captaincowbasher Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 hours ago, 10pavelbure96 said: This is hugely opinion based and not fact. Their contract is up this year, did you not expect them to play out their contract? Even though you're in a rebuild you still need to try to ice a competitive team. Management and the Sedins both know their time is up. Well the Sedins don't help the team be competitive- just look at the teams record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincowbasher Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 hours ago, coastal.view said: why so emotive and if the sedins are not here who will take their roster spots you want to see more of gagner or his ilk or would you rather clog the roster with better players who will then block our upcoming youth the sedins are fine place holders they are talented but declining players they are emotionally connected to the fan base are really decent individuals and seem content to operate on 1 year contracts moving forward seems like a pretty good arrangement for all concerned nope bad idea, we need to turn the page. They don't play on the defensive side of the puck, how is that leading by example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincowbasher Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Alflives said: I agree with @coastal.view on the Twins. Sign them to a one year deal for (likely) 5 million each. They are good placeholders for the prospects. terrible idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Alflives said: I agree with @coastal.view on the Twins. Sign them to a one year deal for (likely) 5 million each. They are good placeholders for the prospects. honestly thats too much. I think there can be a middle grounder here where we respect what they've done but recognize that not brining them back can be positive too. Is Daniel providing more leadership to Brock than Vanek? I dunno, seems like Vanek and Brock have a nice thing going there and Brocks 5 on 5 time with the twins has been underwhelming. I'd feel a lot better about them coming back if they would allow themselves to be rented out this season for some picks/prospects, thats equally as important to their presence in the room imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 40 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: honestly thats too much. I think there can be a middle grounder here where we respect what they've done but recognize that not brining them back can be positive too. Is Daniel providing more leadership to Brock than Vanek? I dunno, seems like Vanek and Brock have a nice thing going there and Brocks 5 on 5 time with the twins has been underwhelming. I'd feel a lot better about them coming back if they would allow themselves to be rented out this season for some picks/prospects, thats equally as important to their presence in the room imo. I don’t see any team wanting them, even as rentals. It’s likely one more season, and I see 5 million each. I think they do provide more leadership than Vanek. Boeser is a great player, but he’s still learning. Let’s let him mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 hours ago, dougieL said: Is there actual evidence that they will be a good influence on the young players? They may have been a good influence on Horvat, but that is now in the past. Can they provide things that Horvat and Sutter cannot? I cannot comment on off-the-ice issues, but their play on the ice is indifferent, and at times, horrendous. There is nothing they do on the ice, whether it be displaying guts, sticking up for their teammates, or working hard on defense, that young players can learn from. On the ice, I think they are a detriment to the team in many regards. Is there evidence they won't be? I'd think the comments from pretty much everyone they've ever played with on their character is enough for me. Oh, you want to debate on ice? Come back to me when they aren't our 3rd and 4th leading scorers. I love when people want to push them out. At least we have two young players ready to take over for them finally, but not anyone else so why rush? And at least Vanek has been sharp and very helpful, but I know you're lumping him in with part of the problem and this deference. But here's a reality check, the premise would be the same without the Sedins. Benning and Co would have signed vets to replace the outgoing ones regardless. This was never going to be a tear down rebuild where we iced a crappy team and did nothing but pick in the top 3 for a few years. It was always going to be finding a supporting cast so that young players like Horvat and Boeser (and then Pettersson and the rest) could come in and not be shelled every night. But go ahead and pretend you know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyezone Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I still like to watch the twins play hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Alflives said: I agree with @coastal.view on the Twins. Sign them to a one year deal for (likely) 5 million each. They are good placeholders for the prospects. Not attacking you Alf but there's no way "placeholders" should be paid 5 million dollars, nevermind two of them. If the Sedins want to keep playing they should accept whatever (hopefully) lowball offer Jim presents them with. The Sedins dont have a lot of choice in the matter the way I see it. They want to play here? Take whatever you're offered. Dont like it? Then try to get paid elsewhere or good luck in retirement. No other team is going to commit 10 million dollars to these guys so why should the Canucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Riviera82 said: Not attacking you Alf but there's no way "placeholders" should be paid 5 million dollars, nevermind two of them. If the Sedins want to keep playing they should accept whatever (hopefully) lowball offer Jim presents them with. The Sedins dont have a lot of choice in the matter the way I see it. They want to play here? Take whatever you're offered. Dont like it? Then try to get paid elsewhere or good luck in retirement. No other team is going to commit 10 million dollars to these guys so why should the Canucks? I’m okay whether they stay or go. I just would like to see Pettersson and Dhalen prove they are ready before giving up on the Twins. Would 2 mil each be enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: I’m okay whether they stay or go. I just would like to see Pettersson and Dhalen prove they are ready before giving up on the Twins. Would 2 mil each be enough? I'd say it's time to take off the training wheels. Let's see if the Canucks can ride without them. If not they dont have too far to fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 5 hours ago, dougieL said: Plain and simple - the Sedins are holding this team back both on the ice and off the ice. No doubt their production has declined - tell me one player in the history of the league whose game didn't decline at the end of their career? But to say their holding back the team on and off the ice is such an incredibly ignorant comment it almost bears no reply...I said almost - to a man (or human if you want to be PC), every single person in the franchise says these guys are leaders and role models on the ice, in the gym, in the community, and around the team in any other capacity you want to mention. How often this season or last have we heard both BoHo and Boeser say in interviews how amazing the the twins are on and off the ice? These two kids are the future of this franchise and they are being shown the ropes so to speak around this league by two of the best ever - care to put a price tag on the future of this franchise being groomed the right way so they're set up for the rest of their careers? I for one don't want the future of the team being mentored by some 'highest bidder gun for hire UFA specialist' with no roots or interest in this community other than it's where he receives his paycheck I'm going on record hoping they're here for another year when both EP and OJ are here so they too can benefit from their mentorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, Fanuck said: No doubt their production has declined - tell me one player in the history of the league whose game didn't decline at the end of their career? But to say their holding back the team on and off the ice is such an incredibly ignorant comment it almost bears no reply...I said almost - to a man (or human if you want to be PC), every single person in the franchise says these guys are leaders and role models on the ice, in the gym, in the community, and around the team in any other capacity you want to mention. How often this season or last have we heard both BoHo and Boeser say in interviews how amazing the the twins are on and off the ice? These two kids are the future of this franchise and they are being shown the ropes so to speak around this league by two of the best ever - care to put a price tag on the future of this franchise being groomed the right way so they're set up for the rest of their careers? I for one don't want the future of the team being mentored by some 'highest bidder gun for hire UFA specialist' with no roots or interest in this community other than it's where he receives his paycheck I'm going on record hoping they're here for another year when both EP and OJ are here so they too can benefit from their mentorship. It's such wishful thinking that getting rid of the Sedins will somehow HELP the team. Completely ridiculous. The team will be better when the twins are gone because we'll have players capable of out-playing them. Thankfully, that's always been JB and TL's plan. Pretty sure they're back for one more and I'm perfectly fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Alflives said: I don’t see any team wanting them, even as rentals. It’s likely one more season, and I see 5 million each. I think they do provide more leadership than Vanek. Boeser is a great player, but he’s still learning. Let’s let him mature. oldnews had a good suggestion with a fit in ANA... but yah its not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 11 hours ago, dougieL said: This is my first post, but I've been watching the Canucks for longer than I care to say. I remember how excited I was about the twins when they were rookies. Amazingly, they exceeded *all* of my expectations for them. I don't need to tell anyone here what an incredible joy it was to watch them night in night out in their prime. They were truly unique players the likes of which I doubt the league will ever see again. While it is hard to believe, they might have been better off the ice in the community. But...and there had to be a but in here somewhere. The Canucks as an organization owe the Sedins *nothing*. They have been paid handsomely for their services. They, their kids, and their kids' kids won't have to ever worry about finances. You could argue they were a little underpaid during the 30.5 million 5 year contract, but that is being made up for in spades right now, as they are nowhere close to being worth 7 million. In their prime years, they were surrounded with the right players to have a shot at the Cup. They were one game away from winning it. They had their chance. They didn't capitalize. That is unfortunate for them, and for all of us. So I don't get this narrative that we owe it to them to keep this team competitive, or that it wouldn't be fair to them to go through a rebuild. Look at who the team has recruited for the specific purpose of playing with the Sedin's - Vrbata, Eriksson, Vanek. I'm not saying all these players were bad signings, or that they all took roster spots and playing time away from developing players (though I would argue that's what Eriksson and Vanek are doing), but these signings demonstrate the deference of the team to the Sedins. This deference has cost us years of a rebuild. Bes no doubt in my mind that he knows how a rebuild should be done. Loyalty to the Sedins has prevented him from fully executing his vision. This absolutnning is no idiot. There iely unacceptable. Let me repeat - the team owes the Sedins exactly nothing. It owes it to its *fans* to execute the rebuild the right way; fans that have stayed loyal to this team through the periods of misery and perpetual mediocrity; fans who make fractions of what the Sedins make but pay significant amounts of money from those comparatively measly paychecks to support the team so that the team can pay its players staggering amounts of money (no complaints here - the players are paid exactly what they're worth). This deference to the Sedins has gone too far. It has hurt the team too much. It has to stop. But it won't stop. They had one good game versus the Sharks, and now some are saying that they still have it and should come back for one more year (have you forgotten the lazy line changes, fly by's, back checks, and overall indifferent play the last three or so years??). Their linemate was Vanek. Who here thinks the team will let him go now that it appears he clicks with the Sedins? Don't raise the example of Burrows - we all know that by the time he was traded, he was no longer a viable linemate for the Sedins. Vanek has value. Whether it be a second round pick or a fourth round pick. We need these picks. Gaudette was a fifth round pick. Any chance we have to improve the future of this team, we need to take it. But I'm betting it won't happen. And it's sad that our fan base has to suffer just because some in the organization feel the Sedins are somehow owed something they are not. 6 6 I completely disagree. What are you saying about your organization if you aren't willing to show respect to the best players in your franchise's history. What kind of message does that send to players about coming to play here? Our history is bad enough as it is. I don't agree that we have kept the team competitive for them. You can't blame managements (at times) terrible decision making on them or any player. Eriksson was a terrible signing from the start. Vanek & Vrbata have been good. Vanek hasn't significantly improved the team but it makes it a bit more watchable. I agree they need to move him at the deadline. I don't agree that Vanek & the Sedins are standing in the way of anyone? Without them Sam Gagner would be a 1st powerplay - top 6 forward for this team. Who is ready to take the next step that hasn't already? The team isn't looking to keep the team competitive around the Sedins, they realize the Sedin's aren't the guys anymore & they are desperately searching for players able to carry the team. The Sedins & Vanek haven't stood in the way of Horvat/Boeser/Baertschi. They also bring veteran leadership & an example of what it will take for younger players to consistently be successful players in the league. This team would currently be no better off without the Sedins. Even Vanek. This team statistically has been the worst of 3 straight bottom 5 finishes. You have no one currently able of replacing them & doing a better job. As you said Benning isn't an idiot (even though at times I have wondered) and he sees the value they still currently have to the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 13 hours ago, coastal.view said: why so emotive and if the sedins are not here who will take their roster spots you want to see more of gagner or his ilk or would you rather clog the roster with better players who will then block our upcoming youth the sedins are fine place holders they are talented but declining players they are emotionally connected to the fan base are really decent individuals and seem content to operate on 1 year contracts moving forward seems like a pretty good arrangement for all concerned Spoken like a loser with neither ambition nor vision. Who says we even need placeholders? The team needs grit, speed and skill. This Club needs to move on, of course they are taking up roster spots - what an idiotic thing to say. Just because you mention Gagner, who by the way is just in his first season here and deserves some patience does not mean the only alternative is 2 x 38 year old players who are nothing like the players they were. All their downsides are x2 now but people like you don't seem to get that. We could have 3 even 4 players who are ready to break into the team, not to mention what we might pick up from undrafted USA players or from UFA deals. Your short sighted "country club" approach is the last thing this Club needs right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrago Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I personally believe that the Sedin's are stalling progress, but if they do Re-sign which I believe they will. It better be for Vanek money. I doubt they get it but they are ruining there Legacy the longer they play, no good can come from it. They are already 1 year too late on there retirement IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taskicon Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 About the only thing I agree with the op is that the Sedins should retire after this year. Too many people undervalue the mental fortitude it takes to be great at something. If Bo and Boeser lead this team to a cup in 3 to 4 years it is because of this year. It will be because they learned how to be great physically but also mentally from two of the greatest and most consistent hockey players of all time. It is all to easy to get into a losing vortex which slowly sucks all players into it like in Edmonton. Once you start losing, your confidence lowers, your shoulders slouch, your brain chemistry makes you more depressed and more sluggish. You feel discouraged and you stop working on the little parts of your game. Yes the Canucks are losing a lot of games but they aren’t losers. The Sedins have a strong mental fortitude. They win. They are in the gym. They lose. They are in the gym. Head held high. Being positive and trying to improve their game constantly. You grow and learn way faster when you are feeling confident and the game can just be fun. That is what they are teaching the young players. You should work your hardest to be your best but also realize there is more to life than hockey. If you have never tried to anything really challenging to both your mental and physical self then you don’t know what it is like to be professionally great at something. The Sedins do. We can only hope as much of it rubs off on the next core of players as possible. Please respect the Sedins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Business wise, it frees up $14 million for the team to sign other players during the off season. But if there are prospects not ready for the NHL, they'll likely be back for another year and perhaps are best placed on the 3rd line next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erkayloomeh Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 If they came to camp next year on PTO would they make the team? To me it's really simple. If they can be replaced by better players then they should go. If not they should stay. They are currently on Pace for 52 point seasons. That's two players over 50 points. I'm not sure we can replace that. Not to mention they should come in at alot cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said: If they came to camp next year on PTO would they make the team? To me it's really simple. If they can be replaced by better players then they should go. If not they should stay. They are currently on Pace for 52 point seasons. That's two players over 50 points. I'm not sure we can replace that. Not to mention they should come in at alot cheaper. Have to consider zone starts though. Sure they may manage 52 points this season. With almost 67% offensize zone starts lol. The next highest forward bad 44. I think they can be replaced by giving more zone starts to our actual top line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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