Its the D... Its always been the D. How is this so hard for GMs to understand?

[*Buzzsaw*]

Over the past 12 years we've see a team which was one of the best in the league when it came to defensemen, gradually lose that quality.

 

One after the other... the GM's of this team have prioritized offense, even focused their efforts on 3rd or 4th liners... and paid barely any attention to the glaring deficiencies on the blue line.

 

Yes, there is Quinn Hughes as the exception which proves the rule... he is a fine young player, and has improved defensively hugely over the last two years, but his focus has always been offense...  and he can't do it all on his own.

 

To see Luke Schenn leading the team in +/- is really pathetic.  Not that Schenn isn't a real gamer, and someone who deserves a pat on the back... but he shouldn't be tops on the Canucks.

 

Over the summer the new GM and his staff had a chance to rectify the problem... but what did they do?  Spent $5 million to acquire Ilya Mikheyev and seemed to put all their energy in signing additional offensive talent in the form of Andrei Kuzmenko or 3rd liners like Curtis Lazar.

 

Meanwhile free agent D like 6' 3" 232 lb Ben Chiarot and defensively reliable, 6' 2"  206 lb multiple Stanley Cup winner Oli Maata get ignored and signed by Detroit.  Chiarot for the same price as Mikheyev, Maata for half that at 2.5 mil... $500,000 less than Lazar.

 

Last season Boston made a deal for unrestricted free agent Hampus Lindholm which saw the hugely talented Swede, 6th overall pick in 2012 at 6' 4'' 216 lb, now 28 and the peak of his abilities, move from Anaheim and sign for 6.5 mil a year.  Yes, the trade price was high, but if you want quality, you pay for it.  Where are the Canucks when it comes to deals like this?

Now part way into the season the Canucks are scrambling to pick up the left-overs... sure Ethan Bear is a decent D, but should he be playing on a top pairing?  More like a 6/7.

 

This team has some excellent offensive players... we really don't need to add additional... what the team needs are quality defensemen.

 

When are the GMs of this team going to apply their efforts to acquire a decent defense?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by *Buzzsaw*

[Rush17]

Hughes

Bear 

Schenn 

 

Are the three D I'd like us to keep. Trade the rest.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

14 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Hughes

Bear 

Schenn 

 

Are the three D I'd like us to keep. Trade the rest.

Bear couldn't crack the Hurricanes lineup and Schenn would likely be a 7th defenceman on a team with a deep blueline. Not saying they're not valuable, but our defence need a bigger overhaul if we want to become a cup contending team.

[Devron]

17 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Hughes

Bear 

Schenn 

 

Are the three D I'd like us to keep. Trade the rest.

Same. Problem is we need 2 top 4 Dmen. How the hell are we going to pull that off 

[Coconuts]

Hughes is the only guy we've got who consistently looks like a top 4D 

 

The resulting record shouldn't surprise anyone at this point

[Junkyard Dog]

It's more than just the D-core but it is a huge part yeah.

 

Team D and the structure absolutely suck too.  That has due part to coaches and personnel.

 

JR might be right about the loose structure but has yet to do anything about that besides be passively critical of the coaching.

[fanfor42]

Under Martin 4 - 1 - 1

 

Under Demko 2 - 9 - 2

 

Same defense.  Better goaltending and the team is above .500.

 

Now are we a contender?  No.  But we are not this bad if Demko was  anything other than terrible.

 

If we had decent goaltending and were sitting above .500 the conversation would be we need to make a couple of moves to replace Myers and add another top 4 D and we would feel pretty good about things.

 

The way it is - with Demko so terrible - it makes the D look absolutely horrible and magnifies the problem 10 fold.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, fanfor42 said:

Under Martin 4 - 1 - 1

 

Under Demko 2 - 9 - 2

 

Same defense.  Better goaltending and the team is above .500.

 

Now are we a contender?  No.  But we are not this bad if Demko was  anything other than terrible.

 

If we had decent goaltending and were sitting above .500 the conversation would be we need to make a couple of moves to replace Myers and add another top 4 D and we would feel pretty good about things.

 

The way it is - with Demko so terrible - it makes the D look absolutely horrible and magnifies the problem 10 fold.

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol martin have been just as bad in his 4 wins.. 3 of them he gave up 4 goals or more.. we are just lucky we out scored the problem

[Drakrami]

JR's never been a D guy. Look at the D core over the years at Pittsburgh. He relies on "system" for defense so he can stack up on forwards every TDL. 

[Biff Tannen]

3 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Over the summer the new GM and his staff had a chance to rectify the problem... but what did they do?  Spent $5 million to acquire Ilya Mikheyev and seemed to put all their energy in signing additional offensive talent in the form of Andrei Kuzmenko or 3rd liners like Curtis Lazar.

 

Meanwhile free agent D like 6' 3" 232 lb Ben Chiarot and defensively reliable, 6' 2"  206 lb multiple Stanley Cup winner Oli Maata get ignored and signed by Detroit.  Chiarot for the same price as Mikheyev, Maata for half that at 2.5 mil... $500,000 less than Lazar.

 

Defence should've been addressed but I don't think signing Lazar was the problem. Maybe if he was on $3m, but he's getting $1m for 3 years.

[NHL97OneTimer]

3 hours ago, Devron said:

Same. Problem is we need 2 top 4 Dmen. How the hell are we going to pull that off 

Drafting or getting fleeced in a trade.  Either option right now looks good.  

[NHL97OneTimer]

3 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

It's more than just the D-core but it is a huge part yeah.

 

Team D and the structure absolutely suck too.  That has due part to coaches and personnel.

 

JR might be right about the loose structure but has yet to do anything about that besides be passively critical of the coaching.

Agree but most SC Champions have a pretty solid D with a Norris candidate.  The 2011 Canucks had a great D by committee without a true Norris candidate and I think that's as good as we've had it back there.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Agree but most SC Champions have a pretty solid D with a Norris candidate.  The 2011 Canucks had a great D by committee without a true Norris candidate and I think that's as good as we've had it back there.

Yup.  Gillis brought us great D like Hamhuis and Erhoff.  Two very important top four who rounded out our D core.  Benning wrecked our D.  He tried, but just brought in craperolla.  During those Benning years we should have been adding second and third round picks and sel3 ting lots of D in the drafts with those picks.  But our owner has always been in “win now” mode, so he encourages his GMs to give up futures in hopes to be better in the now.  Abject failure, except for the short Gillis era. 

[cripplereh]

It's mostly the D but goaltending has suffered and team play is the biggest problem.When we play good and get ahead we look good but only for 20 to 30 minutes most games.  

 

A team overhaul is what is needed.  

 

BB,Bo,Miller,Pearson 3 of the 4 has to go. Get a young D that should be top ,4. 

 

On D Stillman,Schenn,Myers,Rathbone all have to go. 

 

Demko has to be better or trade him as well. 

 

Off season pick up a goalie for couple years ,plus rhd and a forward or two plus bring in Johansson a defensive rhd.   

 

 

That's 7 or 8 gone for picks and one or two Ayers that include a young rhd and we should be better next year.

[Phat Fingers]

It’s the D.  
 

Scoring your way out of trouble doesn’t work if your D doesn’t stand up.

 

pun.

 

but it’s not a quick fix, take a magic pill and your D will be rock hard for hours longer than needed problem.

 

It requires surgery to fix this D.

 

IE, Draft, College Scouting, FA or Trade.

 

this when every Boomer GM is looking to get harder D all the time.

 

So getting the right deal is complicated and this start has been a disaster so the need to fix the problem for this year is less and less important.

 

each loss is a chance at a top pick.

 

No team in league history has tanked harder more strategically more times than the Pittsburgh Pens.

 

No team failed harder at tanking than the Edmonton Oilers, until McJesus.

 

Rutherford and Alvin can just let this go and deal away players and build anew around Hughes and Petey.

 

Or just stealth tank, trade Bo before a fantastic draft year and get a fantastic D Prospect and a fill in Center cap return, that is not a carry forward contract.

 

like a blue chip, cannot miss RHD prospect.

 

plus the Nucks are tanking hard.

 

Demko is not having a good year and the forwards are not getting back.

 

Bruce is the new Roger Neilson and this club is getting some rebalancing.

 

no a re tooling, not a re build, a re balancing,

 

the giant gaping hole on defence on the right side is not okay, it never was okay and has not been fixed since KB3 left.

 

Tanev leaving was a tragic miscue.

 

the last two homegrown players at that position to make the NHL.

 

Tanev was a rookie in the 2012 run.. 

 

not okay.

 

so spend some assets to fix the hole in the bucket, so carrying water in it makes sense.

 

or we are wasting our time.

 

if that takes Bo, then so be it.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Phat Fingers

[stawns]

The d needs work, but this is mostly a lazy, undisciplined fwd problem

[DrJockitch]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

The d needs work, but this is mostly a lazy, undisciplined fwd problem

This, except it is a lazy undisciplined player problem. It is all 5 skaters. 

[GB5]

8 hours ago, Rush17 said:

Hughes

Bear 

Schenn 

 

Are the three D I'd like us to keep. Trade the rest.

I agree, that is a solid group. Hughes requires no explanation, Schenn is a true warrior and Bear is engaged on every play and has been a steadying influence on OEL.

 

Problem being the other two big contracts on the back end. OEL may be a contract this team cannot move without giving up valuable assets, they need to try though. I do believe that Myers can be moved, one year left on his deal after this season makes him a bit more enticing.

 

Time to start building from the net out.

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by GB5

[MeanSeanBean]

7 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Under Martin 4 - 1 - 1

 

Under Demko 2 - 9 - 2

 

Same defense.  Better goaltending and the team is above .500.

 

Now are we a contender?  No.  But we are not this bad if Demko was  anything other than terrible.

 

If we had decent goaltending and were sitting above .500 the conversation would be we need to make a couple of moves to replace Myers and add another top 4 D and we would feel pretty good about things.

 

The way it is - with Demko so terrible - it makes the D look absolutely horrible and magnifies the problem 10 fold.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Martin has a 3.49 GAA and a save% of .898

 

This is not a goaltending issue, this is 100% a defense issue.

[stawns]

23 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

This, except it is a lazy undisciplined player problem. It is all 5 skaters. 

To some degree, but I don't see the dmen being lazy.........overwhelmed, a little sloppy maybe but they are working hard most shifts.  But the issues getting out of the zone falls mainly on fwds and after re-watching highlights from last night, there's far too many fwds standing around watching their checks skate right past them for chances.

 

The wingers have been atrocious, defensively.