Discussion 2016 NHL Entry Draft [June 24-25th || Buffalo, New York]

[theminister]

46 minutes ago, Blömqvist said:

The best proposal I've seen from someone was (sorry, I can't remember who it was)...

 

NJD: 5th overall pick and Sbisa

VAN: 11th overall pick and Severson

 

If we could grab the 4th overall from Edmonton for Tanev and a couple of other pieces then I would be all over that proposed VAN-NJD deal. We could walk away from the draft with a potential #1 centre and two potential #2/#3 defensemen by drafting one of Sergachev or Bean at 11.

It was JR and also included a 2nd coming back to us. 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, theminister said:

I says...pardon?

 

He's a sure fire rugged, two-way top 4 defence man who is only 22. 

 

He's also got letter potential. You win with players like him. 

Yep, and a 5th would be enough to acquire him and the 11th if New Jersey wanted to move up.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Yep, and a 5th would be enough to acquire him and the 11th if New Jersey wanted to move up.

Agreed.......in this draft, a top 5 pick is gold.  You have to pay for it, for sure.

[theminister]

5 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Yep, and a 5th would be enough to acquire him and the 11th if New Jersey wanted to move up.

Sorry, I might have misread what you said. He certainly had a lot of value...I'm guessing you meant not THAT much value. 

 

JR also included a high 2nd in his proposal. 

[aGENT]

35 minutes ago, theminister said:

Sorry, I might have misread what you said. He certainly had a lot of value...I'm guessing you meant not THAT much value. 

 

JR also included a high 2nd in his proposal. 

Yes he did

 

Sbisa and 5th for Severson, 11th and their early 2nd.

 

We end up with Severson, whichever of the top 3 D drop (Sergachev?) or Jost, and say Clague and Johansen. 

 

Prospect D core all of a sudden is overflowing

[J.I.A.H.N]

I keep on having to remind myself, these questions

 

#1. Are we going to rebuild by staying at the bottom for 2 or 3 years? And receive strong draft picks!

#2. Are we going to retool by drafting BPA and signing UFA's? Which moves us up the standings!

#3. Are we going to retool by trading, drafting and signing UFA's? Which moves us up the standings!

#4. Are we going to draft defensemen  and rebuild our defense? Which will keep us down?

#5. Are we going to pick BPA and hope we get good defense in the 2nd and 3rd rounds?

 

My fear is we build a great group of forwards with no high end replacements on defense, something we have always suffered from. Damned if you do damned if you don't! It takes long to develop dmen than forwards, so if we just look at forwards we could end up just like I said......a great group of forwards and no high end defensemen.

 

I am so torn with some of these trade proposals..........

 

Pick a forward and have another year with no #1 or #2 dmen developing, or trade down and miss on a first line forward..........I love it if we are right, I hate it if we are wrong!

 

My gut says pick the BPA, but then I read the NJ proposal, Severson, NJ 11 OA, and their 41 OA........I like this trade a lot, but I do not know the east very well, and wonder how good Severson is.....is he a potential #1 or #2 or #3 Dman? Because if he is more likely to be a #3, then no thank you, but if he is a #2 with the potential to be a #1, then I say go for it and fill you Defense up  in 1 year......

 

So how good is Severson?

 

 

 

 

 

[Cowichan Canuck]

I would like them to try an pry Ivan Provorov for our 5th overall.

They already have Gostisbehere (found gold), who is also an offensive left hand shot dman.

They could draft whoever is left of Dubuois/Tkachuk.

We get an offensive defensemen who is a year further in his progression and I think is projected to have a higher chance of being a first pairing dman than Chychrun/Juolevi/Segachev.

 

Provorov-Tryamkin

 

I imagine they are getting the 17th or 18th pick this year, maybe they would entertain trading that if they had the 5th also, where we could get Fabbro, Bean (doubtful) for possibly Edler if willing to move, or Hansen +

[TheHockeyNerds]

if both were in the same draft class who would you guys take? Tkachuk or Rantanen?

[Blömqvist]

2 hours ago, theminister said:

It was JR and also included a 2nd coming back to us. 

 

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Yes he did

 

Sbisa and 5th for Severson, 11th and their early 2nd.

 

We end up with Severson, whichever of the top 3 D drop (Sergachev?) or Jost, and say Clague and Johansen. 

 

Prospect D core all of a sudden is overflowing

Yes! That's who said it. I thought it was an excellent proposal!!

 

It solves the needs for both organizations. With NJ being rich in RHD and not in LHD (they have journeyman depth defenseman David Schlemko playing top-4) and especially needing offense, we could definitely be excellent trade partners if we decided to trade down. And as a plus, we get rid of Sbisa's contract so we can bring back Hammer!!

 

[FrankieCorrado]

52 minutes ago, Cowichan Canuck said:

I would like them to try an pry Ivan Provorov for our 5th overall.

They already have Gostisbehere (found gold), who is also an offensive left hand shot dman.

They could draft whoever is left of Dubuois/Tkachuk.

We get an offensive defensemen who is a year further in his progression and I think is projected to have a higher chance of being a first pairing dman than Chychrun/Juolevi/Segachev.

 

Provorov-Tryamkin

 

I imagine they are getting the 17th or 18th pick this year, maybe they would entertain trading that if they had the 5th also, where we could get Fabbro, Bean (doubtful) for possibly Edler if willing to move, or Hansen +

I would like to grab Provorov as well, but something tells me he's not for sale, he's just too darn good.

[Noseforthenet]

5 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I don't see mgmt doing anything to our current D core besides maybe looking as resigning hammher.  We don't have enough open spots to add without subtractions.  We have too many players are on the brink that we can't just give up on.  And we don't have many assets to go out and trade a for a player to be a stop gap until one of our young players can take over..

 

Were realistically looking at:

Edler Tanev

Hutton Sbisa

Tryamkin Larsen

Pedan Beiga

 

The majority of D good cores are built from within, from drafting.  Canucks need to set ourself up so we can do the same. Severson and Gudbranson are solid top 4 D options, but neither solve a need for a top pairing D to replace Edler. I would gladly go 2-3 years of D by committee so that we can construct a strong future core.

 

*Cough* Tyson Barrie in a trade involving our 5th overall. *cough*

[Warhippy]

Someone give me a break down on Dylan Sadowy if you can.  Overager yes but the break down is intriguing 

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/potential-first-round-nhl-draft-pick-no-one-talking/

[higgyfan]

13 hours ago, J.R. said:

Yes he did

 

Sbisa and 5th for Severson, 11th and their early 2nd.

 

We end up with Severson, whichever of the top 3 D drop (Sergachev?) or Jost, and say Clague and Johansen. 

 

Prospect D core all of a sudden is overflowing

This is about the only trade I've seen so far that is fair for both teams.  NJ fills a huge gap in their prospect pool with acquiring the #5 and of course, the Nucks get some decent d prospects.  I would love to see this happen!

[elvis15]

12 hours ago, Blömqvist said:

 

Yes! That's who said it. I thought it was an excellent proposal!!

 

It solves the needs for both organizations. With NJ being rich in RHD and not in LHD (they have journeyman depth defenseman David Schlemko playing top-4) and especially needing offense, we could definitely be excellent trade partners if we decided to trade down. And as a plus, we get rid of Sbisa's contract so we can bring back Hammer!!

 

Honestly if we made that move we'd still have a tough time fitting in Hamhuis without moving another D. It just shifts our overload to the right side instead of the left. Severson would be in the NHL after a 21 point season last year, so that'd have him, Tanev, Tryamkin, Larson and Biega on the right, and Edler, Hutton and Pedan on the left for a total already of 8 D. Granted, we'd have less of a need for Larson so we could move him and keep Biega around vs sending him to Utica, but there'd still be a numbers game on the back end to deal with.

 

Then again, I'm not sure the Devils would move Severson. They don't have as good a player to replace Severson on the right side, and they have Greene, Moore and Merrill on top of Schlemko on the left (all cheaper than Sbisa apart from Greene, and both Moore and Schlemko had better point production). Maybe they could upgrade on the left, but Sbisa isn't a good upgrade for a cost conscious team and not at the expense of Severson. Maybe in a couple of years they'll have guys like Santini or Scarlett (a poor man's Severson) in the lineup to compensate, but even with all their right handed prospects there are big questions if any of them will be more than a 3rd pairing depth guy.

 

I'd be very open to J.R.'s suggestion though. We'd still get a crack at one of the top 3 D in this draft potentially, and two picks at the top of the second to look at one or two more. Whatever forward we could get at 5th is enticing but not so much that I'd want them over Severson++.

[Pears]

16 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Yep, and a 5th would be enough to acquire him and the 11th if New Jersey wanted to move up.

I'd probably do that tbh. We need a guy like Severson and we can still get a pretty nice player with the 11th too. 

[aGENT]

16 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

Honestly if we made that move we'd still have a tough time fitting in Hamhuis without moving another D. It just shifts our overload to the right side instead of the left. Severson would be in the NHL after a 21 point season last year, so that'd have him, Tanev, Tryamkin, Larson and Biega on the right, and Edler, Hutton and Pedan on the left for a total already of 8 D. Granted, we'd have less of a need for Larson so we could move him and keep Biega around vs sending him to Utica, but there'd still be a numbers game on the back end to deal with.

 

Then again, I'm not sure the Devils would move Severson. They don't have as good a player to replace Severson on the right side, and they have Greene, Moore and Merrill on top of Schlemko on the left (all cheaper than Sbisa apart from Greene, and both Moore and Schlemko had better point production). Maybe they could upgrade on the left, but Sbisa isn't a good upgrade for a cost conscious team and not at the expense of Severson. Maybe in a couple of years they'll have guys like Santini or Scarlett (a poor man's Severson) in the lineup to compensate, but even with all their right handed prospects there are big questions if any of them will be more than a 3rd pairing depth guy.

 

I'd be very open to J.R.'s suggestion though. We'd still get a crack at one of the top 3 D in this draft potentially, and two picks at the top of the second to look at one or two more. Whatever forward we could get at 5th is enticing but not so much that I'd want them over Severson++.

Edler, Tanev

Hamhuis, Severson

Hutton, Tryamkin

 

Pedan, Larsen

 

Fits fine

 

Schlemko's UFA FWIW and Sbisa would allow them to percolate Santini and Jacobs longer and fill in on the left or right side (as can Merrill). A future right side of Larsson, Santini, Jacobs still looks pretty darn good. Especially with the likes of Merrill and Moore on the left.

 

5th OA gets them the a quality winger prospect they DESPERATELY need.

 

 

[elvis15]

I agree they need strong, young forwards, and if they think Severson will cost too much then maybe they do it. Sbisa can play both sides as well, that's true. It's a bit of a risk for them right now though since they came into the year worrying about their depth on the right side, but would they rather have their choice of Tkachuk/Dubois? The Oilers offering Nikitin or Fayne aren't quite Sbisa, and Sekera and Ference are opposite ends of the spectrum above and below Sbisa.

 

Eh, who knows, lots of questions on what they might do even if it's something I'd do.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Edler, Tanev

Hamhuis, Severson

Hutton, Tryamkin

 

Pedan, Larsen

 

Fits fine

 

Schlemko's UFA FWIW and Sbisa would allow them to percolate Santini and Jacobs longer and fill in on the left or right side (as can Merrill). A future right side of Larsson, Santini, Jacobs still looks pretty darn good. Especially with the likes of Merrill and Moore on the left.

 

5th OA gets them the a quality winger prospect they DESPERATELY need.

 

 

Put it this way, think of it from “your” point of view.

 

You’ve admitted, you’re not that high on Tkachuk or Dubois.  You also said you think Severson is going to be a #2 D.

 

So for the devils, is Tkachuk or Dubois going to be that much better than one of the forwards left available at the number 11 spot  (Brown, Jost, Keller), that it would make sense for the devils to add Severson (who you think is going to be a #2 D), along with their second round pick?

 

If you’re in NJ’s shoes, based on what your opinions are on the players, it wouldn’t benefit the devils at all, not in the now, or really the future considering you don’t think Tkachuk or Dubois will be first line players.  From your view point, the devils should be better off drafting (Brown, Jost, Keller), keeping their 2nd round pick, and continuing to develop Severson, to the point that his value is worth a current top line forward.  Or at the very least if santini doesn’t progress into a top 4 D, they still have Severson. 

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Put it this way, think of it from “your” point of view.

 

You’ve admitted, you’re not that high on Tkachuk or Dubois.  You also said you think Severson is going to be a #2 D.

 

So for the devils, is Tkachuk or Dubois going to be that much better than one of the forwards left available at the number 11 spot  (Brown, Jost, Keller), that it would make sense for the devils to add Severson (who you think is going to be a #2 D), along with their second round pick?

 

If you’re in NJ’s shoes, based on what your opinions are on the players, it wouldn’t benefit the devils at all, not in the now, or really the future considering you don’t think Tkachuk or Dubois will be first line players.  From your view point, the devils would be better off drafting (Brown, Jost, Keller), keeping their 2nd round pick, and continuing to develop Severson, to the point that his value is worth a current top line forward.  Or at the very least if santini doesn’t progress into a top 4 D, they still have Severson. 

 

Who said I wasn't 'high' on Tkachuck/Dubois?

 

Our prospect group needs D more than forwards. Theirs needs forwards more than D.

 

The forwards they need are ranked higher largely because they're forwards and will be gone by the time they're picking. The D we need are ranked lower largely because they're D and the fans/media in this town will crucify management if they pick one at 5/don't trade down for additional assets. Severson is as good as any of the top 3 D available and is a few years more developed. There's a fairly clear step down right around 11.

 

I never said they won't be top line forwards (where the hell did you pull that from? ).

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

10 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Who said I wasn't 'high' on Tkachuck/Dubois?

 

Our prospect group needs D more than forwards. Theirs needs forwards more than D.

 

The forwards they need are ranked higher largely because they're forwards and will be gone by the time they're picking. The D we need are ranked lower largely because they're D and the fans/media in this town will crucify management if they pick one at 5/don't trade down for additional assets. Severson is as good as any of the top 3 D available and is a few years more developed. There's a fairly clear step down right around 11.

 

I never said they won't be top line forwards (where the hell did you pull that from? ).

 

You said that

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

Tkachuck to me looks like #3-#4 forward. Borderline 1st/2nd liner. IMO that's basically on par with a #2-#3D.

The drop comes at 14-15, not 11.  Most scouts have said it's a toss up between 4-14, not 11.

 

Again using you're exact quotes

 

Is Dubois/ Tkachuk "#3-#4 forward. Borderline 1st/2nd liner"  that much better than the forward that will be still available at 11, so much more, that it's worth adding a "#2-#3D" and a second.  

 

How does that help the Devils?  Unless you think Brown, Keller and Jost will amount to nothing, it doesn't improve them.   None of the forwards are making the team next year.  In your opinion, Dubois/ Tkachuk are #3-#4 forward, while most would say Brown, Keller and Jost are 3-6 forwards it doesn't make sense to pay the price of a future #2 D man.  Especially when other two D your banking on Jacobs and Santini haven't even played a combined 15 minutes in the NHL.

 

Devils would be best serves drafting one of the 3 forwards mentioned, keeping their 2nd round pick and developing Severson, just like the jets are doing with Trouba so that when his value is high enough and they are sure they don't need him, they can move him for the exact team need they have.  A team need that's currently in the NHL.

 

The only way this deal would make sense if you your completely sold on Dubois/ Tkachuk being top line players (which your not) and if that's the case, canucks can't really afford to pass up a top line LW.