Stop the Sedin Hate

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

That wasn't the question.  Clearly if they do not want to return, they will not be on the team.  But what if they want to keep playing but the team does not want them -- who decides?  If the team says "no thanks" does that make them "haters", too?  Or do the Sedins alone determine whether they continue to play on the Vancouver Canucks?  There seems to be some sense of underlying entitlement at play here.

Linden has already said he'd like them back next season. So it is really up to them. I won't be surprised if they sign another year or retire. Nor will it bother me either way. What they've done for the team and the city they've earned the right to decide how and when they go out. But I don't really see there being room for them beyond next season. I imagine the Sedins can see that as well.

 

In a way another season could be a perfect way to end their career. Have the Sedins on stage at the 2019 draft here in Vancouver to first announce their retirement and then make our first round selection 20 years after being drafted themselves.

 

Colorado told Sakic they'd sign him to one year deals as long as he wanted to play and Detroit made the same offer to Yzerman. Some players do so much for an organization they simply deserve that kind of respect.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Only thing that really scares me about re-signing them is their speed.

 

They can clearly still produce offence and their fitness/leadership etc value isn't really arguable. But they're SLOOOOWWWWWWW. In a game that keeps getting faster every year, it's tough to shelter that, particularly TWO guys (and is probably the main reason their d-ability and correspondingly +/- etc has eroded).

 

 

it was so much fun to see the Leipsic-Bo-Brock experiment last night, it concerns me a bit that there would be a lot of blowback (considering how negative we all are, right?) if say Gaudette gets sent to Utica. Look at the Goldy stuff earlier this year (of which I was one voice, not angry I hope).

 

 

 

 

 

[BCNate]

They are going to be 55-60 point players this year.  Those are very good seasons for 2nd line players.  Yes, they do get a load of PP time, but the PP has been one of the lone bright spots on the team this season.  I'd love to see them back next year, even if it pushes young guys to Utica for the start of the year.

[aliboy]

2 hours ago, BCNate said:

They are going to be 55-60 point players this year.  Those are very good seasons for 2nd line players.  Yes, they do get a load of PP time, but the PP has been one of the lone bright spots on the team this season.  I'd love to see them back next year, even if it pushes young guys to Utica for the start of the year.

Exactly and if traded right now they would be top 5 in points on a number of playoff bound teams. We will re-sign them, if they so choose, because they are still producing.

[Green Building]

28 minutes ago, Shift-4 said:

I felt the same way about Linden when he returned. He was my all time favourite Canuck at the time. When he returned he was no more effective than a young Burrows. Time to move on. Out with the old, in with the new. 

Yet I still love them all.

Linden had 15 points in his last season and was quite replaceable. It remains to be seen if we have rookie replacements ready to take the Twins spots, or if we'll get anyone from FA. 

[theo5789]

3 hours ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said:

I think they still play for at least 2-3 years.

 

Would like for them to have limited roles starting next year if guys like Pettersson, Gaudette make it. 

2nd or 3rd line, 2nd PP unit and no OT ice time, they're too slow for OT hockey.

I think it is already known that they will have limited 5v5 role as seen from the start of the year (which seems like most have forgotten). 2nd PP I agree with but only if there are effective players that can replace them. Perhaps have different PP lineups that can be thrown out to shake things up and even throw off the opposition. As for OT, it is hard to not put out your current 2nd/3rd highest scorers to try to help win the game. I can't get behind not having them on in OT altogether, but perhaps have them seperated.

 

3 hours ago, xereau said:

There is nothing wrong with pointing out that

 

(a) Their contracts are up, and

(b) Their production is waning, and

(c) They are taking up valuable spots the youth need, and

(d) Daniel might be magnitudes better than Hank, and

(e) They can not be sheltered behind skillful match making forever, and

(f) That it is simply time we move on, as a team, and forge a new identity.

There is no hatred in any of those statements.  I appreciate all they have done.  I am actually consistently impressed with the timely goals they are able to produce (OK, Daniel).  But I am super tired of the cycle.  And super skeptical of their ability to defend.  And more than ready for a new era to emerge.

I'm just curious to why you believe Daniel is magnitudes better than Hank. Daniel does play with a bit more edge, but statswise, they are identical (just one is a scorer and one is a playmaker).

[JeremyCuddles]

I will stop my Edler hate when people stop hating on the Sedins. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, dukeofcanuck said:

Nobody hates the Sedins, at least I hope. However what happens next year if Gaudette, Petterson, etc are pushing into the lineup. Somethings gotta give, at some point you just gotta move on.

Absolutely.  If they do they are not very good fans.  Many times I've said it's not the end of the world if they resign to reasonable contracts, especially if they don't include NTC or NMC, then we'd have a chance at actually getting some extra picks next year.  

 

That said I'd rather they just hang them up so we can get on with this rebuild and play the kids next year.  With Vanek gone I have a sneaking suspicion the team is keeping spots for the Sedins, but we will have to wait and see.

[alfstonker]

8 hours ago, The Game said:

There's been a lot of Sedin bashing going on here these past few weeks. People have been calling them a burden for the team, that Henrik is a bad captain and that they should retire. This makes me truly sad. The Sedins are the first real superstars to ever play their entire careers for us, and now they get this treatment? 

 

Sure, they aren't the elite players they once were, but given their age, I don't think that you can call them bad. They're on pace for almost 60 points, and Daniel is on pace for 25 goals. Those a really respectable numbers for any player, and especially given that they'll turn 38 this year. 

 

They've never been physical or fast players, but they are strong on the puck, and have the ability to slow down the game with their superb passing. The fact that they are second and third in team scoring proves that they're still effective! 

 

They are the perfect mentors for guys like Bo, Brock, Elias, Jonathan and hopefully Rasmus. They work hard, always talk to media and are all around great people. 

 

I say cherish the time that's left, 'cause it'll be a while until we get to watch such amazing players in a Canucks uniform again. 

 

 

Maybe the OP would like to debate the points made by those who would like to see the Twins retire so that this team can move forward and meet Trevor Linden's declared style.

I don't know about others on here but I don't recall you taking much part in these debates.

 

Use of the words "hate"  and "bashing" in this context is immature.

 

As for the substance of your post.

 

They are a burden now imo. I have given my reasons for thinking this on more than one thread. One being their poor defence and the other being their insistence of making almost every pass to each other, OFTEN leading to interceptions or worse.

 

I maintain that Hank is not NHL captain material. It has nothing to do with his quality as an individual and for me everything to do with refusal to draw a line.

 

Are they really the first superstars? If they are, that is surely more a reflection on the competence of past management. What treatment do you refer to?

 

As for the bolded sentence"(1) it would appear you think that is a reason for wanting them to be permanent fixtures in the side no matter the context. Why?

It wasn't the case with Iginla, Datsyuk, Jagr, Orr, Hull etc. Their 60 points are padded and exaggerated, Alex Biega has more shots at goal playing half as many games and fewer minutes than Hank. 7 of Danny' s 20 goals are on the PP where he has his brother busting a gut to set him up. Danny has blocked 1 shot Loui has blocked 30 playing 13 less games.

Bolded sentence (2) Are you really trying to defend the Twins? We don't want the play slowed down. We want our players to be fast and physical. You can't say they are effective until we have tried the alternatives can we? We may win more games with substitutes who are faster, who are more physical, who can defend, who don't have to force passes to each other, who don't have to be on the same line

 

We don't need them as mentors, we have others, we have coaches, like Green and Manny. They mentor just now and we are 4th from bottom. Dorsett was a better mentor to Bo than the Twins. We don't want them to talk to the media - they tend to give "platitudes r us" interviews, or utter stuff that should be said to the player in question and kept in the room.

 

Indeed it WILL be a while if people like you have your way.

Many of us on here love and respect the Sedins and what they have done in a Canucks jersey but think it is time this rebuild turned the corner and it is not doing that until we substitute their line with speed, skill youth and grit. If you need an example you only had to watch the NYR game.

[alfstonker]

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Linden has already said he'd like them back next season. So it is really up to them. I won't be surprised if they sign another year or retire. Nor will it bother me either way. What they've done for the team and the city they've earned the right to decide how and when they go out. But I don't really see there being room for them beyond next season. I imagine the Sedins can see that as well.

 

In a way another season could be a perfect way to end their career. Have the Sedins on stage at the 2019 draft here in Vancouver to first announce their retirement and then make our first round selection 20 years after being drafted themselves.

 

Colorado told Sakic they'd sign him to one year deals as long as he wanted to play and Detroit made the same offer to Yzerman. Some players do so much for an organization they simply deserve that kind of respect.

What an amateur way to run a professional Hockey Club.

No player(s) should get that kind of say in any Club. It is not like they have led us to a couple of Stanley Cups.

The truth is that if they had not played for this team we may just have likely drafted two players who could have helped bring a Cup to this City. 

[Baggins]

12 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

What an amateur way to run a professional Hockey Club.

No player(s) should get that kind of say in any Club. It is not like they have led us to a couple of Stanley Cups.

The truth is that if they had not played for this team we may just have likely drafted two players who could have helped bring a Cup to this City. 

Takes a team to win the cup not a couple of individuals.

[EdgarM]

26 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Maybe the OP would like to debate the points made by those who would like to see the Twins retire so that this team can move forward and meet Trevor Linden's declared style.

I don't know about others on here but I don't recall you taking much part in these debates.

 

Use of the words "hate"  and "bashing" in this context is immature.

 

As for the substance of your post.

 

They are a burden now imo. I have given my reasons for thinking this on more than one thread. One being their poor defence and the other being their insistence of making almost every pass to each other, OFTEN leading to interceptions or worse.

 

I maintain that Hank is not NHL captain material. It has nothing to do with his quality as an individual and for me everything to do with refusal to draw a line.

 

Are they really the first superstars? If they are, that is surely more a reflection on the competence of past management. What treatment do you refer to?

 

As for the bolded sentence"(1) it would appear you think that is a reason for wanting them to be permanent fixtures in the side no matter the context. Why?

It wasn't the case with Iginla, Datsyuk, Jagr, Orr, Hull etc. Their 60 points are padded and exaggerated, Alex Biega has more shots at goal playing half as many games and fewer minutes than Hank. 7 of Danny' s 20 goals are on the PP where he has his brother busting a gut to set him up. Danny has blocked 1 shot Loui has blocked 30 playing 13 less games.

Bolded sentence (2) Are you really trying to defend the Twins? We don't want the play slowed down. We want our players to be fast and physical. You can't say they are effective until we have tried the alternatives can we? We may win more games with substitutes who are faster, who are more physical, who can defend, who don't have to force passes to each other, who don't have to be on the same line

 

We don't need them as mentors, we have others, we have coaches, like Green and Manny. They mentor just now and we are 4th from bottom. Dorsett was a better mentor to Bo than the Twins. We don't want them to talk to the media - they tend to give "platitudes r us" interviews, or utter stuff that should be said to the player in question and kept in the room.

 

Indeed it WILL be a while if people like you have your way.

Many of us on here love and respect the Sedins and what they have done in a Canucks jersey but think it is time this rebuild turned the corner and it is not doing that until we substitute their line with speed, skill youth and grit. If you need an example you only had to watch the NYR game.

I think with many of us that is what it all boils down to, "STYLE OF HOCKEY". For those of you who have been a Canuck Fan in the leaner years remember a more "broke", not so talented, but "had a lot of heart" teams of the 80's and 90's. The style that Linden came from.

I think many of us would like to go back to that kind of hockey where the team gave everything, every night and were more of the "plumber" type mentality of "go to work" everyday.

I watched many years of the Nazzy era and Sedin Era where the TEAM took nights off which is maddening to see, especially if you are paying to see a game live. This seemed to get worse as the team got more talented.

The other thing a lot are looking for changes in is the "gentlemanly" Leadership style which has lead this team for decades now too. We like hitting and the occasional fight still.

Nobody is taking anything away from the Twins, when their numbers get raised to the rafters I will be cheering like everyone else, its just time for change now.

[Ronaldoescobar]

The twins deserve to play for the nucks as long as they want. After what they have done for the franchise if they want to play into their 80's or take 20 min a game in penalties or finish the season with a -100 rating and 0 points, you give them deals no questions asked.

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, xereau said:

There is nothing wrong with pointing out that

 

(a) Their contracts are up, and

(b) Their production is waning, and

(c) They are taking up valuable spots the youth need, and

(d) Daniel might be magnitudes better than Hank, and

(e) They can not be sheltered behind skillful match making forever, and

(f) That it is simply time we move on, as a team, and forge a new identity.

There is no hatred in any of those statements.  I appreciate all they have done.  I am actually consistently impressed with the timely goals they are able to produce (OK, Daniel).  But I am super tired of the cycle.  And super skeptical of their ability to defend.  And more than ready for a new era to emerge.

Daniel has 2 more points than Hank. Magnitudes!

They're 21 and 19 points ahead of the next highest producing forward (Eriksson) currently on the team that isn't first line (Baertschi/Horvat/Boeser).

[TheRocket18]

Probably another year with them.

Dammit.

[Positive Canuck]

6 minutes ago, TheRocket18 said:

Probably another year with them.

Dammit.

Thinking Positive.
One more year of them eating prime minutes might help us have a shot at Jack Hughes in 2019.

[Phat Fingers]

Two Goals.  Henrik has as many goals playing with the Sedins as Megna did   lol. 

 

In jest!  

 

Their play has really stepped up, especially Dank.  They may be able to squeak out another season or two, but they should be split up more so they don’t get hemmed in like they have been.  

 

It could be an effective weapon to split them up and reunite them depending on the opponent and flow of the game. 

 

It could force Hank to shoot more, making him a less predictable player and a better player. 

 

 

[Sweathog]

They've had great careers here, but it really is the time to turn the page. If they want to play another year, let them sign with a contender. Fans lobbying to not re-sign the twins is not a sign of hate, or disrespect.

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, alfstonker said:

What an amateur way to run a professional Hockey Club.

No player(s) should get that kind of say in any Club. It is not like they have led us to a couple of Stanley Cups.

The truth is that if they had not played for this team we may just have likely drafted two players who could have helped bring a Cup to this City. 

To be honest, your statement could be said about anyone on this team. Had we had "x player" instead of "y player" we could have won a cup. To single out the Sedins to that is kind of petty and shows nothing more than bias rather than smarts.

[Kevin Biestra]

2 hours ago, Green Building said:

Linden had 15 points in his last season and was quite replaceable. It remains to be seen if we have rookie replacements ready to take the Twins spots, or if we'll get anyone from FA. 

Honestly, 15 points when playing 9 minutes a night, half of that shorthanded, and scratched for 1/3 of the season isn't too shabby.