Elias Pettersson | #40 | C

[messier's_elbow]

6 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Yes!

 

If you dig back far enough, I have a similar rant extolling drafting Nylander when that debate came up pre draft as well.

I guess I deserved that -30 I got on the first page. I owe Benning an apology. I quickly changed my mind about Petterson the same day...

 

after some deep thinking, but I now trust JB fully. He's looking good with our prospect pool now. Especially since we lost 2 lotteries. And double Especially if Jake keeps improving, and makes the province look like a bunch of D&@k heads. Well....even more then they already do. 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

21 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

I guess I deserved that -30 I got on the first page. I owe Benning an apology. I quickly changed my mind about Petterson the same day...

 

after some deep thinking, but I now trust JB fully. He's looking good with our prospect pool now. Especially since we lost 2 lotteries. And double Especially if Jake keeps improving, and makes the province look like a bunch of D&@k heads. Well....even more then they already do. 

 

 

 

I would not fuss.

 

Fans have a right to an opinion.  As long as not too negative an opinion is just that. And ultimately I appreciate those who support their team through thick and thin.

[Where'd Luongo?]

On 9/23/2017 at 0:39 PM, Stanky Legs said:

He needs to gain 50 lbs before even considering the NHL.

[Dixon Ward]

It will be very interesting to see if Elias can ramp up his ppg as the season goes on.  As his coach and teammates get used to how to use his "particular set of skills".  His confidence and comfort will also grow.  I predict he will finish above 1 ppg. 

[Diamonds]

7 hours ago, Dixon Ward said:

It will be very interesting to see if Elias can ramp up his ppg as the season goes on.  As his coach and teammates get used to how to use his "particular set of skills".  His confidence and comfort will also grow.  I predict he will finish above 1 ppg. 

That would be awesome, but I'm not so sure he will. If Pettersson finishes above 1 ppg he will be in the running for SHL MVP. There were only 2 players last year who finished above 1 ppg. I expect he will have a few dry spells as his youth shows in inconsistency from time to time. My prediction is he will fall somewhere between .75 ppg and 1 ppg which I would still be ecstatic about and consider a huge success.

[Alexandre]

16 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I personally believe in the whole ''tryout'' concept with sports teams.  A guy can earn a spot, and still be sent down to the AHL if its not going well.

 

Its up to the player! 

 

There is a lot of myth in there James.  

 

And lets be a little honest? Jake did not bulk up. He got fat? Took a bit for granted which worked against him. Maybe it was muscle, but it was the wrong kind of muscle.  

 

It is also not like your incorrect either?  

 

Here is what I do know;

 

Weight for weights sake is not necessarily good.  Take David Booth who used to bulk up for three weeks, it seemed, every year before training camp. He would be over massed, and his muscles still in recovery from heavy sessions in the weight room. And he would pull abdominal and groin muscles. Pure bulk from heavy isolation exercises to particular muscles does not mean you have the strength and flexibility, or endurance you need for hockey muscles.  The first rule of thumb is your training can, should and must be very targeted to the sport you are in.       (another mistake of Jake.)

 

However a stronger upper body, if its lean muscle mass, is highly unlikely corrupt your center of gravity. Elias will need ''some meat on his bones.!'' Muscles absorb better than bone, and muscle bruises heal faster than bone bruises. Target training. And balanced training, is much more commonly advocated these days. With exertion and energy levels routinely designed to simulate the exertion of your sport and its intensity. Where as grunting out 3 reps on the squat wrack or bench press wont. Boxing and martial arts training, skip rope, heavy rope, medicine ball, the Grouse Grind with hand weights, cycling, swimming and hell, skating, taking shots while under aerobic duress, etc., can all be designed to rip your upper body without distorting anything. The general rule is add as much range of motion and aerobic capacity as you can while working out. Add explosive movements (speed bag, the rope, punching drills) not just controlled movements. And you will be much more closely resembling your sports activities than simple lug head weight lifting.

 

  Okay a picture I tried to insert of a guy doing a rope burn exercise keeps disappearing.

 

We should not assume because a guy puts on weight that its bad either.  Look at this guy above? What, again, is important is to consider is putting in the cardio, core and leg training the ice hockey player needs.  Petterson is an ectomorph. Like Wayne Simmonds. And Danny & Hank.  They naturally have longer limbs, higher levels of energy, but also sinewy muscles with very high levels of strength & flexibility in comparison to body mass. And core muscle from the right workouts. That's why The Twins can hold onto the puck with big bastard D men leaning on them in the cycle game. Putting on, or not putting on weight, will be more be reflection of diet, and whether you overtrain. When I ran marathons I got down to 158 lbs one year. But could still bench 285 lbs. My weight went down because I burned more calories. But my diet was not great either. And I went at it 7 days a week, not 3 or 4 with rest. The right balance and you can put on good weight.

 

If you do play with a higher body weight?  Fuel and rest become even more critical. Muscles will not stop you from being dextrous, explosive, controlled in your movement. The opposite actually. But also requires more energy. Simple physics. Energy expelled is equal to mass x acceleration. But you might run out of puff unless you are fuelled, and your body practiced & ready to do the 30, 40, 50 second shifts at the explosive intensity level required. Training must simulate beng able to stop, power full blast, exert puck control, hold off Dustin Byfuglien leaning on you? And with higher weight you have to make sure you burn off excess energy after every game, every muscle work out. Ride the bike or run after training. But then eat and have a rest the next day.

 

Guys like Kassian, Jake last year, were not trained well enough & diet savy to last full shifts. Until they figured out how to do it? 

 

Petterson came in second and 7th in the Windgate 30 second and 7 second peak power drills among the 107 odd guys tested at the combines. He's actually a way better, stronger and more explosive athlete than most know. Its what gives him the agility, and control he has at speed. It will also mean, he can put on weight if he has the right diet and training.  

 

Too much fuss over this topic!

 Thanks for all the explanation and your conclusion. I think you are right. This was my only concern with Pettersson and you put that fear of mine to rest.

[Attila Umbrus]

19 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I personally believe in the whole ''tryout'' concept with sports teams.  A guy can earn a spot, and still be sent down to the AHL if its not going well.

 

Its up to the player! 

 

There is a lot of myth in there James.  

 

And lets be a little honest? Jake did not bulk up. He got fat? Took a bit for granted which worked against him. Maybe it was muscle, but it was the wrong kind of muscle.  

 

It is also not like your incorrect either?  

 

Here is what I do know;

 

Weight for weights sake is not necessarily good.  Take David Booth who used to bulk up for three weeks, it seemed, every year before training camp. He would be over massed, and his muscles still in recovery from heavy sessions in the weight room. And he would pull abdominal and groin muscles. Pure bulk from heavy isolation exercises to particular muscles does not mean you have the strength and flexibility, or endurance you need for hockey muscles.  The first rule of thumb is your training can, should and must be very targeted to the sport you are in.       (another mistake of Jake.)

 

However a stronger upper body, if its lean muscle mass, is highly unlikely corrupt your center of gravity. Elias will need ''some meat on his bones.!'' Muscles absorb better than bone, and muscle bruises heal faster than bone bruises. Target training. And balanced training, is much more commonly advocated these days. With exertion and energy levels routinely designed to simulate the exertion of your sport and its intensity. Where as grunting out 3 reps on the squat wrack or bench press wont. Boxing and martial arts training, skip rope, heavy rope, medicine ball, the Grouse Grind with hand weights, cycling, swimming and hell, skating, taking shots while under aerobic duress, etc., can all be designed to rip your upper body without distorting anything. The general rule is add as much range of motion and aerobic capacity as you can while working out. Add explosive movements (speed bag, the rope, punching drills) not just controlled movements. And you will be much more closely resembling your sports activities than simple lug head weight lifting.

 

  Okay a picture I tried to insert of a guy doing a rope burn exercise keeps disappearing.

 

We should not assume because a guy puts on weight that its bad either.  Look at this guy above? What, again, is important is to consider is putting in the cardio, core and leg training the ice hockey player needs.  Petterson is an ectomorph. Like Wayne Simmonds. And Danny & Hank.  They naturally have longer limbs, higher levels of energy, but also sinewy muscles with very high levels of strength & flexibility in comparison to body mass. And core muscle from the right workouts. That's why The Twins can hold onto the puck with big bastard D men leaning on them in the cycle game. Putting on, or not putting on weight, will be more be reflection of diet, and whether you overtrain. When I ran marathons I got down to 158 lbs one year. But could still bench 285 lbs. My weight went down because I burned more calories. But my diet was not great either. And I went at it 7 days a week, not 3 or 4 with rest. The right balance and you can put on good weight.

 

If you do play with a higher body weight?  Fuel and rest become even more critical. Muscles will not stop you from being dextrous, explosive, controlled in your movement. The opposite actually. But also requires more energy. Simple physics. Energy expelled is equal to mass x acceleration. But you might run out of puff unless you are fuelled, and your body practiced & ready to do the 30, 40, 50 second shifts at the explosive intensity level required. Training must simulate beng able to stop, power full blast, exert puck control, hold off Dustin Byfuglien leaning on you? And with higher weight you have to make sure you burn off excess energy after every game, every muscle work out. Ride the bike or run after training. But then eat and have a rest the next day.

 

Guys like Kassian, Jake last year, were not trained well enough & diet savy to last full shifts. Until they figured out how to do it? 

 

Petterson came in second and 7th in the Windgate 30 second and 7 second peak power drills among the 107 odd guys tested at the combines. He's actually a way better, stronger and more explosive athlete than most know. Its what gives him the agility, and control he has at speed. It will also mean, he can put on weight if he has the right diet and training.  

 

Too much fuss over this topic!

Aaaannnddd...BOOM...mike drop!  Great read, learned a lot. Thanks!

[Canuck Surfer]

Check out this video.  Illustrates the class of workouts I'm talking about.  The expertise is at Petterson's disposal.

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/video/we-are-all-canucks/t-277437438/c-52927303 

[messier's_elbow]

I love this prospect more by the day. If he's not rushed and brought in at the right time he looks like a potential 1st liver for sure.

[numb3r 16]

On 2017-09-24 at 9:48 PM, messier's_elbow said:

I guess I deserved that -30 I got on the first page. I owe Benning an apology. I quickly changed my mind about Petterson the same day...

 

after some deep thinking, but I now trust JB fully. He's looking good with our prospect pool now. Especially since we lost 2 lotteries. And double Especially if Jake keeps improving, and makes the province look like a bunch of D&@k heads. Well....even more then they already do. 

 

 

 

You also had 19 pluses on that post which is quite interesting haha

[J-23]

On 9/24/2017 at 9:48 PM, messier's_elbow said:

I guess I deserved that -30 I got on the first page. I owe Benning an apology. I quickly changed my mind about Petterson the same day...

 

after some deep thinking, but I now trust JB fully. He's looking good with our prospect pool now. Especially since we lost 2 lotteries. And double Especially if Jake keeps improving, and makes the province look like a bunch of D&@k heads. Well....even more then they already do. 

 

 

 

Yeah man, I think a lot of us have done the same. I was choked we didn't draft Hague in the second, instead we drafted Lind. As time went on, watching some highlights, young Stars and just learning about the prospect, Lind has easily become one of my favourite prospects. 

 

A lot of people on the forums,(I'm not naming anyone) don't like hearing an honest opinion or negativity, if it's not positive then you're considered a "troll" from how I've seen it lately.

 

 

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, J-23 said:

A lot of people on the forums,(I'm not naming anyone) don't like hearing an honest opinion or negativity, if it's not positive then you're considered a "troll" from how I've seen it lately.

 

 

Not naming anyone but... Opinions, 'honest' or otherwise aren't worth much when they're panicky, reactionary, ill informed and lacking context. When any of those things happen, one shouldn't be surprised when called out on them. 

[J-23]

3 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Not naming anyone but... Opinions, 'honest' or otherwise aren't worth much when they're panicky, reactionary, ill informed and lacking context. When any of those things happen, one shouldn't be surprised when called out on them. 

I am just talking generally from what I've seen around here lately, but I see where you're coming from.

Edited September 27, 2017 by J-23

[kloubek]

I cant say I knew much about him when drafted.  I was surprised to say the least but I believed right away that Benning must have seen greatness that others missed - despite him being skinny. I figured that maybe some GMs passed and scouts downgraded him largely because they were more focused on 1-2 year entry players as opposed to 2-3 years players.  No doubt hes the latter.

 

He has the height and there is no reason he couldn't bulk up.  Heck... I was 160 when 18 and 205 when 22 - all natural muscle from good diet and simply keeping in shape.

 

Then I thought about the way the NHL is heading and if a truly tiny guy like Gaudreau can make it then he would be fine. 

 

So I watched highlights and saw elite skill there right away, and changed my tune.  One never knows for sure how a guy will develop but I rather like the pick now.  I truly think he is first line material and we are going to be stoked as we watch him progress.

Edited September 27, 2017 by kloubek

[messier's_elbow]

3 hours ago, numb3r 16 said:

You also had 19 pluses on that post which is quite interesting haha

Yeah well Glass is looking good and he and Vilardi are who I wanted. Haven't heard much about Vilardi lately though. Petterson just scared me cause he's so thin but I won't get into that, there's already 20 pages just on his weight issue. 

[cripplereh]

well benning has picked some I shook my head at but they look good

 

in a year or two we better be seeing some return on ice as an NHL play  3 or 4 players better be playing and not talking about the ones he has traded for

[numb3r 16]

1 hour ago, messier's_elbow said:

Yeah well Glass is looking good and he and Vilardi are who I wanted. Haven't heard much about Vilardi lately though. Petterson just scared me cause he's so thin but I won't get into that, there's already 20 pages just on his weight issue. 

Yep but it's still way too early tell, who knows if vilardi breaks out and scores 90 points in his 4th year. 

 

Guesswell just have to wait and see

[Team Bagues]

1 hour ago, messier's_elbow said:

Yeah well Glass is looking good and he and Vilardi are who I wanted. Haven't heard much about Vilardi lately though. Petterson just scared me cause he's so thin but I won't get into that, there's already 20 pages just on his weight issue. 

From what I've seen the best hockey players have 'weight' in the lower half.

I remember twenty years ago seeing Bure and Mogilny around UBC, and their glutes and quads were massive.

Elias will start to get 'old man' upper body strength - and I have no doubt that he keep training the muscles that actually matter when skating and fending off defenders.

It's all in the legs and buttocks. - see Crosby for a great modern day example.

[DrJockitch]

This page has taken an odd turn.  New scouting technique.  Bagues can inspect their buttocks and Sutter can check out their balls.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

8 hours ago, messier's_elbow said:

Yeah well Glass is looking good and he and Vilardi are who I wanted. Haven't heard much about Vilardi lately though. Petterson just scared me cause he's so thin but I won't get into that, there's already 20 pages just on his weight issue. 

Vilardi is injured and had to miss camp this year.

 

https://www.nhl.com/kings/news/first-round-pick-gabriel-vilardi-to-miss-rookie-camp-and-training-camp/c-290895206