Is Markstrom now the Elite Goalie he was always projected to be?

[Boeserker]

Markstrom has probably jumped the shark with his last few weeks of play.

 

Prove me wrong Marky.

[shazzam]

Cam Talbot was elite too then

[RogersTowell]

I thought to myself that to be fair, before passing judgement I should compare Markstrom's career stats so far with an 'elite' goalie up to age 28.  I decided I'd look at a guy most of us would agree was elite - Patrick Roy.  Surprisingly to me, Roy's early career wasn't statistically all that good and pretty comparable to our boy Marky.  For statistical comparison I looked almost exclusively at save percentage, since goals against doesn't take into account how bad your defense is at suppressing shots.  In the end, however, you can't just use these metrics.  Bad defense can also lead to higher quality shots as well as more shots.

 

Roy didn't really become a dominant goalie until his 30's, when, not surprisingly, he played on an elite team.  We put a lot of emphasis on goal tenders and not completely without good reason.  In the end, however, we have to realize that they are only one part of a much bigger whole and on their own, they aren't going to turn a team from a bottom feeder to a cup contender.

 

My final verdict: he's getting better (or the team in front of him is) and we won't know for sure until he's in his mid-30s and his career is almost over.  He certainly doesn't get a lot of SO's for an 'elite' tender.  My eye test says he's good and trending upwards.

[TheRealistOptimist]

17 hours ago, Fateless said:

Markstrom's GAA is currently 0.04 worse than last year and his SV% is only 0.001 better than last year. We all agree that Markstrom has LOOKED better this year, but statistically he hasn't really improved. I think Markstrom has done well at making "big saves" this year which has granted him some leeway with the eye test, but he's still letting in as many goals as he always have. Markstrom is what he is at this point and I'd rather we focus on developing our goaltender of the future in Demko and DiPietro rather than risk slowing their development to give the crease to a goalie who hasn't really improved much over the last couple of years.

Goals are up this year, equipment is smaller. Markstrom has been better. With that being said I don’t believe Markstrom can be considered elite until he has been doing it for multiple years and probably until his team starts to have more success. 

 

I believe the plan was to give Demko 10-15 games this year (injuries have affected this), then have Demko split time with Markstrom next year and then two years from now have Demko as our starting goalie. Demko will need to have a big offseason and perform really well next year to keep that plan in place though. Plus Markstrom has improved substantially this year and I don’t think if he does it again next year, is ready to play out the rest of his career as a backup/fringe starter. 

 

So it would be wise to hold off giving Markstrom an extension until January of 2020 at the earliest (if he keeps performing like this).  If he is still performing well, then I would look to give him a 2-3 year extension around $5 million max. A lot of this still depends on how Demko performs next season. 

[thundernuts]

In my opinion, no goalie is elite until they have playoff success, and steal games when it counts.  Markstrom has been excellent this year, probably the team MPV.  Unfortunately, we won't really know what we have until the team makes the playoffs.

 

Dan Cloutier had some great regular seasons, but no playoff success.  Had he stolen some games, or stood on his head to steal a round or two in the playoffs, he could have been considered elite during his prime.  

[combover]

Elite No, but he’s been great this season. 

He has easily been the mvp of the Canucks this season. 

 

[spook007]

Depends on the contract...

If he can be signed to about 4-5 mill / year, sure sign him for 5 years, but with no NTC/NMC

(If signed at 5mill / year he may not need to be protected for them expansion?)

 

It'll be 3-4 years before Di Pietro will be able command a permanent position as the back up.

 

Demko probably still has a few years left before he can take over Markstroms position as no.1

 

Don't see what the hurry is all about. Different story if Marky was crapping the bed, or Demko had looked incredible... neither is the case.

Demkos time will come, but if Schneider could be a back up for several years, Demko should be able to as well.

 

If in 3 years Demko has taken the reigns, and Di Pietro has shown, he is better than Marky as well, then trade Marke at that stage.

[SilentSam]

23 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

There is no question Jacob Markstrom has seen this season transform his career trajectory.

 

He has posted better numbers and performed better than all recent expectations... despite playing behind a porous defense.

 

But is this really a surprise?  Markstrom when originally drafted was projected to be an elite goaltender... a franchise piece.

 

The question is, has he finally reached his potential?  Or is this season an anomaly.... and just a blip in his career of underachievement?

 

There is also the fact his contract expires in 2019... what do the Canucks offer him?

Sorry , but my question back to you must be,  What was he really projected to be elite?

As a 2nd round 31st overall, that might be “potentially good” in the world of goaltending.. but possibly not an “elite” pick.

For example, Cory Schneider was a first round 26th overall.. and I think expectations then were “elite” of him.

I think Markstroms latest form has him playing “exceptional” at this point..   “Elite” if his play continues for successive years.

But I do think the Panthers were perhaps taking a chance on Markstrom when they picked him.

 

[TheRealistOptimist]

16 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Sorry , but my question back to you must be,  What was he really projected to be elite?

As a 2nd round 31st overall, that might be “potentially good” in the world of goaltending.. but possibly not an “elite” pick.

For example, Cory Schneider was a first round 26th overall.. and I think expectations then were “elite” of him.

I think Markstroms latest form has him playing “exceptional” at this point..   “Elite” if his play continues for successive years.

But I do think the Panthers were perhaps taking a chance on Markstrom when they picked him.

 

At one point Markstrom was considered to be the best goalie in the world not in the NHL.

 

This article from the hockey writers in 2012 has a paragraph labeled “Skills of a Future Star”

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/jacob-markstrom-the-best-goalie-youve-never-heard-of-2/

 

So I think it’s safe to say that expectations at one point were that he would turn into an “Elite” goalie

[WHL rocks]

He's been elite since December.

 

Marky will be getting a big money long term contract after next season if he keeps playing like this. 

 

All depends on how Demko develops over the next year. If Clark can turn him into a solid starter then Marky gets traded at trade deadline or walks as UFA.

 

If Demko looks like a backup then Canucks will have to extend Marky. 

[Cup2022]

7 hours ago, mephnick said:

They do on bad teams. Gibson is arguably the best goaltender in the league and look how that's turned out. Mediocre goaltenders like Hellebyuck and Rittich are propped up by good teams.

 

I don't think Marky is close to elite, but goaltending stats are primarily team stats

Nope they win one off those ten buy stealing a game.

[TheRealistOptimist]

20 hours ago, Cup2022 said:

Elite goalies don't go on ten game losing streaks

1 hour ago, Cup2022 said:

Nope they win one off those ten buy stealing a game.

Markstrom has never had a 10 game losing streak. He's had a 9 game losing streak in Florida but one those games was lost in a shootout. 

 

Patrick Roy lost 7 straight starts at one point, but had a 0-8-2 record in 10 straight starts. Another time he had 7 straight losses and 9 losses in 10 games. Roy played at a time with no shootouts so you could get Ties which in one of those cases broke up his losing streak. 

 

That's one of the best goalies ever and yet he still had long losing streaks. As a goalie you can't control how many goals your teammates score. Also Roy is the only goalie I have looked up, but there are probably other great goalies who have had long losing streaks.

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

At one point Markstrom was considered to be the best goalie in the world not in the NHL.

 

This article from the hockey writers in 2012 has a paragraph labeled “Skills of a Future Star”

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/jacob-markstrom-the-best-goalie-youve-never-heard-of-2/

 

So I think it’s safe to say that expectations at one point were that he would turn into an “Elite” goalie

Thanks,   That article was written in 2012..  4 years after he was drafted..  I guess what I was asking is if he was projected to be elite as a late 2nd rnd pick?

.. not 4 years of development afterwards.

As you can see, although Schneider was drafted 1st rnd and projected elite, has fallen a bit short of his projection..

I think Markstrom is surpassing projections at this point.. longetivity of his above average game keeps him at it, 

He needs crease protection to stay healthy for everything to last, and of course a better D core to help with all of the above and out of those 50 shot games.

 

[*Buzzsaw*]

Once again with the Devils game, Markstrom made a strong argument that he has turned around his game in a real way.

 

It is even more surprising he is playing so well when you consider the team has basically left him high and dry and without any protection.

[iceman64]

On 3/14/2019 at 3:41 PM, *Buzzsaw* said:

There is no question Jacob Markstrom has seen this season transform his career trajectory.

 

He has posted better numbers and performed better than all recent expectations... despite playing behind a porous defense.

 

But is this really a surprise?  Markstrom when originally drafted was projected to be an elite goaltender... a franchise piece.

 

The question is, has he finally reached his potential?  Or is this season an anomaly.... and just a blip in his career of underachievement?

 

There is also the fact his contract expires in 2019... what do the Canucks offer him?

How about a thank you note to our goalie coach, Ian Clark? Seems to me he deserves it..

[DrJockitch]

He is a decent goalie on a hot run.  Gotta be really good for a lot more time to be considered elite.

The second most important add to this team (EP being the first of course) was Ian Clark.  

[iinatcc]

20 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

At one point Markstrom was considered to be the best goalie in the world not in the NHL.

 

This article from the hockey writers in 2012 has a paragraph labeled “Skills of a Future Star”

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/jacob-markstrom-the-best-goalie-youve-never-heard-of-2/

 

So I think it’s safe to say that expectations at one point were that he would turn into an “Elite” goalie

Basically what we all thought of Cody Hodgson at the time 

[WeneedLumme]

16 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Basically what we all thought of Cody Hodgson at the time 

I remember watching Cody play. If it were not for his health issues, he quite possibly would have become elite.

[Nuxfanabroad]

This is the time to make a 4 or 5 yr pitch to JM. IF he'll sign for a good cap AAV(around 5 mill)..then we bank on the "bird in the hand".

 

OTOH, if he's looking to cash in(I doubt it..but whatever?), then I'd deal him at the draft(sell high, while he has a 3 mill contract), & get a vet BU to help the kid.

[kloubek]

On 3/15/2019 at 4:12 PM, SilentSam said:

As you can see, although Schneider was drafted 1st rnd and projected elite, has fallen a bit short of his projection.

I don't agree.  Easy to say now that he has faltered big time but I think if you asked most after he posted 6 seasons better than .92 save percentage (several times closer to .93) I think they would say he was elite at that time.  Apparently it didnt last long but that's a half dozen years of really good hockey.

 

As for Markstrom, he did very well this year considering our questionable/depleted defense.  If he was on a better team, I would say he has been quite average as a starter. Even as it stands I do not feel he has played extremely well long enough to be called elite.  If he carries this play through all of next season then I will become a believer but at this time I don't think it is realistic to label him with any title quite yet.  Many players (especially goalies) have managed good runs only to have their deficiencies exposed soon enough.

 

If we did re-sign Marky, I think we would basically have to move Demko or potentially lose him in expansion. He might garner a good return; package him with Goldie and/or Hutton for a top LW or D prospect maybe?