Who will stay - Virtanen or McCann? (article)

[The Bookie]

From a few days ago but I didn't see it posted anywhere, and it's an inevitable debate. I don't see them keeping both all season realistically but what do I know. Could be at the heart of the apparent disconnect between management and coaching. Hones in on some key Linden quotes.

Also worth noting - it was written before Thu.'s game vs Washington, so the count now is McCann @5, Virt @ 4. By my count, if both were to play every game going forward, JM hits 9 games on Devils Night vs Coyotes, JV the Day After the Day of the Dead vs Flyers.

Hope you’ve enjoyed having three rookies on the roster, Canucks fans, because it may not last forever.

Rules allow each CHL player to have a nine game evaluation window before Vancouver must decide if they stay or go back to their junior hockey team for the season. Jared McCann has played four games and Jake Virtanen three, so it won’t be long until that window closes.

What we know: Hutton will be staying “unless he really falls off” – according to Jim Benning last week.

What we don’t know: which of the rookie forwards – Virtanen and McCann – will stick.

At the moment, all permutations are possibilities. Technically, they could keep both, but with Chris Higgins’ imminent return from injury (he’s already skating), they’d be scratching two young forwards a night if they did.

Considering Benning had to have an hour-long conversation with Sven Baertschi’s agent the first time he scratched him, you have to think he’ll avoid doing that every few days unless he’s really lonely. Also, sitting on your hands watching others play is not the best way to develop, though you do keep your hands warm.

Baertschi could be the key to the whole equation. If the Canucks believe he’s the weakest of the three young forwards, they could conceivably send him to Utica. It’s a risky move, considering they’d have to send him through waivers, as they tried and failed to do with Frankie Corrado earlier this month.

With the buzz and excitement the rookies have created in this market so far, you have to think they’ll keep at least one.

So who’s played better so far? Trevor Linden spoke on TSN 1040 radio last night, and it’s clear which way he’s leaning.

“Jared’s shown me he’s got some maturity in his game, no question,” said Linden. “He understands play away from the puck. He understands play down low. His body position, his stick position is excellent. He gets it.”

Coming from the team’s President, the “he gets it” is telling. Linden continued, “I said to Jim (Benning) we talked about Jake all summer, but Jared might be the guy that raises the most eyebrows and it’s turned out to be true.”

Fans watching at home may have raised their own eyebrows when Virtanen body-checked two Oilers at once Sunday to send Baertschi in on a breakaway.

Linden commented on Virtanen too: “Jake comes at it from a more physical standpoint. His size and strength is evident.”

Good stuff, but here’s the important part: “You know, it’s a big step – you go from junior to this level, and it’s a big step from preseason to regular season as well. He’s been good.”

Linden said “he’s been good” the way guys say “she’s cute” when asked if he’d be into a girl he doesn’t find attractive.

Back to those eyebrows – Linden’s are the ones that help make decisions and we know which way they’re raising. Of course, the rest of the management group in Vancouver will have a say as well. Whoever stays, fans might want to temper expectations on how much he’ll play.

“We’ve had players here in the past and fans have said, ‘Play him on the first line, play him on the first power play,'” said Linden. No question who he’s talking about – hint: his name rhymes with the way white people pronounce pho.

Linden continued: “It’s one of those things where young players need to earn that right. They need to earn that opportunity, and day-in day-out, practice-in practice-out, they need to earn that trust. That’s a process. It doesn’t happen overnight, and I think Willie’s done an excellent job last year with Bo.”

So don’t expect McCann or Virtanen to play important third-period or power play minutes any quicker than Horvat did.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/10/who-will-stay-virtanen-or-mccann-see-which-way-lindens-leaning/

[Toews]

Rules allow each CHL player to have a nine game evaluation window before Vancouver must decide if they stay or go back to their junior hockey team for the season.

There is no such rule that says a team has a 9 game evaluation window. All it allows you to do is preserve a player's ELC. By far the more important mark is the games played for burning a year of RFA eligibility. I know I am nitpicking but I would expect the author of the article to clarify this in order to not confuse readers.

[LaBamba]

I see our window reopening 2-3 years from now. We won't win the Stanley Cup this year, so why not preserve the ELC's.

2-3 years from now we will have a bigger/ badder McCann, Virtanen, Shink, Gaunce, Boeser, and who ever else we draft along the way. We need to look beyond this year and set ourselves up for the best position cap wise 2-3 years from now. 

[homersexual]

Unless you are the Oilers, then you play both Virtanen and McCann for 30+ games then send them back to jr, like they did with Leon Draisaitl.

[Nuxfanabroad]

I see our window reopening 2-3 years from now. We won't win the Stanley Cup this year, so why not preserve the ELC's.

2-3 years from now we will have a bigger/ badder McCann, Virtanen, Shink, Gaunce, Boeser, and who ever else we draft along the way. We need to look beyond this year and set ourselves up for the best position cap wise 2-3 years from now. 

Ahh sad reality..Ol' Russian proverb states that it's better to be smacked with the truth, rather than kissed with a lie.

[DeltaSwede]

I think if they are to keep any of the two it would fall on McCann. He might have been picked after Jake but he's looking more ready to take the step this year. "Power forwards" just like defensmen take longer to develop and I think Jake needs another year.

[Knucklehd]

So hard to say, wouldn't be surprised if they both stay.  I think they will only keep 1, and I feel.it comes down to where they think Sutter is best for the team...at 2/3 line Centre or on sedins wing.  If they like him on the wing, Jared stays.  If they prefer him at Centre, Jake stays.  That said I do feel Jared has played a better first few games than Jake, things can change quickly in the next 4-5 games though.

[ice orca]

It's pretty hard from a fan's point of view seeing them in limited minutes. The coaches and management probably see a lot more in practice, work ethic, who can play better with different line mates. Depends what the Canucks want over the long season when injuries set in a center or a winger. Virtanen has the physical edge on McCann but McCann's goal scoring and 200ft game is a bit better than Virt right now.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

As good as McCann has looked in the offensive zone (when he's not getting knocked around), there's no denying he's had troubles defensively. He's gonna be an absolutely great player, no doubts in my mind, but he's not ready for a NHL season. 1st line minutes in the CHL, WJC appearance and a Utica playoffs under Green if SSM doesn't go all the way with him would be lots of hockey and good for his development. Next off-season he could put on 10 pounds and make the team out of camp again and permanently. 

[Spoosh]

I'm still leaning towards saying they will keep both players for the rest of the season. Both of them are quite close and juniors again is pretty big step backwards. Neither of them look like playing with the big club has hurt their development. On the contrary - both Jake and Jared seem to be more comfortable and improved every game.

[hatedkid666]

I say send them both back, consider they arent playing much. Then they will come back next year to play full time and will have a little experience to make the transition smoother

[Drakrami]

Virtanen is too raw. He has a lot of areas he needs to work on. I think he needs to go down simply because of the ELC and lack of roster spots. 

Mccann on the other hand, i support for staying. Hes got some offensive touch and we badly need to inject more youth. Our team is too old, slow and stale. Fast tracking Mccann's development will only help us 2 years later when Sedins finally can't play first line anymore. 

[oldnews]

Not sure who wrote that - not going to click their link - but they try too hard imo.

If Baertschi were waiver ineligible I think he'd be on his way to Utica with them both staying, but who knows.

 

[NHTyrany]

A question for you experienced people. If a guy is sent back to Junior, can he be recalled later in the year? 

 

One idea is to send at least one down and bring them back after a trade for picks or a top D (unlikely). I don't want Nucks to look too desperate for a trade.  

[Ghostsof1915]

A question for you experienced people. If a guy is sent back to Junior, can he be recalled later in the year? 

 

One idea is to send at least one down and bring them back after a trade for picks or a top D (unlikely). I don't want Nucks to look too desperate for a trade.  

My understanding is once they are sent down. They stay until the junior team is out of the playoffs, or doesn't make the playoffs. 

So they would be unavailable until that time. So if either or both are sent down, I doubt we'll see them unless Utica has a long playoff run.

[bassetgreg]

Send them both back to junior and give Jenson or Gaunce a chance. 

[Shift-4]

In the prediction thread I said Virtanen would stay and McCann would be sent back.  I am saying that because of physical stature. 

I am sticking to that prediction.

[HK Phooey]

My only concern for McCann being kept in the NHL right now is that he may not be physically ready to play 8 to 12 minutes on a regular/semi-regular basis.  I have a bad feeling (and it's only a feeling, and not backed up with any facts) that McCann, even though he "gets it" as Linden says, would be susceptible to injuries at the NHL level and would lose valuable development time because of it (and yes, I know, he may be just as susceptible to injuries playing in the OHL).

Virtanen, on the other hand, even though he's had a slower start to his NHL debut than McCann, has all the physical attributes to compete in the NHL.  He may be lacking the "get it" factor that Linden speaks about or has less of it than McCann, but IMO, physical maturity at 19 years of age trumps hockey IQ at 19 years of age.  I have a feeling (again, nothing to back this up with any facts) that Virtanen's game will trend northward, so I think he will get better as the season goes on (whereas I think the McCann that we see now is the McCann we'll get for the rest of the season -- which is not a bad thing as it relates to McCann).

So, if it were up to me (and thank goodness these decisions are made by someone else), even though McCann is ahead of Virtanen RIGHT NOW, I would keep Jake and send Jared down.  IMO, the Jared McCann that the Canucks get next fall and going into 2016-2017 will be a star in the making because he will have the right combination of physical maturity and hockey IQ.  Keeping him now will be like throwing the smartest kid in school into the playground with a bunch of knuckle-draggers (and this is not to say that McCann is soft, because he isn't).

I hope my rationale makes sense to others than just to me.

[stawns]

From a few days ago but I didn't see it posted anywhere, and it's an inevitable debate. I don't see them keeping both all season realistically but what do I know. Could be at the heart of the apparent disconnect between management and coaching. Hones in on some key Linden quotes.

Also worth noting - it was written before Thu.'s game vs Washington, so the count now is McCann @5, Virt @ 4. By my count, if both were to play every game going forward, JM hits 9 games on Devils Night vs Coyotes, JV the Day After the Day of the Dead vs Flyers.

I think it's very possible that both stay, and a vet is moved.  Also, too much was made out of the meeting between JB and baers agent.  He was already in town, from Europe, so it was likely scheduled earlier.

[Canucklehead73]

They will both go down. Slight chance Virt stays since he can play a bottom six role and be effective. They can call up Vey and or Kennins without losing out on our prospects ELC.