(Rumour) 4 teams interested in J.T. Miller

[MaxVerstappen33]

6 hours ago, BPA said:

So Miller + Schenn to BOS for Carlo + 1st + Lysell.

Do it!!!! Let’s go!!!

Getting greedy. There's no way Boston ads a 1st. 

[N4ZZY]

5 hours ago, Nave said:

We don't need Kotkaniemi. We are getting a center in the top 5 of this draft. Miller is a way better player than Kotkaniemi, and has the flexibility to play on the wing. 

are getting a top 5 pick in this draft? 

 

 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

are getting a top 5 pick in this draft? 

 

 

We just moved our best goal scorer and faceoff guy and are likely moving out more pieces in the coming weeks. This on top of shutting down one of our better wingers.

 

It's quite probable we will be picking top 5.

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

We just moved our best goal scorer and faceoff guy and are likely moving out more pieces in the coming weeks. This on top of shutting down one of our better wingers.

 

It's quite probable we will be picking top 5.

well, let's hope so! the elite players are probably top 5, like the cream of the crop. 

 

there are good prospects to be had later in the first round, but the top five, is probably the elite of this draft class. the higher we pick, the better. could it be that we could have a good chance to getting Bedard? 

[DownUndaCanuck]

After acquiring and targeting Raty so hard, looks like we want to get a lot younger. Management's idea of a retool may be our idea of a rebuild in essence. Miller is pretty much 30 now and his contract really doesn't fit the bill. It would have if we were winning but we're not.

 

Not sure who can afford him though, maybe teams who lost out on Bo? 

 

Detroit/Boston/NJD? Doubt any of these teams qre stupid enough though the way Lou was.

 

Throw in Schenn and that's a great package, wonder if we can get a cap dump back and a 1st or 2nd?

 

I think Colorado is going to be the most desperate for a 2C. 

[DeNiro]

2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

After acquiring and targeting Raty so hard, looks like we want to get a lot younger. Management's idea of a retool may be our idea of a rebuild in essence. Miller is pretty much 30 now and his contract really doesn't fit the bill. It would have if we were winning but we're not.

 

Not sure who can afford him though, maybe teams who lost out on Bo? 

 

Detroit/Boston/NJD? Doubt any of these teams qre stupid enough though the way Lou was.

 

Throw in Schenn and that's a great package, wonder if we can get a cap dump back and a 1st or 2nd?

 

I think Colorado is going to be the most desperate for a 2C. 

They’re gonna be forced into a rebuild whether they like it or not through their incompetence and poor treatment of people.

 

Never seen a management group bumble their way through their first year on the job so badly.

 

It went from a 2 year rebuild is more than enough time to be good again, to now trading your captain and starting goalie. Won’t be long till we hear more names of players wanting out.

[DownUndaCanuck]

59 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

They’re gonna be forced into a rebuild whether they like it or not through their incompetence and poor treatment of people.

 

Never seen a management group bumble their way through their first year on the job so badly.

 

It went from a 2 year rebuild is more than enough time to be good again, to now trading your captain and starting goalie. Won’t be long till we hear more names of players wanting out.

Yep, I think a lot of our young good players are going to want out. Not sure how long Petey and Hughes put up with this. I think if they're still on a losing team when they're 25 their patience will run thin too.

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

well, let's hope so! the elite players are probably top 5, like the cream of the crop. 

 

there are good prospects to be had later in the first round, but the top five, is probably the elite of this draft class. the higher we pick, the better. could it be that we could have a good chance to getting Bedard? 

That the hope!

 

But I believe we're picking 6 as of today already. A top (bottom) 5... maybe even 3 finish isn't out of the realm of possibility after moving out Horvat and more.

 

Then it's up to the lotto.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

It went from a 2 year rebuild is more than enough time to be good again, to now trading your captain and starting goalie. Won’t be long till we hear more names of players wanting out.

Don't know if that's true... Move Demko for a good goalie prospect ++, sign/trade for a stop gap starter for a few years, draft a C high and a D with the Isles pick this year, keep adding solid 2 way guys like Mikheyev, Beauvilier etc to complement our skill guys, continue to move out ill fitting players/cap like Myers/Boeser/Garland (and please Gordie Miller) over the next year, target college/Euro UFA's, continue to draft and develop, continue to improve systems play/puck support through Tocchet...

 

This could all still be largely turned around in a couple years. Maybe not a "contender" in two years, but a far better positioned (depth, cap, youth) playoff team on the rise, absolutely.

 

Players just need to see a solid plan, well executed.

Edited February 1, 2023 by aGENT

[BPA]

3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

After acquiring and targeting Raty so hard, looks like we want to get a lot younger. Management's idea of a retool may be our idea of a rebuild in essence. Miller is pretty much 30 now and his contract really doesn't fit the bill. It would have if we were winning but we're not.

 

Not sure who can afford him though, maybe teams who lost out on Bo? 

 

Detroit/Boston/NJD? Doubt any of these teams qre stupid enough though the way Lou was.

 

Throw in Schenn and that's a great package, wonder if we can get a cap dump back and a 1st or 2nd?

 

I think Colorado is going to be the most desperate for a 2C. 

Don’t think Colorado is in the mix for Miller.  They didn’t keep Kadri.  Plus some COL players are getting big raises next year.

[ToTellTheTruth]

22 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I would too tbh. Carolina would only be taking on about 3M more annually and he'd act as their Pacioretty replacement. Plus, he's a winger who can take draws which is nice in a pinch. 

Miller is an offensively talented player who'd do well on a team that could insulate him better defensively, Carolina could do that. They're also getting to the point where they need to get off the fence or risk being a contender that never does anything. 

 

We'll have to take cap back in a Miller deal anyway, at least Kotkaniemi is young enough that he could bloom into more than he currently is. Fits the age of Pettersson and Hughes better. 

He would be the 2nd highest paid forward and the 3rd oldest. I don't think they would go this route unless it was for a rental. Kotkaniemi should not be considered coming this way.

22 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Kotkaniemi's buyout is also much more manageable if it gets to that point. 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/jesperi-kotkaniemi

Smaller cap hit but it last 14 years, too long for nothing and then goes and signs somewhere for half?

 

 

Miller with Schenn or Burroughs and retention for the remainder of his current contract could be attractive at the TDL.

 

There are a few playoff teams that could consider this and those teams will have cap space for the next contract whether Schenn is attached or not.

 

Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Winnipeg, St Louis, . The Canucks could make a trade work with most of those teams and they all have leadership to dampen Miller's intensity. Philly and Detroit maybe.

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Yep, I think a lot of our young good players are going to want out. Not sure how long Petey and Hughes put up with this. I think if they're still on a losing team when they're 25 their patience will run thin too.

The players and fans can't run the team. Canuck will live or die by what Rutherford and Allvin do over the next month. If players aren't on board then they have to go as well. Ottawa had the same situation when they cleaned house a few years ago. Are they a better team today? There aren't any guarantees in hockey. JR & PA could make all the right moves and the team could still flounder.  

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

He would be the 2nd highest paid forward and the 3rd oldest. I don't think they would go this route unless it was for a rental. Kotkaniemi should not be considered coming this way.

Smaller cap hit but it last 14 years, too long for nothing and then goes and signs somewhere for half?

 

 

Miller with Schenn or Burroughs and retention for the remainder of his current contract could be attractive at the TDL.

 

There are a few playoff teams that could consider this and those teams will have cap space for the next contract whether Schenn is attached or not.

 

Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Winnipeg, St Louis, . The Canucks could make a trade work with most of those teams and they all have leadership to dampen Miller's intensity. Philly and Detroit maybe.

Smaller cap hit than Miller's buyout, sure. And I'm assuming we wouldn't be buying him out right away if it got to that point, he'd likely get most of that contract to show something. Likely wouldn't be that long a buyout by the time it got to that point imo. Here's Miller's buyout, if we were to do in the offseason (which we won't, but for comparison's sake). https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/jt-miller

 

But like I said, two players at two completely different points. Kotkaniemi is 22 years old and currently looking to be overpaid or not, would likely provide a measure of value over the duration of his deal. Particularly as the cap goes up and deals go up in general. Likely looks uglier now than it would later capwise. He's also young enough that he could still develop into something good, and young enough that he would probably at least contribute in some way for the duration of his deal. 

 

Am I hellbent on acquiring him? Of course not. But I don't see it as the end of the world either. 

 

 

 

 

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Smaller cap hit but it last 14 years, too long for nothing and then goes and signs somewhere for half?

We wouldn't be buying him out right away. In 3 years, when we're looking to actually start being competitive, and potenitally decide we could better use the added $4m+ of cap space elsewhere, if he hasn't evolved in to either a REALLY good 3C or a solid 2C... the buyout would be minimal and only for 8 years at minimum NHL salary (half of that from 27-28 to 29-30).

 

Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT (CAR)
2026-27	$4,820,000	$4,820,000	$0	$850,833	$850,833	$3,969,167	$850,833
2027-28	$5,200,000	$4,820,000	$0	$850,833	$850,833	$4,349,167	$470,833
2028-29	$5,200,000	$4,820,000	$0	$850,833	$850,833	$4,349,167	$470,833
2029-30	$5,200,000	$4,820,000	$0	$850,833	$850,833	$4,349,167	$470,833
2030-31	$0	$0	$0	$850,833	$850,833	-$850,833	$850,833
2031-32	$0	$0	$0	$850,833	$850,833	-$850,833	$850,833
2032-33	$0	$0	$0	$850,833	$850,833	-$850,833	$850,833
2033-34	$0	$0	$0	$850,833	$850,833	-$850,833	$850,833
TOTAL	$20,420,000	$19,280,000	$0	$6,806,667	$6,806,667	$13,613,333	$5,666,664

 

 

Getting additional assets for taking on that deal + Miller's value AND getting out from the FAR bigger risk of Miller's contract (never mind the added $3.2m of cap space in the interim to utilize), could be WELL worth it IMO.

[DownUndaCanuck]

17 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We wouldn't be buying him out right away. In 3 years, when we're looking to actually start being competitive, and potenitally decide we could better use the added $4m+ of cap space elsewhere, if he hasn't evolved in to either a REALLY good 3C or a solid 2C... the buyout would be minimal and only for 8 years at minimum NHL salary (half of that from 27-28 to 29-30).

 

Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT (CAR)
2026-27	$4,820,000	$4,820,000	$0	$850,833	$850,833	$3,969,167	$850,833
2027-28	$5,200,000	$4,820,000	$0	$850,833	$850,833	$4,349,167	$470,833
2028-29	$5,200,000	$4,820,000	$0	$850,833	$850,833	$4,349,167	$470,833
2029-30	$5,200,000	$4,820,000	$0	$850,833	$850,833	$4,349,167	$470,833
2030-31	$0	$0	$0	$850,833	$850,833	-$850,833	$850,833
2031-32	$0	$0	$0	$850,833	$850,833	-$850,833	$850,833
2032-33	$0	$0	$0	$850,833	$850,833	-$850,833	$850,833
2033-34	$0	$0	$0	$850,833	$850,833	-$850,833	$850,833
TOTAL	$20,420,000	$19,280,000	$0	$6,806,667	$6,806,667	$13,613,333	$5,666,664

 

 

Getting additional assets for taking on that deal + Miller's value AND getting out from the FAR bigger risk of Miller's contract (never mind the added $3.2m of cap space in the interim to utilize), could be WELL worth it IMO.

Wonder how much they'd give us, maybe KK plus a 2nd or 3rd (they have two 2nds next year)?

 

Massive upgrade for them, a pretty useless 4M 3rd line center just wasting away under their better centers. Miller gives them an almost PPG scorer to replace Patches in the top 6.

 

If we want to have our cake and eat it too, how about a swap of defenders too to snag Morrow?

 

Miller + Schenn for KK + Morrow

 

I'd be happy with that, I'm sure most of CDC would be.

[stawns]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:44 AM, CanucksJay said:

Yeah  trading Miller would completely destroy centre depth. We have Miller pegged as 2c currently and he's more a winger than centre. 

Can Raty make the jump next year? I feel like he'd have to start at 3c if he was going to make the club

if they shed all the salary they can, they can hit the UFA market if need be.  iller is barely a C anyway

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Wonder how much they'd give us, maybe KK plus a 2nd or 3rd (they have two 2nds next year)?

 

Massive upgrade for them, a pretty useless 4M 3rd line center just wasting away under their better centers. Miller gives them an almost PPG scorer to replace Patches in the top 6.

 

If we want to have our cake and eat it too, how about a swap of defenders too to snag Morrow?

 

Miller + Schenn for KK + Morrow

 

I'd be happy with that, I'm sure most of CDC would be.

I'd even be happy with one of Seeley/Nikishin + a pick at this point.

[CanucksJay]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

if they shed all the salary they can, they can hit the UFA market if need be.  iller is barely a C anyway

Sure let's go sign a 2c from ufa... Im sure that'll work out well. 

Its kind of comical that we are so angry at the brass for being short sighted yet we suggest the same kind of nonsense... 

[stawns]

Just now, CanucksJay said:

Sure let's go sign a 2c from ufa... Im sure that'll work out well. 

Its kind of comical that we are so angry at the brass for being short sighted yet we suggest the same kind of nonsense... 

why?  There are no teams in the league built strictly from young players and/or draft picks.  That's a myth.

[CanucksJay]

22 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Wonder how much they'd give us, maybe KK plus a 2nd or 3rd (they have two 2nds next year)?

 

Massive upgrade for them, a pretty useless 4M 3rd line center just wasting away under their better centers. Miller gives them an almost PPG scorer to replace Patches in the top 6.

 

If we want to have our cake and eat it too, how about a swap of defenders too to snag Morrow?

 

Miller + Schenn for KK + Morrow

 

I'd be happy with that, I'm sure most of CDC would be.

If we sweeten the deal by adding Demko and they add Kochetkov, that might work. They get a bonafide starter and we get a younger up and coming goalie.