stawns Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 18 minutes ago, ghjffbali said: Keep wearing the rose colored glasses and not even read the whole post. I never said he was a bust gone beyond the point of no return, I pointed out all of the excuses people are making for him and how they are false. It's better to acknowledge the problem so you can fix it rather than ignore it and pretend the bad things don't exist. He HASN'T developed much since being drafted. If you want to blindly support players, go ahead but this kid isn't gonna be the player you think he will be if he isn't developed correctly. Calling me a mouth breather when you couldn't even make 1 logical counterargument is laughable. You should consider "mouth breather" a compliment after the crap you spew. Its actually a step up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancanwincup Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, CanucksFanTillDeath1995 said: Terrific post. Tried to argue many of the same things with people here and they continue to bash. It is extremely clear that picking Virtanen at 6 was a marketing ploy and he was nowhere near the BPA at the time. The best thing we can hope for is Virtanen to start to turn things around and maybe become a 2nd line winger, but it doesn't look pretty at this point. I don't think the poster has the same view as you about JV potential or that he was no where near the best player available. He just saying he needs more time and simply not ready. Edited January 1, 2016 by Vancanwincup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Vancanwincup said: I don't think the poster has the same view as you about JV potential or that he was no where near the best player available. He just saying he needs more time and simple not ready. Maybe, Larkin and McCann were the BPAs at six, or even higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiffyPB Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, stawns said: You should consider "mouth breather" a compliment after the crap you spew. Its actually a step up It's crap because you couldn't think of anything else to say, nor were you able to counter any of the points again. The fact you get so butt-hurt over criticism of another man who will probably never read this post is amusing. 7 minutes ago, Vancanwincup said: I don't think the poster has the same view as you about JV potential or that he was no where near the best player available. He just saying he needs more time and simple not ready. Whether he was the best player or not is water under the bridge. 210 players get drafted, there's ALWAYS a chance at least 1 of the 204 after 6th overall is gonna be better as I've said in this thread before. Many people think the same about McCann, Larkin and Pastrnak right now. Edited January 1, 2016 by ghjffbali 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 1 hour ago, stawns said: here's what I don't get........why do you losers actually look for ways to bash Canucks prospects? I actually cheer for them and look for the good over the bad. That's what development means......you look for the good elements and systematically eliminate the bad habits. The pathetic nature of you and all the other obtuse mouth breathers taking over this board is sickening. You really don't get it? Trolls like that get their jollies by annoying people. Coming to a FAN website to say obnoxious things about team members is as good as it gets for clowns like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 1 hour ago, stawns said: You should consider "mouth breather" a compliment after the crap you spew. Its actually a step up why dont you show why you it is think it is a "Crap of Spew" Is it because it doesn't makes your big boy look "real good" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 1 hour ago, stawns said: here's what I don't get........why do you losers actually look for ways to bash Canucks prospects? I actually cheer for them and look for the good over the bad. That's what development means......you look for the good elements and systematically eliminate the bad habits. The pathetic nature of you and all the other obtuse mouth breathers taking over this board is sickening. That's also what being blind to reality means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanky Legs Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 1 hour ago, stawns said: You should consider "mouth breather" a compliment after the crap you spew. Its actually a step up Ha ha clearly you got owned by the bali guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Stoch Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I would've been happy with Jake if we picked him with a 10-15th pick but at 6th overall..... With that said, I still believe he'll be an NHLer but it seems like the next 10 picks after him are developing ahead of him at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstar Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, stawns said: here's what I don't get........why do you losers actually look for ways to bash Canucks prospects? I actually cheer for them and look for the good over the bad. That's what development means......you look for the good elements and systematically eliminate the bad habits. The pathetic nature of you and all the other obtuse mouth breathers taking over this board is sickening. There's this whole nonsensical sentiment going on that people who aren't happy with Canucks players and prospects shouldn't be Canucks fans, or that they are not true Canucks fans because they don't only look for the good in players. There's no issue in cheering for Virtanen, but at the same time, there's no issue in criticizing his play when he's not performing up to speed. This isn't a Nazi regime where blind loyalty is the most important thing. People have different opinions on players, and are willing to speak up when stuff isn't working out. It doesn't mean that they're not Canucks fans. It may actually mean that they're willing to look at the team from a critical standpoint BECAUSE THEY WANT THEM TO WIN, and they have a vested emotional interest in the team, which causes them to not be so happy when management makes stupid decisions. A forum like CDC is one of the best places to discuss these issues, and so this is why it's so prominent on this message board. @ghjffbali you absolutely nailed the Virtanen issue right on point in one post. Well done! Many of the fans here are using the same excuses as they did for Kassian a few years back. For the people who have been on CDC for the past few years, I'm sure you see the exact parallels as well. I'm hoping Virtanen turns it around, but there still hasn't been anything I've seen from his game that has proven it. At least with Kassian, you saw bursts of skill and unbelievable play, but Virtanen hasn't shown much at all. Yes, he gets a nice end to end goal once in a blue moon, but besides that, he hasn't done much at all besides hit players. He's a phenomenal skater, he has a great shot, he's a big and tough guy, but he doesn't seem to have the toolbox to put it all together. Hopefully I'm wrong a few years from now, but it's seeming more and more unlikely. Edited January 1, 2016 by Darkstar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Soldier Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 3 minutes ago, Darkstar said: Hopefully I'm wrong a few years from now, but it's seeming more and more unlikely. Completely disregarding the fact that he's still nineteen years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 3 hours ago, ghjffbali said: Biggest lies/myths supporters use for Virtanen: 1. Forgive his piss poor play because he was 1 month away from being eligible for the 2015 draft. This means absolutely nothing. It would be as utterly stupid as suggesting it is more spectacular for a November born 4th grader to get a B+ than a March born 4th grader to get an A. They're still 4th graders. He is developmentally no different than his other 96 born peers like McCann. The only place this argument was relevant is in comparison to Nick Ritchie, who was ACTUALLY a year older than him and was being drafted in what was his 3rd CHL season. The reason people preferred Virtanen over Ritchie was that Jake scored more goals than him and had 2 more years to show growth, where Ritchie only had 1 more and pretty much you were gonna get what you were seeing from him then. 2. The Hitmen are a bad developmental organization. The Hitmen are a very good organization and had no problems developing Sanheim (a PPG defenseman), Chase, Tambellini, Fazleev and upcoming projected 1st rounder Jake Bean, but somehow because Virtanen was struggling the Hitmen must be very bad. Other notable alumini off the top of my head include Martin Jones, Ryan Getzlaf and Andrew Ladd. But yeah, he Hitmen just suck at developing players. Maybe it's just Jake, not the organization. While the coach did juggle his line (even in ways that puzzled me at times) look at the other side of the equation. Much like Baertschi with WD, Virtanen just doesn't do some of the things the coach wants him to do and thus would continue to lose his trust. Jake is a 1st overall pick. Do you not think it would reflect very poorly on the organization if they didn't use their OWN damn 1st overall crown jewel in as favorable of a position as they could have. The reason his line would get juggled and he would get bounced around because his game at certain times would be THAT poor and frustrating to watch. 3. He should stay up here because he already dominated the WHL. Being a measly PPG player when your own team has a PPG defenseman is laughable. He even had 1st unit PP duties in his draft+1 season that he didn't have before and only managed 21 goals, which leads to the next excuse... 4. He struggled because he was injured. Most people already expected him not to be some 100 point player or a 1.5 PPG player because of injury. I think Nino Niederreiter was the expected production for him (70 points in 55 games, 30ish goals) and even then he failed. But the reason he failed wasn't because his start was that poor. Here is is game log (http://whl.ca/roster/gamebygame/id/26161/ls_season/249). By the end of January he had 37 points in 29 games, which is what was expected from him and there was very little whining about his play at that point. He managed 15 points in the next 21 games to END the season. In February he went on a cold streak and managed only 1 point in 7 games to start the month before recovering with a serious of multi point games the rest of the month. Then in March his game fell off a cliff and he went cold again managing only 4 points in 9 games. Do you honestly believe injury he recovered from 5 MONTHS prior to his poor play down the stretch is even close to being a valid, logical excuse for him? If you do, I got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. 5. It's not about the points, you need guys that can hit because those guys win you playoff games. Nonsense. If all you wanted were guys that just hit and grind, draft them in the middle rounds or acquire them via free agency. Dorsett was acquired and was a former 7th round pick. Hansen was a 9th rounder and Prust was a 3rd rounder. That is where you should find guys like those. A player is drafted that high to score, not to be Dorsett 2.0 with a whopping 2 points in 43 playoff games. Jake to me isn't a failure if all he ends up being is a 20+ goal scorer and a consistent 40+ point player, but that would still disappoint others for a player drafted that high. As for playoffs and key games, he has never been anything more than a passenger in the playoffs (and even here in World Juniors, where he is a returning 19 year old playing in a 19 year old's tournament). Horvat was an established OHL playoff MVP, played in the memorial cup 3 times and even was a key player for us as a ROOKIE against Calgary. Jake has a paltry 23 points in 40 games in Juniors. If that's gonna be your playoff hero, you're not going anywhere. The Bruins and Kings didn't just win because they had a couple big guys, they had big guys who could score key goals. 6. Horvat came around, so will Jake. Horvat does all of the little things right, could play effectively away from the puck and filled a NEED. Over time the little things led to bigger things and his confidence also grew over the course of the season. Jake is extraneous and does not do the little things right at this level. Kenins could do the same without killing the play. Jake clearly needs development. This may seem very harsh but I've seen this movie before. Keeping him here is the same mistake the Islanders made with Niederreiter (a player like Jake who was physically ready for the NHL but not ready in any other facet). The good thing is that Jake is young and with proper development he can live up to his potential and be a solid 30+ goal scorer consistently for us. However, if the Canucks just keep him here as some pathetic crass play to the fans to be like "Look here season ticket holders, you got a local boy 6th overall playing in the NHL at 19. Plz renew" then ultimately it could be a self-fulfilling prophesy for him to become a Raffi Torres type player, which would be a damn shame and a damning indictment roster-wise on what you don't have rather than what you do have. Send him home. #5 are all Ferlund fans in disguise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, stawns said: here's what I don't get........why do you losers actually look for ways to bash Canucks prospects? I actually cheer for them and look for the good over the bad. That's what development means......you look for the good elements and systematically eliminate the bad habits. The pathetic nature of you and all the other obtuse mouth breathers taking over this board is sickening. Actually, development most decidedly does not mean look for the good over the bad. Development should include looking at both good and bad and deciding how the player will become best in the future, maximizing the good and trying to get rid of the bad. If you think the poster you quoted is merely bashing our prospect, perhaps you missed "The good thing is that Jake is young and with proper development he can live up to his potential and be a solid 30+ goal scorer consistently for us." Mindlessly saying ignore what a young prospect needs to improve-which is what you are really asking for when you say "why do you losers look for ways to bash Canucks prospects" and "look for the good over the bad" -is not the way to maximize development. I don't think ignoring the question of whether a young player is developing as expected is going to result in getting rid of or minimizing the weaknesses that all prospects have. Putting one's head in the sand may or may not work well for an ostrich. It is no way to run a hockey team. Edited January 1, 2016 by tyhee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 So I guess we can all just come here and critique the kid for the next 10 years and say how we all know so much more than Benning because he made the wrong pick. Should be fun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCK-EXPRESS Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 23 minutes ago, WonderTwinPowers said: So I guess we can all just come here and critique the kid for the next 10 years and say how we all know so much more than Benning because he made the wrong pick. Should be fun. When you put it that way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 30 minutes ago, tyhee said: Actually, development most decidedly does not mean look for the good over the bad. Development should include looking at both good and bad and deciding how the player will become best in the future, maximizing the good and trying to get rid of the bad. If you think the poster you quoted is merely bashing our prospect, perhaps you missed "The good thing is that Jake is young and with proper development he can live up to his potential and be a solid 30+ goal scorer consistently for us." Mindlessly saying ignore what a young prospect needs to improve-which is what you are really asking for when you say "why do you losers look for ways to bash Canucks prospects" and "look for the good over the bad" -is not the way to maximize development. I don't think ignoring the question of whether a young player is developing as expected is going to result in getting rid of or minimizing the weaknesses that all prospects have. Putting one's head in the sand may or may not work well for an ostrich. It is no way to run a hockey team. I said you develop the good parts of his game and systematically eliminate the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 People were hating on Horvat for his Wjc as well. He'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwags Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 36 minutes ago, WonderTwinPowers said: So I guess we can all just come here and critique the kid for the next 10 years and say how we all know so much more than Benning because he made the wrong pick. Should be fun. Can't wait for the fun to begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Qwags said: Can't wait for the fun to begin. I think the fun has been going on since the draft day JV was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwags Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: I think the fun has been going on since the draft day JV was drafted. True. But if we're critizing him this early, think how bad it's going to be 3-4 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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