Lumme21 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 JR's plan is simply terrible. He says he wants to be competitive in 3 years. OEL's contract alone is 4 years away. There is no way this team can be competitive in 3 years, and they shouldn't be trying. He mentioned buy outs, that is a terrible idea as it cripples the future. Let the contracts run out or retain half salary if necessary (OEL, Boeser, Garland, Meyers). And even in 3 years, because they didn't trade Miller for future assets, they won't young guys on ELC to help them compete, especially if as JR said they are targeting 22-26 year old players. Until OEL's contract ends, they should be trying to rehabilitate failed prospects from other teams and rebuild their value, and taking other teams anchor contracts in exchange for picks so that in 4 years they truly will have both the cap space, and the prospects to maintain their cup winning window. On a side note, it is clear they will also try to resign Kuz. Kuz is already 26. The right move would be to trade Kuz for future picks. If they are so enamored with kuz they could still sign in the summer, but honestly any signings they make should be made with the thought of rehabilitating and gaining future value, not maintaining team competitiveness. Words are cheap. Actions are more telling. They signed Miller and Boeser to anchor contracts, added Kuz, and Mikheyev because they thought they could contend. They are admitting they want to resign Bo too (but are getting priced out) so where are the incoming picks? Clearing of cap space? Incoming prospects? Quote 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassbs Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 He says ownership doesn’t get involved yet he speaks of “retooling”. Benning said the same thing. Clearly ownership does not want a full rebuild. guarantee if JR said rebuild he would be fired tomorrow 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 hours ago, kilgore said: This Miller bashing is getting ridiculous. You honestly think Miller is "another OEL type veteran"? What each bring to the team is night and day. The strong possibility of a buyout in the last years of a long term contract for a top player is not unusual, and probably more common than not. Its a concern, but we are years away from worrying about that. If it did turn out to be a choice between Bo or JT, I'd still rather have JT on the team in the next few years. Miller has been more consistent and has produced at a much higher level than Bo. Except for this one freak year that just happens to be Bo's retirement contract year. Hmmmmm. Sorry, but I completely see why JR would pick JT over Bo, if that was what ended up happening, even if it wasn't the plan. To make sure he got JT signed before pivoting to Bo's contract. But I think JR was still hoping to sign Bo right after JT was signed, but only set enough of the cap aside to pay Bo for what he has pushed his worth to up to that point, and nothing more. And that's smart, as I do not think Bo will ever match this season, and will go back to his usual 50 points give or take. I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth in here if we signed Bo for 8 x 8 and watch him go back to his non physical, slower every year, non PKer, usual 50 point pace. JT has proven himself a much more consistent and valuable piece on this team Bo doesn't give up on plays like a bitch, he's two years younger, and he plays center. Way better then Miller for where this club is at. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I'll never understand this team. They are shopping our most valuable assets for guys who are: -Mid 20s -Past ELC -On/Need risky bridge deal -Been struggling We cannot be serious. If you focus picks and just recently drafted prospects, A handful will be pushing for spots at the 24' / 25' season. The same time alot of cap is open up. The same time EP and huggy are entering prime years. OR we have valuable trade chips for the ready now guys everyone wants. But rocket appliances 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassbs Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Can we just kidnap yzermam, and force him to be our GM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said: I'll never understand this team. They are shopping our most valuable assets for guys who are: -Mid 20s -Past ELC -On/Need risky bridge deal -Been struggling We cannot be serious. If you focus picks and just recently drafted prospects, A handful will be pushing for spots at the 24' / 25' season. The same time alot of cap is open up. The same time EP and huggy are entering prime years. OR we have valuable trade chips for the ready now guys everyone wants. But rocket appliances He said 24/25 OR younger. People latch on to comments too much in this fan base. I’m sure if someone offers a 1st or 2nd for Schenn he’ll gladly take it. It’s not like he won’t take picks back. He’s already said many times they’d like to add picks, especially a 2nd. When it comes to trading Bo though his preference is getting a young player back. Someone like a Dawson Mercer is probably the type of player he’s talking about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumme21 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 16 minutes ago, stawns said: yup, really. A top 2 dman and a 40-50 point guy, for Guenther? I'll take that every time OEL is hardly a top 2 dman. You are also missing the opportunity cost as OEL and Garland combine to make over 13 Million. I can think of so many better ways of spending 13 Million, let alone also giving up a 1st (Guenther) and also the 2022 2nd round pick. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Lumme21 said: OEL is hardly a top 2 dman. You are also missing the opportunity cost as OEL and Garland combine to make over 13 Million. I can think of so many better ways of spending 13 Million, let alone also giving up a 1st (Guenther) and also the 2022 2nd round pick. he's top 2 of the bottom 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, tas said: he's top 2 on a bottom 3 team. FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 2 hours ago, RWJC said: That’s not the point so much about a contract aging well. When you see a guy like Boldy or Thompson get the term and money they did, you absolutely have to realize that the economic scale is changing in the NHL and the guys who get term and $$$ are young and have a foreseeably long career ahead of them in that jersey. That’s who you save your big contracts for, especially if the mgmt group is discussing becoming much younger. I think JTM could be of good value, but his very notable negative aspects negate that. Add on the contract and term, and we will be talking Myers and OEL all over again in a couple years. No one wants him now at the price we paid…and he’s going to be depreciating. He is a buyout waiting to happen. stupid f’n move. that money adds up, rising cap doesn’t offset it, just absorbs it. Just like what is happening with the club right now. Cap used to absorb shitty, ball and chain contracts. only way to salvage would be deal JTM at TDL this year. Otherwise, prepare for that contract to be a topic of conversation for the rest of this decade. People are always saying stuff like the cap will go up, he is actually around market value, he's still producing right now. Who cares, a bad contract is a bad contract and when the landscape is so bleak every little mistake kills off a part of the tiny chance to recover from this nose dive. JR: Hey this team is f#*ked for the forseeable future. Who is this Miller guy and who signed him? He'll be washed up by the time we are competitive. Allvin: Well we did, you told me to do it this summer. Jim. JR: Hmmmm, hmmmmm, yes, yes I see. Well that was very stupid of me wasn't it? Allvin: Well time to have a press conference for all the suck ... er I mean fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 6 hours ago, McBackup said: “We’re not moving toward a rebuild, I prefer the term retool. We want younger players not draft picks.” Oh good. It’s Benning in 2014 all over again. I don’t know why they insist on keeping with this strategy that hasn’t worked and this core that hasn’t proven anything. The difference is Benning didn’t have a young elite center man, defenseman, and good #1 goalie, all under 25 or so, to build his retool on, they have that. If Vegas and Seattle could build good teams from scratch, I believe the Canucks can do a re-tool with those players in a mid-short term. The biggest challenge for the Canucks is not to find good players to surround these guys, it’s finding cap space to bring them here. imagine having waited out LE and not having OEL and Gunther in the prospect bank. The Canucks would be in a totally different (very good) situation right now. Yet it would be the same roster but with a ton of cap flexibility that one desperate last move by Benning really screwed us long term. I honestly think we aren’t that far away. The problem isn’t as much as finding players for that re-tool, but rather finding cap space. Therefore, the margin for error is very slim. My definition of a rebuild is trading away EQ, EP and TD for a bunch of picks and prospect. There is no guarantee those pick will reach the potential of these guys. My definition of a re-tool is considering trading everyone except these three. so it depends how each one sees it IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerofaith Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Based on that presser, whether JR knows it or not he’s repeating the EXACT same mistakes that The previous regime made. he should care about what happend before he got here, after all that’s what history is. And to not learn from history you’re doomed to make the same mistakes. he said things that many of us already know and we’re clamouring for before this year. he should really think about having a think tank of fans to expand his myopic views on this team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 12 minutes ago, shiznak said: It’s sorta alarming that Jim is looking for young players who are off their entry level deals, that need a second chance. We’ve already tried this experiment and it went horribly wrong. Devil's advocate here... "Everybody" keeps saying something like this, but just because a different group of managers did this particular game plan poorly in the past, does not mean new managers will also do a similar game plan poorly. And numerous teams have in fact "retooled" around existing cores successfully, Rangers, LA etc. Retools don't inherently have to fail, just because our previous one did. At the very least, based on what I've seen, I've got more confidence in new managements ability to pro scout and perhaps more importantly, see the types/fit of pieces the roster needs, to improve. All of Kuz, Mik, Bear etc have been good additions, and Mik especially is EXACTLY what this roster needs more of at F. Now this certainly may not happen as Bo, Kuz etc are big question marks re: retaining them at the moment, but assuming you can retain the good pieces over the next couple years, we could do a lot worse than a retool around: Mik, EP, Kuz *Miller(?), Horvat, ____ Podz, ____, Hoglander Hughes, ____ OEL, ____ ____, Bear Demko (*I'd still personally prefer Miller moved... but we'll see what happens). We have plenty of prospects (including Hogs/Podz) that can fill out the wings in our bottom 9 over the next couple years. We need a GOOD 3C from somewhere. We need some solid, defense first, good skating D to play in the top 4, right side and to find/develop a younger "left handed Schenn" for our 3LD. That's mission hard, not mission impossible IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I think of all the mishaps that have happened this year, so many vets floundering, OEL and Myers getting exposed. Poolman and Dermott being injured.New coaching dropping behind. The biggest setback was Demko's injury. If he was good Demko we could have hung onto a few more leads. Won some close games. And we didn't have anyone to replace him. Out of desperation we gambled a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) This is quickly sprialling into some very dark times for this franchise and fanbase. Earlier on I was defending this new management team but I'm quickly realizing all I'm hearing and seeing is dysfunction. There doesn't seem to be much hope for awhile....this team does have bad contracts and we may be stuck with them. Aquilini needs to sell...this franchise needs a fresh start and an owner who can read his fanbase and has a hockey mind. JR and PA did inherit a mess....but they haven't made it any easier on themselves either Edited January 17, 2023 by Harold Drunken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: I think of all the mishaps that have happened this year, so many vets floundering, OEL and Myers getting exposed. Poolman and Dermott being injured.New coaching dropping behind. The biggest setback was Demko's injury. If he was good Demko we could have hung onto a few more leads. Won some close games. And we didn't have anyone to replace him. Out of desperation we gambled a 2nd. Yup. This team seriously under performed, and goaltending is a position they relied on the most. JR was right when after the last season end press conference, and said the team relied on the goalie too much, poor D system. At the time, I was bit disappointed about what he implied about Bruce, but it turns out to be all true. He says it here in the first minute. Edited January 17, 2023 by Jaimito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Locke Lamora said: As dull as Allvin is, he really should have been there beside Rutherford for the presser. Allvin not being there IMO is indicative of his role on the team. If it's clear that JR's calling all the shots then what exactly is Allvin here to do? This entire management group needs to go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AriGold Posted January 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2023 I will be cancelling my full season tickets after this press conference. I'm not interested in paying 10K for year 12 of the re-tool. I want a rebuild... Keep all the bad contracts and let them play out during the rebuild... OEL has 4 years left, that's perfect... Trade literally everybody on the team for draft picks and just drafted players. 4 2 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimsWithDucks Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 32 minutes ago, Lumme21 said: JR's plan is simply terrible. He says he wants to be competitive in 3 years. OEL's contract alone is 4 years away. There is no way this team can be competitive in 3 years, and they shouldn't be trying. He mentioned buy outs, that is a terrible idea as it cripples the future. Let the contracts run out or retain half salary if necessary (OEL, Boeser, Garland, Meyers). And even in 3 years, because they didn't trade Miller for future assets, they won't young guys on ELC to help them compete, especially if as JR said they are targeting 22-26 year old players. Until OEL's contract ends, they should be trying to rehabilitate failed prospects from other teams and rebuild their value, and taking other teams anchor contracts in exchange for picks so that in 4 years they truly will have both the cap space, and the prospects to maintain their cup winning window. On a side note, it is clear they will also try to resign Kuz. Kuz is already 26. The right move would be to trade Kuz for future picks. If they are so enamored with kuz they could still sign in the summer, but honestly any signings they make should be made with the thought of rehabilitating and gaining future value, not maintaining team competitiveness. Words are cheap. Actions are more telling. They signed Miller and Boeser to anchor contracts, added Kuz, and Mikheyev because they thought they could contend. They are admitting they want to resign Bo too (but are getting priced out) so where are the incoming picks? Clearing of cap space? Incoming prospects? Well said. You should be both President and GM of the Canucks. Definitely would do a better job than the fools we have now running the show 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 47 minutes ago, whcanuck said: To quote Xander Harris from Buffy the Vampire Slayer “A black eye heals Buffy, but cowardice has an unlimited shelf life!” Was that before, or after Caleb poked his eye out? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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