Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Guest Dasein]

Good teams have size.

Great teams have speed.

Elite teams have both.

Virtanen is Elite.

and skill

You know, according to your criteria, Victor Oreskovich is just as elite as Jake Virtanen

[WonderTwinPowers]

and skill

You know, according to your criteria, Victor Oreskovich is just as elite as Jake Virtanen

Elite teams have a good mix of all three, I won't say Jake is elite but he could still be a large part of an elite team. No reason to be down on the kid yet, it's amazing what changes in a year. Nobody was that big on Anthony Duclair, or Max Domi a year ago, this year their futures are bright.

[Guest Dasein]

Elite teams have a good mix of all three, I won't say Jake is elite but he could still be a large part of an elite team. No reason to be down on the kid yet, it's amazing what changes in a year. Nobody was that big on Anthony Duclair, or Max Domi a year ago, this year their futures are bright.

For sure - you don't need a team full of elite players to be an elite team, but a roster with players that play their role well so that they play together as an elite team

You're also right in that a lot can change in a year, but those examples are off IMO

Duclair scored 50 goals a year ago in the Q and Domi had 93 points - a lot of people were high on both guys even a year ago. There were question marks, but the issue surround these two were different from Virtanen in that their skills was never in question - these guys could flat out play. Rather, the question following them were one of character, and Duclair and Domi overcame that (especially Domi, who became London's captain)

The question that follows Virtanen at the moment is different since it's actually about his skill level - people question whether he has that elite skill. Like you say, Virtanen could break out next season and prove everyone wrong, but for Jake, he actually has to prove that he can be elite, unlike Duclair and Domi who had to answer questions about their character

[WonderTwinPowers]

The question that follows Virtanen at the moment is different since it's actually about his skill level - people question whether he has that elite skill. Like you say, Virtanen could break out next season and prove everyone wrong, but for Jake, he actually has to prove that he can be elite, unlike Duclair and Domi who had to answer questions about their character

I don't quite agree that it's skill that Jake needs to show, but rather consistency, you don't score 40+ in the WHL as a 17 year old without skill. I don't want to say it was all useage or because of the injury, but it defiantly seems like it was an off year for Jake. Yet he still managed to be PPG and make the world juniors, even as a role player.

I'll reserve judgment for a few years on the kid, and still be pretty stoked to have a local, homegrown talent. Players like Virtanen, McCann, and Horvat are the players that win championships. Its no coincidence they've all played large roles on strong teams. Nylanders, and Ehlers may be fun to watch especially in juniors or in less physical leagues (SHL) but their success rate in the NHL is usually very hit and miss. As are all prospects really, but I like Jakes chances and think he'll be a fan favorite, whether its putting people into benches with a big hit, or people in the seats with a big goal.

Edited April 6, 2015 by WonderTwinPowers

[Canucks1219]

For sure - you don't need a team full of elite players to be an elite team, but a roster with players that play their role well so that they play together as an elite team

You're also right in that a lot can change in a year, but those examples are off IMO

Duclair scored 50 goals a year ago in the Q and Domi had 93 points - a lot of people were high on both guys even a year ago. There were question marks, but the issue surround these two were different from Virtanen in that their skills was never in question - these guys could flat out play. Rather, the question following them were one of character, and Duclair and Domi overcame that (especially Domi, who became London's captain)

The question that follows Virtanen at the moment is different since it's actually about his skill level - people question whether he has that elite skill. Like you say, Virtanen could break out next season and prove everyone wrong, but for Jake, he actually has to prove that he can be elite, unlike Duclair and Domi who had to answer questions about their character

A very important elite trait that isn't about hands, shot, playmaking, etc. is consistency. Shift-to-shift/game-to-game consistency, and if we're talking "elite" then it needs to go beyond just "effort" and into "production" too.

Virtanen has game-breaking speed, slick hands, a dynamic shot, and okay playmaking ability but he can't seem to put it together for extended periods to be a truly dominant force. He has the foundations for an elite player but he's missing arguably the most important trait of being able to be a key factor game-in, game out.

His quality of teammates (as the stats people would say) isn't great, as is his ice time, but for a player that is supposed to be as good as people on here claim, someone with his skills and size (especially relative to his peers) should provide better consistency.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

so where's the game?

[Jiggs50]

Based on?

Just my opinion. The type speed and skill he has is freaking rare. Also a pretty competitive guy. I think he'll kill it alongside Scheifele.

[Amish Rake Fighter]

so where's the game?

right there, it's awesome

4-4 game 7 double OT

Edited April 6, 2015 by Amish Rake Fighter

[elvis15]

I don't quite agree that it's skill that Jake needs to show, but rather consistency, you don't score 40+ in the WHL as a 17 year old without skill. I don't want to say it was all useage or because of the injury, but it defiantly seems like it was an off year for Jake. Yet he still managed to be PPG and make the world juniors, even as a role player.

...

To a point, sort of. What we're talking about is a high enough level skill to warrant him being taken where he did. He does have skill, but it's definitely arguable that his physical maturity and skating had as much if not more to do with his scoring success so early as outright skill.

And I know it was his last OHL season, but Tom Sestito scored 42 by virtue of being a big player with good enough hands to be productive around the net. Virtanen has to prove he's more than what could at least be a very effective 3rd liner and I look forward to seeing how he progresses in that.

[nowhereman]

For sure - you don't need a team full of elite players to be an elite team, but a roster with players that play their role well so that they play together as an elite team

You're also right in that a lot can change in a year, but those examples are off IMO

Duclair scored 50 goals a year ago in the Q and Domi had 93 points - a lot of people were high on both guys even a year ago. There were question marks, but the issue surround these two were different from Virtanen in that their skills was never in question - these guys could flat out play. Rather, the question following them were one of character, and Duclair and Domi overcame that (especially Domi, who became London's captain)

The question that follows Virtanen at the moment is different since it's actually about his skill level - people question whether he has that elite skill. Like you say, Virtanen could break out next season and prove everyone wrong, but for Jake, he actually has to prove that he can be elite, unlike Duclair and Domi who had to answer questions about their character

Neither elite skill nor character has ever been a question for Jake. Quite the opposite; he's got all the tools. It's his hockey IQ and consistency that has always been debated.

IMO, his shoulder surgery and the lack of a proper training regiment/training camp was a bigger setback than the Canucks anticipated. Or maybe they're more patient than the folks at CDC and aren't worrying (the more likely answer). I think he'll press the reset button in the summer and bounce back next year.

Edited April 6, 2015 by nowhereman

[Odd.]

lul at those that say he cant pass for ****

hes got 5 assists in 6gp in playoffs

14 pims in just 6 games.

powerforward baby..

Edited April 6, 2015 by TheOddCanuckling

[messier's_elbow]

If Jake has a big game 7 all the complaining will stop. If not he goes to Utica so either way it's not a bad situation.

[McBackup]

lul at those that say he cant pass for ****

hes got 5 assists in 6gp in playoffs

14 pims in just 6 games.

powerforward baby..

This. I think part of the reason for his slower production this year is he's tried to be a more complete, team oriented player. We know he can put the puck in the net, but his assist totals are much higher this year. I'm really not worried about his numbers.

[DeNiro]

I'm hoping for a Kootenay win so that Jake can go to Utica.

Who knows how long we'll have Green before he gets poached. I'd like to get asmany prospects on the farm as possible and take advantage of the good thing they've got going on there now.

[ken kaniff]

If im not mistaken, jake played LW last year. This year he has switched to RW, in the games i have seen. That could be a big difference if true. Different shooting angles and and and wind resistance and the slope of the the earth with the gravity and black holes.

[JamesB]

Neither elite skill nor character has ever been a question for Jake. Quite the opposite; he's got all the tools. It's his hockey IQ and consistency that has always been debated.

IMO, his shoulder surgery and the lack of a proper training regiment/training camp was a bigger setback than the Canucks anticipated. Or maybe they're more patient than the folks at CDC and aren't worrying (the more likely answer). I think he'll press the reset button in the summer and bounce back next year.

This. I think part of the reason for his slower production this year is he's tried to be a more complete, team oriented player. We know he can put the puck in the net, but his assist totals are much higher this year. I'm really not worried about his numbers.

These are optimistic assessments of Jake's situation. I hope they are right. We know Jake has several important characteristics:

1. He is an excellent skater -- rated #1 at last year pre-draft combine.

2. He has an excellent shot -- rated among the best in the WHL.

3. He already has NHL size and strength,

4. He plays with high intensity and plays a physical game.

So why wasn't he one of the top scorers in the WHL this year? His point production was only slightly higher than last year on a PPG basis and his goal production was lower.

Shoulder surgery is unlikely to be the reason as he tailed off at the end of the season. Maybe some other injury was bothering him. Or maybe his shoulder was bothering him again.

I also don't buy the bad coaching or unfavorable coaching decision argument. He has spent plenty of time on the first line with Tambellini and still has not done as well as expected.

My fear is that his impressive goal scoring the previous year were due in part to skilled linemates who could set him. WIth his shot and speed he could score a lot just be a shooter on that line. But that will not make a top 6 forward in the NHL.

With his talent it is hard to see him being anything less than a solid 3rd liner. But if that is all he turns out to be it will be disappointing as the Canucks could have taken Nylander who is having a pretty good year in the AHL even though he is only 18. Nylander looks very likely to be a good top 6 player, maybe a top line center.

Let's hope Jake lights things up next year.

[Mr.53]

So if Calgary loses, does Jake get to play in Utica/Vancouver. (I doubt the latter unless injures are rampant)

[Bobby_Lu1ngo]

Ya its ridiculous, give the kid a couple years. Not all picks are slam dunks. If he turns around and gets 12 points in 5 games next series what will most of the people be saying then.

Lets give our prospects the time to grow

The only thing I can think of is their is a lot of fans of the canucks that are passionate and post here but never played ice hockey in their life or never followed nhl growing up.

Especially with the success we had over the past few years hockey in vancouver gained a lot of interest and fans from oreviously non hockey fans.

They haven't seen enough years of hockey to see how a majority of prospects develop. Mckinnons, toews, crosby like players who are ready at 18 are incredibly rare.

Also they haven't seen the difference between junior and pro. Skills that are transferrable to an nhl pace game compared to junior. Flashy players with lota of points are appealing in junior because they are exciting but rarely will that stuff translate to pro.

JAKE has size, speed, skill, shot, hitting ability. Not overly flashy, but effective. Making him much more of a fit in a pro game. He has work to do on puck management and positioning both offensively and defensively but that is teachable stuff. The god given gifts he has are not all teachable aspects but absolutely essential.

Trevor Cox of the tigers had an amazing year offensively but is unlikely to ever make the NHL nevermind produce in the NHL as his skillset is great against 16 -18 year olds. Stat watching is ridiculous for predicting a players future.

[DeNiro]

So if Calgary loses, does Jake get to play in Utica/Vancouver. (I doubt the latter unless injures are rampant)

Yea, he'll go to Utica. He'd be a good fit on their third line.

[uselessstats]

These are optimistic assessments of Jake's situation. I hope they are right. We know Jake has several important characteristics:

1. He is an excellent skater -- rated #1 at last year pre-draft combine.

2. He has an excellent shot -- rated among the best in the WHL.

3. He already has NHL size and strength,

4. He plays with high intensity and plays a physical game.

So why wasn't he one of the top scorers in the WHL this year? His point production was only slightly higher than last year on a PPG basis and his goal production was lower.

Shoulder surgery is unlikely to be the reason as he tailed off at the end of the season. Maybe some other injury was bothering him. Or maybe his shoulder was bothering him again.

I also don't buy the bad coaching or unfavorable coaching decision argument. He has spent plenty of time on the first line with Tambellini and still has not done as well as expected.

My fear is that his impressive goal scoring the previous year were due in part to skilled linemates who could set him. WIth his shot and speed he could score a lot just be a shooter on that line. But that will not make a top 6 forward in the NHL.

With his talent it is hard to see him being anything less than a solid 3rd liner. But if that is all he turns out to be it will be disappointing as the Canucks could have taken Nylander who is having a pretty good year in the AHL even though he is only 18. Nylander looks very likely to be a good top 6 player, maybe a top line center.

Let's hope Jake lights things up next year.

It wasn't skilled line mates. The Hitmen's top scorers last year were Greg Chase and Brady Brassart, neither of whom played with Jake on a regular basis. In fact on Jake's 45 goals that year, Chase assisted on just 1 while Brassart did assist on ~10 but most of these were PP or situational pairings. Like this year Jake was moved all around the line up and had a revolving door of line mates but rarely the top line. That should quell your fears that his production was "driven" by other, more talented players. It absolutely was not.