[PGT] Detroit Red Wings at Vancouver Canucks | Feb. 13, 2023

[combover]

27 minutes ago, TeamTurmoil said:

This team already plays with more structure. You can see it. RT was brought in for accountability. Bruce is a players coach, guys get lax under those coaches. Ricks here to whip people into shape and figure out who you can go to war with. 

Oh man 

the catch phrase gingles really do work 

“ accountability”

”structure” 

foundational blah blah blah 

Those are nothing more than hollow words to sell a crap product. 
 

hey how’d  the team do after Bruce took over … 

if they’re playing with new found “structure” and “accountability”  

why is it the expected goals against is higher than Bruce’s last ten games … uh oh that doesn’t sound like accountability….

RT fist 8 expect goals 4

bruce last ten expected goal 3.9

 

we’re  scoring less and still allowing 5 that’s structure and accountability better bench the goal scoring top 3 forward and insert a plug … that sounds like willie D and Travis green. 

 

I  don’t buy crap because it says it isn’t crap 

 

RT might be a good coach but the group of players sucks as Travis and bruce found out Rick will too. 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by combover

[Goal:thecup]

11 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Oh, those 80s were brutal.

[johngould21]

39 minutes ago, TeamTurmoil said:

This team already plays with more structure. You can see it. RT was brought in for accountability. Bruce is a players coach, guys get lax under those coaches. Ricks here to whip people into shape and figure out who you can go to war with. 

NO, it doesn't. Usually a coaching change brings in a bit of a bump, I've seen nothing of the sort. The Bruce bump last season would have been epic had Demko not gotten injured. Bruce was dealt a lousy hand starting with how the season began, Demko being injured and two AHL goalies, plus the incompetence of a management group to allow a veteran coach to twist in the wind as they did.

[rychicken]

28 games left....if we need 95 points to make the playoffs we have to go 23-2-3.....gotta be honest, I'm starting to lose hope

[johngould21]

3 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Oh, those 80s were brutal.

I remember one game in particular, the Canucks were up 4-0 on the Oilers going into the second period. Gretzky and company went to work, game over. The Oiler teams padded their stats against the Canucks for sure.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Whether this does anything is still under question. This is a meaningless season. That being said, I do like Tocchet more than I thought. I'd like to see him be given one full season at least.

I'm fully prepared to suck next year as well. 

 

We need to crawl before we can run. 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Barnstorm]

8 minutes ago, rychicken said:

28 games left....if we need 95 points to make the playoffs we have to go 23-2-3.....gotta be honest, I'm starting to lose hope

[Dazzle]

14 minutes ago, rychicken said:

28 games left....if we need 95 points to make the playoffs we have to go 23-2-3.....gotta be honest, I'm starting to lose hope

We have approximately a 0.1 percent chance of making the playoffs, according to a chart on TV. We have virtually no shot of making the playoffs.

[Devron]

5 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Legend 

[Barnstorm]

Just now, Dazzle said:

We have approximately a 0.1 percent chance of making the playoffs, according to a chart on TV. We have virtually no shot of making the playoffs.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Jack in the box]

[Mustard Tiger]

39 minutes ago, rychicken said:

28 games left....if we need 95 points to make the playoffs we have to go 23-2-3.....gotta be honest, I'm starting to lose hope

Dang. Just a Bo re signing, 1 dman and a 3c away from a contender according to soo sooo many though... 

[Smashian Kassian]

9 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

It's been a while now under Tocchet, I know coaches need a lot of time to get their systems in place and change bad habits, but we've looked dreadful under Rick as well. Absolutely zero difference whatsoever. At least under BB we were scoring loads. Right now we're seeing a lack of scoring with no Bo or Mikheyev and a more conservative offence (much more dumping the puck in, even from our top line), while the defencemen still make dreadful defensive plays leading to goals against. This might be the worst pit the Canucks have been in in a long time. Getting blown up defensively and only Petey out there to score.

 

Don't think we should expect to see meaningful difference until next season. They aren't practicing much & it's a lost season.

 

[higgyfan]

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

It's almost laughable. That first shot against Martin is most likely going in. 

 

The D is an issue for sure, but the goaltending is the #1 problem IMO.

 

I do wonder what Demko's future holds and if a trade will be made to bring in a different goalie at some point (next season?). I've heard rumours of Tristan Jarry (PIT)

 

Canucks can't seem to play Hockey, but they can play Tank pretty well.

 

 

Jarry plays on a better team than Demko, so it's hard to say he would be an upgrade.  He is also a UFA

this season, so he'll be looking for a new contract. 

 

The good thing is that the TDL gives the Canucks time to see where Demko's game is. He still has another

3yrs @ $5m on his contract, which may factor into their decision.

 

Keep in mind that the top goalie in the league right now, couldn't have the same stats playing on the

current Canuck 'leaky boat' team.

 

 

[alt kilgore]

9 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

It's been a while now under Tocchet, I know coaches need a lot of time to get their systems in place and change bad habits, but we've looked dreadful under Rick as well. Absolutely zero difference whatsoever. At least under BB we were scoring loads. Right now we're seeing a lack of scoring with no Bo or Mikheyev and a more conservative offence (much more dumping the puck in, even from our top line), while the defencemen still make dreadful defensive plays leading to goals against. This might be the worst pit the Canucks have been in in a long time. Getting blown up defensively and only Petey out there to score.

I think its very predictable that a coach that is trying to just start to implement a different, more strictly defensive system, that...

1. it will take time to adapt to it, know where you should be, or even have practice time to learn it. Not just learn it, but get it down so its second nature. And so goals against won't get much better, at least not yet.

2. For the same reasons and being paranoid about being treated like Kuz, players are not freewheeling as much, less taking creative chances, and so less goals for.

 

I agree with Smash that we can't really judge Tocchet's success until a few months into next season. Especially not even knowing what roster he will have to work with.  I can see there may be enough time that the team starts to play more like a Tocchet team nearing the end of the season, but this time til the end of the season is all about evaluation and breaking the team down to build them up for next fall.  

 

 

[grumpyone]

having played goal before, I don't think that goaltending is the problem.

The Dmen have let WAY too many passes get to places on the ice where the goalie has vertually no chance in ( you know where ) of making the save, ok, maybe 1 or 2 chances in 100. The number of tap ins and screened shots that go in are not on the goalie. You can't save something that you can't see. 

Shoring up the D core, and getting them to actually defend is the conundrum. 

Goalies get frustrated with the lack of 'help' that they get in stopping the puck. This leads to goalies trying to do too much on their own;ie: Martin coming out of the crease too far to try to take away the angle on the shot...teams see this and pass around him for the easy tap in.

 

The canucks as a team have the worst case of back karma when it comes to puck luck. I have never seen ANY team score more goals on themselves, bounces off legs/sticks/faces/etc. 

 

Personally I would:

 Bear & Schenn( re-sign both for 2 more)

do whatever it takes to trade Meyers, Dermott, and probably Stillman.

Keep OEL for another 2 years before trying to buy out. ( costs too much to do it now )

use Hughes, Burroughs, OEL, Bear, Schenn, Juulsen, Rathbone, Briesbois as your D core until more established D men can be brought in.

Younger dmen can be taught easier than old goats to play more disciplined. Not as many bad habits to break.

Forward wise I would explore trading JT, Boeser, Garland and Studnika. 

JT is too inconsistent for the money he'll get next year. A clear case of sluffing off once the big contract is signed.

Boeser showed last night on that 2 on 1 flub that he has lost that scoring touch. dump the bum.

Garland and Studnika can be add on's to clear cap space. Bring up some young guns to fill their skates. 

We should be running the team at least 10 million UNDER the cap ceiling, thus giving us wiggle room for when we need to re-sign contracts.( ie: Petey for $10.5 )

 

 

 

[jyu]

1 hour ago, combover said:

Oh man 

the catch phrase gingles really do work 

“ accountability”

”structure” 

foundational blah blah blah 

Those are nothing more than hollow words to sell a crap product. 
 

hey how’d  the team do after Bruce took over … 

if they’re playing with new found “structure” and “accountability”  

why is it the expected goals against is higher than Bruce’s last ten games … uh oh that doesn’t sound like accountability….

RT fist 8 expect goals 4

bruce last ten expected goal 3.9

 

we’re  scoring less and still allowing 5 that’s structure and accountability better bench the goal scoring top 3 forward and insert a plug … that sounds like willie D and Travis green. 

 

I  don’t buy crap because it says it isn’t crap 

 

RT might be a good coach but the group of players sucks as Travis and bruce found out Rick will too. 

 

 

You are right.

 

The main problem is personnel and the secondary problem is coaching. But who is responsible for the personnel? Management. 

 

Bruce had a great forechecking team in his first season. We did give up quite a bit but the forechecking game slowed the opponents down from their own zone + Demko saves is how we won games.  

 

Second season, forechecking game diminished. Partly because good assistant coaches left. And partly because Miller reverted back to wing and our center depth eroded away. But the more importantly and simply, we lost good forecheckers.

 

Last season we had Miller-Horvat-EP-Lammikko.

 

Lammikko's line played fast and did a great job forechecking. I remember seeing that they held around 50% CF (I haven't checked this), which is what you want from a checking line.

 

With Miller, Horvat, and EP being centers that can push the play in the right direction for the most part, when your 4th line holds 50% CF, you've got 4 lines that can roll.

 

And somehow that entire line was jettisoned for slower guys like Joshua, Lazar, and Aman. I like these guys but they are not fast and they are not great forecheckers.

 

And once Miller became a winger, we had EP-Horvat-Dries-Aman as centers. Good luck winning games with that bottom 6 forecheckers and while EP-Horvat are good, they are not top 10 in the league good. So we struggled and Bruce was scapegoated.

 

The management got off to such a terrible start to their tenure here. I would usually support the new people and give them time but JR and company aren't earning much trust.

 

 

[johngould21]

19 minutes ago, kilgore said:

I think its very predictable that a coach that is trying to just start to implement a different, more strictly defensive system, that...

1. it will take time to adapt to it, know where you should be, or even have practice time to learn it. Not just learn it, but get it down so its second nature. And so goals against won't get much better, at least not yet.

2. For the same reasons and being paranoid about being treated like Kuz, players are not freewheeling as much, less taking creative chances, and so less goals for.

 

I agree with Smash that we can't really judge Tocchet's success until a few months into next season. Especially not even knowing what roster he will have to work with.  I can see there may be enough time that the team starts to play more like a Tocchet team nearing the end of the season, but this time til the end of the season is all about evaluation and breaking the team down to build them up for next fall.  

 

 

they can't get any lower, as they've probably hit rock bottom, mentally getting them back is going to prove difficult.