Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[Seannnp]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

Even if Raty hits (and I think he will), they still need at least two possible top level C in the system, imo.

I think we accomplish that in this years draft with the 11OA and possibly in later rounds or the following year. If they can address the top 4 this off season and draft a center in the draft. They will focus on drafting more centers next season. 

[Ted Lasso]

Wonder what our current D could do healthy, and with a full camp with our new coaching staff/systems.

 

Would be great to set the pairings early in the preseason to form chemistry. Maybe let Hughes pick his own partner, then optimize from there.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Seannnp said:

Sign Graves now that Gavrikov seems to be close to signing an extension with the Kings. Really like Graves and how hes played this year with the Devils. I think he would be perfect. He's a right shot defenseman, no? 

 

Hughes and Graves

OEL and Hronek 

Hirose and Burroughs 

Graves would be a solid partner for Hughes. Severson as well. Hopefully management find a way to free up enough cap space to make this happen. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Seannnp said:

Sign Graves now that Gavrikov seems to be close to signing an extension with the Kings. Really like Graves and how hes played this year with the Devils. I think he would be perfect. He's a right shot defenseman, no? 

 

Hughes and Graves

OEL and Hronek 

Hirose and Burroughs 

Graves is a left shot D.  Unless we get rid of some contracts we don't have the money for Graves.  But I would love to see him partner with Hronek...

[MeanSeanBean]

32 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Those first two articles from Pittsburgh are from a one line quote from Elliotte Friedman.  The two articles from Vancouver don't even mention a source and are talking about Rathbone's value more than anything.

 

In any event, Marino went for a first (Ty Smith 17OA) and a 3rd.  Hronek and a 4th went for a 1st and a 2nd.  So the trade is identical.  Hronek is a more offensive Dman than Marino, plays the PP and also the PK and broke out this year with his best year ever so far at age 25.  Marino is basically a defensive Dman who doesn't play the PP at all.  They are quite different players.  The fact that Allvin admitted that he followed Hronek for over a year tells me he targeted that player and wanted that particular type of Dman to compliment Hughes on the right side.

 

Getting a defensive Dman will be easier to partner with Hughes.  Hronek is capable of carrying his own pairing on the 2nd unit and also adding offence to that pairing and on the 2nd unit PP...

Again, do we ever get hard sources in hockey? I really don't know what your requesting here. GMs, who are the only ones that truely known whats going on almost never speak of potential trades. But when people from both sides report talks are happening, it's fair to assume talks were happening.

 

I don't think Hronek is the fix to this team. Yes, he makes the team better. But we already have Hughes, OEL, and Myers (for now) who are offensively inclined defensemen. I would much rather have traded for Marino who would actually fill a need for us on D then adding more offense. This playoff has once again showed that "defense wins championships" isn't just a saying.

 

22 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

It doesn't mean that Marino was available to the Canucks in any way. Ty Smith is essentially a 1st round pick (17th OA). Who could we have traded, as a comparable on our roster ?

 

 

Do you still think Smith was worth a first. I believe he progress hadn't been what was hoped and his value was closer to a 2nd. He's a player I actually did follow on and off because I liked him in his trade year.

 

35 minutes ago, spook007 said:

How big a difference is a 1st +2nd-4th v a 1st + a 4th... if you really like a player, I don't really think there is that big a difference. 

Again, that's if Smith was a 1st. I think he was closer to a 2nd in value. A few picks can pick up a good player like Bjorkstand. That's why assets are worth keeping.

[Coconuts]

16 minutes ago, stawns said:

Even if Raty hits (and I think he will), they still need at least two possible top level C in the system, imo.

Agreed, best case scenario you have someone to replace Miller (if he's still around at whatever point) and someone who can play wing. Or things align where you've got Pettersson and two most team/cost controlled players backing him up at center. 

[mll]

.

Edited May 17, 2023 by mll

[erkayloomeh]

I need to see how he performs in a canuck uniform

We are in a position where we can't rebuild and wait for picks to develope because of where we are at with Pete, Quinn and demko

  There are to many good pics here to rebuild.

Our main thing is cap, no gritty douchy players and a great stay at home d.

But we have a great few players to build around. 

That was the reason for the trade. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

There's a voice ... that keeps on calling him ... down the RHD road, that's inside CDC.

 

Every stop Hronek makes, he make a new friend ... can't stay for long, his shoulder hurts, he's gone again.

 

Maybe tomorrow, we'll want young RHD. Until tomorrow, the debate keeps moving on.

[mll]

11 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Again, do we ever get hard sources in hockey? I really don't know what your requesting here. GMs, who are the only ones that truely known whats going on almost never speak of potential trades. But when people from both sides report talks are happening, it's fair to assume talks were happening.

 

I don't think Hronek is the fix to this team. Yes, he makes the team better. But we already have Hughes, OEL, and Myers (for now) who are offensively inclined defensemen. I would much rather have traded for Marino who would actually fill a need for us on D then adding more offense. This playoff has once again showed that "defense wins championships" isn't just a saying.

 

Do you still think Smith was worth a first. I believe he progress hadn't been what was hoped and his value was closer to a 2nd. He's a player I actually did follow on and off because I liked him in his trade year.

 

Again, that's if Smith was a 1st. I think he was closer to a 2nd in value. A few picks can pick up a good player like Bjorkstand. That's why assets are worth keeping.

The way Fitzgerald explained how the Marino deal went down sounded like he was confident that Pittsburgh wasn't going to talk to other teams and that if he got dealt it would be to NJD.  Explained that everyone in hockey knew that Pittsburgh would need to clear cap space so he called them up already ahead of the TDL to talk Marino, although he knew the deal wouldn't get done before the summer with Pittsburgh heading to the playoffs.  Was then just about being patient to know whether they would move on from him or not. 

[PhillipBlunt]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

There's a voice ... that keeps on calling him ... down the RHD road, that's inside CDC.

 

Every stop Hronek makes, he make a new friend ... can't stay for long, his shoulder hurts, he's gone again.

 

Maybe tomorrow, we'll want young RHD. Until tomorrow, the debate keeps moving on.

[Coconuts]

Severson keeps popping up as a name of interest but I'd be pretty surprised if we could afford him. 29 in August and this will likely be his last crack at getting a large contract, he's played his entire career with Jersey and has never made more than his current 4.1M. Dude put up 33 points in 81 games this season, 46 in 80 last season. He's hit at least 30 points 5 times. 

 

More than likely he'll be one of the most sought after RD and he won't come cheap. 

[spook007]

21 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Again, do we ever get hard sources in hockey? I really don't know what your requesting here. GMs, who are the only ones that truely known whats going on almost never speak of potential trades. But when people from both sides report talks are happening, it's fair to assume talks were happening.

 

I don't think Hronek is the fix to this team. Yes, he makes the team better. But we already have Hughes, OEL, and Myers (for now) who are offensively inclined defensemen. I would much rather have traded for Marino who would actually fill a need for us on D then adding more offense. This playoff has once again showed that "defense wins championships" isn't just a saying.

 

Do you still think Smith was worth a first. I believe he progress hadn't been what was hoped and his value was closer to a 2nd. He's a player I actually did follow on and off because I liked him in his trade year.

 

Again, that's if Smith was a 1st. I think he was closer to a 2nd in value. A few picks can pick up a good player like Bjorkstand. That's why assets are worth keeping.

I was referring to your friend saying he thought Hronek was worth a 1st and a 4th..

and don't see much difference between a 1st and a 4th v a1st+2nd-4th which was the deal for Hronek. 
 

Of course picks has value. But if you want a rhd getting a Bjorkstrand doesn't help (I know, it was just an example ) but the point is, if management really want a player, and he becomes available, you don't wait until summer, hoping he will be there or another will be available. You take him, if you feel the price is right. 
Its a fair argument, that if you put yourself in a corner, you may not get full value for the player(s), you may trade to make room for the player aquired... but that's secondary, if you really want a player. 

[Grape]

On 5/16/2023 at 10:21 AM, HorvatToBaertschi said:

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? This is why we're hated as a fanbase. 

Lol this is not why people “hate us as a fan base.” They used to “hate us” because we were a rabid fanbase with an elite team filled with pests like Burrows, Kesler. People pity us now. No rival fan looks at a Canucks fan reacting poorly to one of the many ill-advised moves management has made, and says “ugh why are the so negative?” In fact, our lack for rivals nowadays speaks to how no one really cares about us.

 

People have responsed to you already, but if you’re laughing your ass off at people making rational arguments on why they don’t like the trade, you’re probably a homer. You’re allowed to like the trade and there are arguments that you make that are fair, but failing to see why we’re worried as if it’s completely outrageous means you’re either a homer or can’t really understand the idea of value/opportunity cost - a trade is much more complicated than just “how good is the player you’re getting.”

[DownUndaCanuck]

I am all for fixing our defence, but I think this trade just reeked of desperation. A mid round 1st and high 2nd is basically a top-10 pick and 1st in any other draft. That is a lot. Hronek is pretty proven and pretty consistent though, a good young two-way RD. Problem is that we could have drafted Strbak and Willander with those picks who may well both end up the same if not better than Hronek in a few years time. I get why Allvin did it though and it's a good sign of willingness to fix our shoddy defence, but you know it's a big price to pay, maybe even an over-payment, when Yzerman wasn't offering Hronek and PA had to make him a deal he couldn't refuse - that basically tells you we overpaid for him, otherwise Stevie Y wouldn't have even bothered.

 

We have to follow up it though. Hughes and Hronek are two pieces of a good defence. The rest on our team don't crack a playoff lineup. OEL, Myers, Bear, Burroughs - they'll log big minutes with us but I don't see any of them cracking any playoff team's roster. We'll probably be stuck with OEL and Myers but if we can get just one more top-4 defenceman we'll finally have a decent D. Lucky for us there's a bunch in free agency, I just hope Allvin doesn't sit on his hands now that he's acquired Hronek and expect him to save the day alone.

[SilentSam]

On 5/16/2023 at 9:34 AM, Odd. said:

As many of you might know, I am NOT pleased with the Hronek trade. Our team is nowhere near competitive, and looking at Hronek, he doesn’t exactly fit much of our needs on defense other than being an offensive right handed defenseman.

 

He is not particularly good in his own end, he’s a bit undersized, and is more of a PP specialist than a 5 on 5 catalyst, something I would expect from a defenseman that costed a 1st and a 2nd. Not to mention being one of the only teams out of the playoff for 7 of 8 years trading 1sts like we’re competitive.

 

The problem is, he puts up points, and is in line for a significant raise. Some comparibles are:

 

Sergachev: $8.5M x 8 (averaged 30-38 points a season before extending, career high 65 points)

Trouba: $8.0M x 8 (averages 20-30 points)

Werenski: $9.583M x 6 (averages 30-40 points)

Chabot: $8.0M x 8 (averages 30-45 points)

Morrissey $6.25M x 8 (averages 25-35 points, career high 76 points)

Provorov $6.7M x 6 (averages 25-35 points)

 

All these guys signed their extensions between 23-26. Hronek is 25, and already averages 30-40 points a season. 
 

What is stopping him from asking those types of contracts? We aren’t getting him for under $7M, especially if he puts up 35+ points.

 

In a deep draft such as this, having 2 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, and a 3rd round pick would have helped this organization immensely both depth and value. 
 

Yzerman fleeced us so hard. What an absolute disastrous trade that I don’t see paying off for us one bit. 

The trade was perfect in the sense we got rid of the underwhelming Horvat.

 

Trading the Isles 1st rnd pick (now 17th OA to the Wings) for Hroneck, while still acquiring Beauviller and Raty was a fantastic move .

Thinking that keeping the 17th pick was going to change anything on the Canucks for the next 5 years is a stretch .

 

We still have moves to make from now until Christmas.

 

 

[RU SERIOUS]

On 5/16/2023 at 9:34 AM, Odd. said:

As many of you might know, I am NOT pleased with the Hronek trade. Our team is nowhere near competitive, and looking at Hronek, he doesn’t exactly fit much of our needs on defense other than being an offensive right handed defenseman.

 

He is not particularly good in his own end, he’s a bit undersized, and is more of a PP specialist than a 5 on 5 catalyst, something I would expect from a defenseman that costed a 1st and a 2nd. Not to mention being one of the only teams out of the playoff for 7 of 8 years trading 1sts like we’re competitive.

 

In a deep draft such as this, having 2 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, and a 3rd round pick would have helped this organization immensely both depth and value. 
 

Yzerman fleeced us so hard. What an absolute disastrous trade that I don’t see paying off for us one bit. 

Agree completely.     This latest crop of Canucks team management is on the same track as the last bunch of clowns with orders from Aqua-Lini to try an ice some sort of half descent team NOW so they stop bleeding away fans and $.   This short term thinking has failed us for over a decade and will ensure continuation of our reputation of a basement/bubble team as we scratch & claw to try and squeek into one of the last wildcard spots into the playoffs.    Even JR finally broke down and had to admit early last season that this team was in dire need of "Major Surgery".  Yet he coward down to Aqua-lIni's obvious marching orders that "THERE WILL BE NO REBUILD" and now is trying the 'ol patchwork routine of putting fingers in the dike.

 

As you've likely seen in this years playoffs - as in past years - the playoffs are nowhere for small, timid, soft euro-centic Finesse players to thrive and as always will come down to the skilled teams with the size, grit and fire in their belly.  Little of which I see in any of our regular season players.   Throwing away two extremely high draft picks in a generational draft year for a damaged/unserviceable player that will ultimately change little in the teams fortunes is unwarranted now - at the least untimely.    

[Elias Pettersson]

48 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Again, do we ever get hard sources in hockey? I really don't know what your requesting here. GMs, who are the only ones that truely known whats going on almost never speak of potential trades. But when people from both sides report talks are happening, it's fair to assume talks were happening.

 

I don't think Hronek is the fix to this team. Yes, he makes the team better. But we already have Hughes, OEL, and Myers (for now) who are offensively inclined defensemen. I would much rather have traded for Marino who would actually fill a need for us on D then adding more offense. This playoff has once again showed that "defense wins championships" isn't just a saying.

 

Do you still think Smith was worth a first. I believe he progress hadn't been what was hoped and his value was closer to a 2nd. He's a player I actually did follow on and off because I liked him in his trade year.

 

Again, that's if Smith was a 1st. I think he was closer to a 2nd in value. A few picks can pick up a good player like Bjorkstand. That's why assets are worth keeping.

I actually like Marino as a player.  I'm not discounting his value at all.  He plays a shutdown role with Graves on New Jersey.  I'm sure he would have been a good partner for Hughes.

 

However, Hughes has proven he can play with anyone, so our biggest priority was adding a 2nd pairing guy who can anchor the 2nd pairing for the next decade.  Hronek can also play with Hughes if needed, run the power play, kill penalties and push 24 minutes a night.  Overall. he has more value than Marino.

 

OEL and Myers are short term solutions.  Myers will be gone soon, if not this summer then next summer for sure.  OEL is still a question mark.  Not sure if he will get back to that 40 point player.  At the very least he can play with Hronek and Hronek can be the offensive guy on that pairing.  And OEL is not guaranteed to be around past this year either.  

 

Long term I like Hughes, Hronek and Hirose as our puck movers.  The triple H team.  So we need 3 defensive Dmen to compliment them.

[Comeback_Kings]

I really think Canucks got the right player in Hronek.  

[EoH]

20 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I again need to seriously emphasize this.

 

Does Hronek NOT have to play like a full season for us to be considered a top 4 D?

 

Look at the issues with the "upper body"

 

That is all the same shoulder. Labelling him as the best RHD since Bieksa or a top 4 D because he managed to put up more than 35 points for the first time in his career is a bit insane and seriously jumping the gun.  one could just as easuly label it as Yzerman won a trade selling damaged goods.  neither is true at this stage.  Just....chill on the expectations I guess

 

I remember the Myers love when he was signed.  I remember VERY well how important it was for people to believe we had a true minute munching top 4 D.

 

How'd that work out?

 

Maybe just temper those expectations kids.

I remember when we signed those Ironman FA’s back in the days and just our luck they get injured. 
 

Let’s hope it’s the opposite this time.