPU GM laughs at you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 lol nhl 22 the video game wouldn't even accept this deal.. any gm that remotely thinks there's value in this deal for edmonton will prolly be banished from the league for the rest of their life lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Good job Peter Boi on making a thread that's fun to read. So far ive learned this. The LTIR is clear as mud. It has its advantages, but they are rare and mostly around a teams ability to load up at the playoffs .... surprise surprise - Kucherov is healthy game one! Etc etc. Even made shirts "18 million over the cap" with him chugging his bud-lite ... what a character. I'd add two things to this thread. Bouchard would be a great add. Wanted him his draft year ... also liked Dobson. Those were my two picks. QHs of course worked out great. But i still would love to add a 22 year old RHD who was better then OJ his draft plus one year in London lol. As a rookie. Actually had visions of those two as a pair at the NHL level of course those were just wrong. Secondly .... I think it might be Steve Staois ... as the biggest trade we've ever had with EDM. There is a lot of history between these two clubs and Calgary. I simply don't see a blockbuster trade like this one (which for sure it is if Bouchard is included). As an aside, i suggested hard we sign Ceci, and was flamed hard by some fans just for doing that. After watching him in OTT, it was pretty obvious this guy belonged in this league. Which of course he's proving now. If Schenn works for QHs ... Ceci is an upgrade and actually a decent age. So a little told you so in that regard. And finally of course this trade won't happen. EDM needs their RHD as well, and Bouchard is already a fan favourite with a lot of fans who love him. Even making up nicknames for his shot. He's going to get 60-70 points once they wise up and take Nurse off the number one unit. Yes he's still learning the D side of the game ... but he's got size and is a great backwards skater (best of his draft class) ... if we could i'd make a hockey trade for him. But that door is iron clad shut with Smyl part of the management group and Holland at the helm. The only guys we will be trading are ones that haven't played much games if any in the NHL. Like Staois at the time and i liked him. Was a lot like Burroughs but with more skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Isn't Brandon Suter on LTIR in Vancouver along with Ferland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 hours ago, dpn1 said: Isn't Brandon Suter on LTIR in Vancouver along with Ferland? No. Sutter’s contract expired. He’s no longer a Canuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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