[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019

[HKSR]

3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Quinn is great but, I disagree with your take on Makar you're not giving him nearly enough the credit he deserves for his play. 

If you take Makar out of the Avs lineup and place him into our lineup in place of Quinn, do you feel that Makar would still have 25pts in 24gms? 

 

Now if you take Quinn out of our lineup and place him into the Avs lineup, do you feel Quinn would have 4pts more over the course of the past 25 games?

 

Honest questions.

[PhillipBlunt]

4 hours ago, Bertuzzi44ever said:

I care? Because I talk truth.

You talk truth? Coolio.

Quote

everyone can be ultra negative I bring up a fact and you moan. Get over it

You're super negative. Your facts aren't substantiated, so they're your opinion. Much like my opinion is that you're a banal broken record. Get over it yourself, bub.

Quote

i haven’t seen anyone say ...not since the 90s

What are you referring to here?

Edited November 28, 2019 by PhillipBlunt

[D-Money]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

If you take Makar out of the Avs lineup and place him into our lineup in place of Quinn, do you feel that Makar would still have 25pts in 24gms? 

 

Now if you take Quinn out of our lineup and place him into the Avs lineup, do you feel Quinn would have 4pts more over the course of the past 25 games?

 

Honest questions.

Possibly. Makar seems to be doing pretty well even though Avs have been down 2 of their top 3 forwards.

 

And even if they are on par offensively, from the games I've seen, Makar has a definite edge on Hughes in defensive ability.

[Wanless]

38 minutes ago, HKSR said:

If you take Makar out of the Avs lineup and place him into our lineup in place of Quinn, do you feel that Makar would still have 25pts in 24gms? 

 

Now if you take Quinn out of our lineup and place him into the Avs lineup, do you feel Quinn would have 4pts more over the course of the past 25 games?

 

Honest questions.

It is something to consider

Edited November 28, 2019 by Wanless

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Bertuzzi44ever said:

So it’s the injuries five years in a row?

 

dude almost every team

has bigger stars out then those dahlin Marner Bergeron that team didn’t even have Crosby, and we dominated at the beginning four times against Detroit and la that’s basically half of our 9 ROW wins we have in 26 games.

 

im sick of this injury excuse we have no great dman but a 19 year old and this needs to be addressed by Benning 

heh, neither did the Pens last night.  I'd take one Crosby over a team full of bottom six forwards.  

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Bandwagoners are those who jump off a wagon when things get bad or jump on a wagon when things are taking off (Chicago post 2010). In my experience most Canucks fans stick around through the bad times. Hell, at this point most of the seasons following 2010/2011 and 2011/2012 qualify. Those seasons had bright spots sure, but there were certainly more valleys than peaks. 

 

I get emotional when we win or lose, I'm very invested. Perhaps too invested. Sometimes I'll check out early when the games get real ugly, but I'm usually back to reading up on the team and following them intensely the next day. There are a lot of folks in the same boat. Our criticisms, frustrations, our emotional and rational calls for change, ect don't make us bad fans. Nor do they make us bandwagoners. Sometimes folks get carried away, sometimes we say dumb $&!#. Doesn't mean those reactions aren't valid. 

 

We get worked up, frustrated, ect because we give a damn. 

You're probably better at that than I am, but I def get where you're coming from. We're only human, humans react. Sometimes it's hard to be objective. 

I like to think most people can see the positives of this young group, problem is it's not all positives regarding this team and people are gonna dig into those things as well. Looking for silver linings is great, but there's a lot more to a big picture than it's silver linings and positives. 

 

I know you mean well, and I wasn't trying to stir anything up. But people expressing their frustration, bewilderment, their grievances, calls for change, ect is important too. People are going to express those things, I'm going to express those things. There were good things about last night, sure. We scored a bunch of goals at even strength finally, Hughes and Petey picked up points, Miller scored. But we also had one shot on goal after the first ten minutes, collapsed despite having a sizable lead, didn't show the same resilience Pittsburgh did (they're missing guys too) and gave up five goals in a period. There's always going to be both sides, even after the games we win. 

Don't take it personal Coconuts.....I usually post after reading a good amount of the same comments.....and when I get my thoughts sorted out

 

And, I don't have any problem with CDC voicing frustration.....but, I do have a problem when the voices are asking for change...aka Benning and Green

 

People in general (me too!) have to realize that there are a lot of factors, even when you "may" want change, especially to such pivotal positions.....

 

And as a former "tanker", it isn't just as easy as saying trade Eriksson, or move this guy...…...especially when you are trying to balance current and future budgets

 

That goes for players, coaches and GM's...……..also, there may just not be a guy management wants as a replacement,

 

as other teams are either in a good place or have their own issues to deal with...……………….

 

Here is what is coming soon...……..Sutter, Roussel, Beagle, Ferland and Motte...….that is replacing 5 weaker players with 5 stronger...….that is a good start

 

Here is what is coming later...……...Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lind, DiPietro, Madden and possibly Tryamkin sooner than later...……..that is 6 more within the next 2 years

 

And that is only what we know of...………….

 

So, yes be frustrated, question, yell, scream, laugh,  but we have an above 500 team, that is trending upwards over the next few years

 

That is enough for me to be happy with

 

I just imagine what Hughes will be like in 3 years, and I am all smiles...…..

 

These are growing pains 

 

In saying alllllllll that...….I hope the coaches keep learning too! (I am not perfect either)

 

Especially...……...

 

Zone entries and sitting back on leads

[Elias Pettersson]

14 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

What I liked:

 

The team started to ignore Green's dump and chase system and started to focus on entering the O-Zone in possession.

 

-  Green waited till the game was tied to use his timeout...   WTF>????  You use your timeout BEFORE you lose the lead... not after they tie it.  Poor decision not to take the timeout after the Pens made it 6-5.

 

-  Then Green gambles on the offside when it was obvious Malkin was in control of the puck when he entered...  and as a result... the Canucks wasted two minutes of their precious time left to tie the game.  Another poor decision.

 

-  Green gives Goldobin exactly 3 shifts with Pettersson, barely enough time to warm up.... before he goes to someone else and dumps Goldy on the third or fourth line, or makes him ride the bench. (8:37 total)  This is despite the fact he had a good game with two scoring opportunities which he manufactured, one good setup, two good defensive plays, one hit, and NO giveaways or major lapses.  But no, Green doesn't really want to give him a chance... he prefers not to reverse his Training Camp decision rather than see if Goldy can perform.

 

Hoping the team continues to ignore Green's coaching and we see some more creative plays from them.

Instead of ignoring Green's coaching and obvious mistakes why not just get a new coach who will let the kids play the way they are supposed to??

 

We are succeeding to some degree in spite of Green, not because of him.  The only reason we are still in a playoff hunt today is because of Benning's drafting and Benning bringing in the players needed to succeed, not because of Green's coaching philosophy which you pointed out is being ignored by the players.

[shiznak]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

If you take Makar out of the Avs lineup and place him into our lineup in place of Quinn, do you feel that Makar would still have 25pts in 24gms? 

 

Now if you take Quinn out of our lineup and place him into the Avs lineup, do you feel Quinn would have 4pts more over the course of the past 25 games?

 

Honest questions.

If you want to play “what if’s”....... What if Hughes doesn’t play on the powerplay? He’ll only have 6 measly points.

[SergioMomesso]

50 minutes ago, shiznak said:

If you want to play “what if’s”....... What if Hughes doesn’t play on the powerplay? He’ll only have 6 measly points.

And if Makar is in our lineup, that would mean Pettersson was already gone or we passed on him. 

[LowerMainLander18]

It's really amusing to read that fans think Dump and Chase is Green's system. 

Interesting theory. 

Green's holding back players' creativity.. another interesting theory. 

 

Doesn't make much sense to me but it does sound convenient tho.

Whatever it takes to get over this loss lol. 

 

If we have a problem with the coach, at least fault him for what he actually did wrong. 

A lot of the points I read on discussion boards.. They don't make much sense to me. 

 

Green got us to another flat start to the game. 

He also did an untimely coaches' challenge with 3 minutes left to the game where we were trailing by 1 goal. 

His time out could have been better timed but at the same time, the X-factor was how the whole team failed to respond to those back to back 6-4, 6-5 goals. (No excuse tho, he should know his young team better than anyone else and have some anticipation that the team would be shaken after those quick goals)

 

I wouldnt say dressing Goldy and Graovac was his problem as his choices were limited anyways. 

I wouldnt say moving Leivo and Pears up and down the lineup was his problem. Again.. his choices were vastly limited. 

I wouldnt say we failed to play to our potential because he adamantly preached Dump and Chase system which is just false....... 

Green limiting players' creativity? Now that's an interesting theory that helps the fans not get disappointed at our young star forwards.

 

Having high expectations for ur favourite team is good and all but let's not forget our realistic goal isn't winning the Cup this year. 

It's to get back to the playoffs. And we are missing almost 2 full lines of regulars up front.

Injuries are injuries. I think it's ludicrous some people are comparing our injury situation with Avs', Pitts', Toronto's.. etc..

Our best players are 1st, 2nd, 3rd year pros.. Expecting them to be able to carry this team like how those who have been maturing in the league for 4, 5,.. even 10+ years is just wrong. 

 

The fact of the matter is that injuries hit us hard. Players have not been competing hard enough. Coaches made some decisions that could irate some fans. The level of competition rose in November.. 

 

This was a bad loss. No sugar coating it. But don't be so caught up with one thing over the other. 

[canuck73_3]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

If you take Makar out of the Avs lineup and place him into our lineup in place of Quinn, do you feel that Makar would still have 25pts in 24gms? 

 

Now if you take Quinn out of our lineup and place him into the Avs lineup, do you feel Quinn would have 4pts more over the course of the past 25 games?

 

Honest questions.

You don't give Makar enough credit and down playing it to being because of MacKinnon is a cop out. They're missing 2/3 of their top 3 forwards as well... 

 

Makar is better than Hughes at both ends of the ice and that is not a knock on Hughes, just 2 incredible players with loads of elite potential. It's a fun race to watch but Makar has the edge if we're truly being honest. 

[canuck73_3]

3 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

You talk truth? Coolio.

You're super negative. Your facts aren't substantiated, so their your opinion. Much like my opinion is that you're a banal broken record. Get over it yourself, bub.

What are you referring to here?

One would think if everyone was against someone's opinion they might start to float that their opinion is wrong. But not @Bertuzzi44ever it's everyone else that is wrong 

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

One would think if everyone was against someone's opinion they might start to float that their opinion is wrong. But not @Bertuzzi44ever it's everyone else that is wrong 

Reminds me of someone...….

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

You don't give Makar enough credit and down playing it to being because of MacKinnon is a cop out. They're missing 2/3 of their top 3 forwards as well... 

 

Makar is better than Hughes at both ends of the ice and that is not a knock on Hughes, just 2 incredible players with loads of elite potential. It's a fun race to watch but Makar has the edge if we're truly being honest. 

I don't think you're giving MacKinnon enough credit.  Having the opportunity to play alongside MacKinnon is huge. 

 

I can agree that Makar is better defensively, but Hughes drives the play WAY more than Makar.  Makar is a good passer and a good shooter, but he simply doesn't CREATE plays like Hughes.  Passing the puck to Mac for one-timers is not exactly driving plays.

 

Anyways, yes, watching the two of them mature into a couple of the league's top defencemen will be fun.  The best part of all this?  We're actually able to talk about one of our own defencemen finally being in the breath of maturing into one of the league's top defencemen for the future.  Exciting without a doubt.

 

[DefCon1]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

If you take Makar out of the Avs lineup and place him into our lineup in place of Quinn, do you feel that Makar would still have 25pts in 24gms? 

 

Now if you take Quinn out of our lineup and place him into the Avs lineup, do you feel Quinn would have 4pts more over the course of the past 25 games?

 

Honest questions.

Hughes has better drive and edgw work than makar and he is more shifty. Makar has a great shot. IMO Hughes would have the same amount of points or more than Makar if he played for an Avs team that has more depth than the Canucks. Canucks have one line that is going while Avs have plenty of scoring depth and Mckinnon that keeps playing with Makar.

[DefCon1]

33 minutes ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

It's really amusing to read that fans think Dump and Chase is Green's system. 

Interesting theory. 

Green's holding back players' creativity.. another interesting theory. 

 

Doesn't make much sense to me but it does sound convenient tho.

Whatever it takes to get over this loss lol. 

 

If we have a problem with the coach, at least fault him for what he actually did wrong. 

A lot of the points I read on discussion boards.. They don't make much sense to me. 

 

Green got us to another flat start to the game. 

He also did an untimely coaches' challenge with 3 minutes left to the game where we were trailing by 1 goal. 

His time out could have been better timed but at the same time, the X-factor was how the whole team failed to respond to those back to back 6-4, 6-5 goals. (No excuse tho, he should know his young team better than anyone else and have some anticipation that the team would be shaken after those quick goals)

 

I wouldnt say dressing Goldy and Graovac was his problem as his choices were limited anyways. 

I wouldnt say moving Leivo and Pears up and down the lineup was his problem. Again.. his choices were vastly limited. 

I wouldnt say we failed to play to our potential because he adamantly preached Dump and Chase system which is just false....... 

Green limiting players' creativity? Now that's an interesting theory that helps the fans not get disappointed at our young star forwards.

 

Having high expectations for ur favourite team is good and all but let's not forget our realistic goal isn't winning the Cup this year. 

It's to get back to the playoffs. And we are missing almost 2 full lines of regulars up front.

Injuries are injuries. I think it's ludicrous some people are comparing our injury situation with Avs', Pitts', Toronto's.. etc..

Our best players are 1st, 2nd, 3rd year pros.. Expecting them to be able to carry this team like how those who have been maturing in the league for 4, 5,.. even 10+ years is just wrong. 

 

The fact of the matter is that injuries hit us hard. Players have not been competing hard enough. Coaches made some decisions that could irate some fans. The level of competition rose in November.. 

 

This was a bad loss. No sugar coating it. But don't be so caught up with one thing over the other. 

Green was at fault for this game. when you have a 6-3 lead with 13 minutes left, you need to lock it down and play trap, as simple as that. Unfortunately Green didnt take a timeout at 6-4 and took a timeout at 6-6 when it was too late. These are the games that will decide if Canucks make the playoffs or not. If we cant win a game 6-3 with 13 minutes left, we might as well not make the playoffs. I think a coaching change is necessary because Green isnt the type of coach that will take this team to the top. What is his pedigree? Just being good with young kids? Hopefully Benning sees this before its too late.

[DefCon1]

5 hours ago, Darius said:

i kept thinking "why are they handing the whole perimiter of the d zone to the other team"....they seem to collapse ..dont know if this is out of panic or if its the defensive system.  it happens too much...happens in consecutive games.

 

It would be interesting to see/study what kind of changes Tippett has made in Edmonton.  I know that McNugget and Drai are flying high right now but Edmonton looked horrible defensively last year-  doesnt look like they are put on the ropes as much this year.

Because Tippet is the master of putting a competent defensive system that wins games unlike an AHLer like Baumgartner and our AHL coach Green. We need a more competent coach otherwise we wont make the playoffs and we do have the players and skills to make the playoffs.

[DefCon1]

4 hours ago, Bertuzzi44ever said:

Everyone’s blaming green when our d is atrocious

 

Our best dman is 19.

 

name the other great dman on this team. I’ll wait 

How come our D was so great early in the year? Its not the D, its the fact they changed it up and made our defensive structure worse. we are less aggressive on PK and less aggressive on D unlike in October. I blame it on the coaching staff not the players.

[Junkyard Dog]

5 hours ago, Bertuzzi44ever said:

So it’s the injuries five years in a row?

 

dude almost every team

has bigger stars out then those dahlin Marner Bergeron that team didn’t even have Crosby, and we dominated at the beginning four times against Detroit and la that’s basically half of our 9 ROW wins we have in 26 games.

 

im sick of this injury excuse we have no great dman but a 19 year old and this needs to be addressed by Benning 

So you’re saying that the injuries haven’t played a significant part???

 

So your saying with the soft ass lineup we have that lacks any sort of quality defensive play out of the bottom 6 is capable of winning games and be a playoff team???

 

You realize how ridiculous that sounds right?
 

We have an average D core I have consistently stated that. Notice how their play went to $&!# when these guys went down with injury? With these guys out they’re under more pressure since they don’t have many forwards to help them out defensively. They’re cracking under that pressure. 

Other teams are more capable of making up for their injuries, especially when they are not missing an entire bottom 6 like us. That’s the key thing here. We’re not missing 1 good player but an entire bottom 6. That’s a significant blow however you put it. 

 

We were on a streak of not giving up more than 3 goals a game before these guys went out. We actually managed to close out games before these guys went out 

 

I am sick of the injuries too dude but the significance of injuries are capable of making or breaking teams. It’s been that way for years. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

5 hours ago, Bertuzzi44ever said:

Everyone’s blaming green when our d is atrocious

 

Our best dman is 19.

 

name the other great dman on this team. I’ll wait 

On paper our D is OK. Not good, not terrible. Merely OK. At the very least an NHL defense. They should be pretty solid top to bottom. The fact that they're not speaks volumes about the $&!#ty coaching that has them collapsing in front of the net as soon as the opposing team enters the offensive zone. 

 

Green is the problem.