aGENT Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 ......seriously? Jeez some people need to temper their expectations when it comes to our prospects. I'd say out of all of those guys, Horvat is the only one with a chance at a first line role. McCann or Horvat could both be our #1 / #2 centres in the mold of the 2011 Bruins. Their play will decide which is playing where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdatb Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 McCann or Horvat could both be our #1 / #2 centres in the mold of the 2011 Bruins. Their play will decide which is playing where. Uhhh... That's hilariously optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Horvat has improved enough already to be a steady 2C at the age of 20...how can it be even optimistic to expect him to get better from here? Cassels can pass like his dad...just watch. McCann can skate, shoot and has the drive....who knows but I'm optimistically watching. Zukenov I know little about...who does? but 2" and 20 Lbs could produce some kind of player... optimism is not a crime... Virtanen will find some chemistry with one of those top 3...that just about a given. Edited September 7, 2015 by Rollieo Del Fuego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 If we could somehow get our hands on an elite playmaking centre, Virt would shine. I agree, but your initial argument was that we should not expect him to be with the Sedins just like we should not expect him to be a 1st line player; however, Henrik is an elite playmaking centre. So I'm not sure what to think now. That being said, I do agree that Kessel has very good offensive awareness that--while it may not be "elite--is extremely underrated. Cringing when he gave teammates wide open shots only for them to be squandered was not a rare occurrence. The only thing keeping him from being considered a high IQ guy is his tendency to try and do too much. I also agree that some people are too optimistic with our prospects, particularly our centre prospects; but we do have our best pool in years--perhaps ever--so there is room for optimism. Like you said, Virt has some great tools, and just needs to bring them together. I doubt he will be like Kassian and never develop his hockey IQ. While he may seem lost in the defensive zone sometimes, he's engaged every single shift, so there's a good likelihood he'll improve in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I agree, but your initial argument was that we should not expect him to be with the Sedins just like we should not expect him to be a 1st line player; however, Henrik is an elite playmaking centre. So I'm not sure what to think now. That being said, I do agree that Kessel has very good offensive awareness that--while it may not be "elite--is extremely underrated. Cringing when he gave teammates wide open shots only for them to be squandered was not a rare occurrence. The only thing keeping him from being considered a high IQ guy is his tendency to try and do too much. I also agree that some people are too optimistic with our prospects, particularly our centre prospects; but we do have our best pool in years--perhaps ever--so there is room for optimism. Like you said, Virt has some great tools, and just needs to bring them together. I doubt he will be like Kassian and never develop his hockey IQ. While he may seem lost in the defensive zone sometimes, he's engaged every single shift, so there's a good likelihood he'll improve in that regard. And the fact he disappears for weeks at a time. Elite players don't go though multiple streches (that last a couple of weeks) where they are completely invisible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Cassels... McCann... Horvat ... Zukenov .... all have potential to become a 1C. LOL yikes. I don't even think Horvat will be a 1C, to think that all four have that potential is lol worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) And the fact he disappears for weeks at a time. Elite players don't go though multiple streches (that last a couple of weeks) where they are completely invisible He was pretty unhappy with the Leafs though. I'm not defending his defensive awareness, compete level, or conditioning. When he is engaged, he makes some amazing plays. He has progressed from being a one-trick pony who just has a quick release. Edited September 7, 2015 by NaveJoseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) And lots of players do the same, doesn't mean they have Elite offensive awareness, it means they have chemistry. Again Corsi is shots on goal Kessel is a shooter, is of course those numbers are going to be better.... Kessel is not just a shooter, he is an excellent playmaker as well. Also not sure where you read that his Corsi numbers are good because they aren't. The Leafs have been continuously outshot when he is on the ice. That is on him as well as his linemates and the fact that he plays for a poor possession team. We will have to see how his advanced stats change with an elite center beside him rather than a mediocre one in Tyler Bozak. Also the whole chemistry argument is overblown. Kessel carried Bozak offensively. I fully expect him to be close the top of the league in points this year. He is absolutely an elite offensive player and I am looking forward to watching the Penguins this year. Neither Kessel nor Crosby has had a linemate as good as they have in each other so its going to be really interesting to watch what they can do offensively. Edited September 7, 2015 by Toews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Uhhh... That's hilariously optimistic. McCann plays like Kesler but with more natural offensive talent. Kesler was/is basically a 1b centre. All that's stopping him is some hard work between now and 'then'. Unless you're referring to Horvat... That kid's a gamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Kessel is not just a shooter, he is an excellent playmaker as well. Also not sure where you read that his Corsi numbers are good because they aren't. The Leafs have been continuously outshot when he is on the ice. That is on him as well as his linemates and the fact that he plays for a poor possession team. We will have to see how his advanced stats change with an elite center beside him rather than a mediocre one in Tyler Bozak. Also the whole chemistry argument is overblown. Kessel carried Bozak offensively. I fully expect him to be close the top of the league in points this year. He is absolutely an elite offensive player and I am looking forward to watching the Penguins this year. Neither Kessel nor Crosby has had a linemate as good as they have in each other so its going to be really interesting to watch what they can do offensively. You guys throw around elite like there are 40 + players in the league that are ELITE. There are only about 10 forwards who i would consider to be elite offensive players, Kessel is not one of them. I hate the advance stats arguement because there are so many of them out there that it literally give anyone a valid opinion. Advance stats will NEVER be the bases for the winner or the Hart, Conn Smyth, Art Ross, ETC so the fact that people treat it like the bible baffles me. IF Kessel is a elite offensive player where has he been the last couple of year? Because he sure hasn't done anything to validate that fact. ELITE players produce no matter how crappy their teammates are if you need proof of this just look at John Tavares or Shea Weber in his earlier years. Finally being an elite player is not a broad statement, it should be reserved for a select group of players who have proven no matter how bad their team is they are still the best player on the ice. Kessel has not proven this, and the fact that people say "Well he made Bozak look better" what else is a first line winger going to do? make him look worse? also do you have multiple Advances stats to back up that statement? because Bozak still hasn't played a complete season without Kessel on his wing and any other sample size is to small to be considered a trend... Before calling Kessel elite ask yourself this question, would you take Kessel over Ovi Crosby Tarasenko Seguin Stamkos Malkin Karlsson ETC because those are some of the names that he would have to be better than to be considered elite.... Edited September 7, 2015 by Gstank29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 @GradySas: #Canucks prospect @Jake_Virtanen's picture from the NHL rookie showcase. http://t.co/tQStUp6MOC Beast. Looks like he's gotten bigger by his body frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 He's a mean looking 19 year old, in the best way though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Uhhh... That's hilariously optimistic. Seriously? Bo is already a 2C and with the improvement he has made its not far fetched at all to think his offensive ceiling could be higher then we once thought and he could be a first 1C. As for Mac, he's has already impressed and it pretty widely recognized to have 1/2C potential. Are you sure you know what optimistic means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Kessel is not just a shooter, he is an excellent playmaker as well. Also not sure where you read that his Corsi numbers are good because they aren't. The Leafs have been continuously outshot when he is on the ice. That is on him as well as his linemates and the fact that he plays for a poor possession team. We will have to see how his advanced stats change with an elite center beside him rather than a mediocre one in Tyler Bozak. Also the whole chemistry argument is overblown. Kessel carried Bozak offensively. I fully expect him to be close the top of the league in points this year. He is absolutely an elite offensive player and I am looking forward to watching the Penguins this year. Neither Kessel nor Crosby has had a linemate as good as they have in each other so its going to be really interesting to watch what they can do offensively.LOL. Kessel hasn't even hit 40 goals in the high scoring east. Elite? Pfft haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Seriously? Bo is already a 2C and with the improvement he has made its not far fetched at all to think his offensive ceiling could be higher then we once thought and he could be a first 1C. As for Mac, he's has already impressed and it pretty widely recognized to have 1/2C potential. Are you sure you know what optimistic means? Bo isn't a 2nd line center yet, lets not get ahead of ourselves. First he has to outplay Sutter for that spot and show that he can provide consistent offense against tough competition. He has taken good strides so far but he's got a ways to go before he can be labelled a second line center. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven pounds soft Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Before calling Kessel elite ask yourself this question, would you take Kessel over Ovi Crosby Tarasenko Seguin Stamkos Malkin Karlsson ETC because those are some of the names that he would have to be better than to be considered elite.... The better question is , why waste yours and our time constructing a short story about why everyone has to agree with your opinion concerning why PHIL KESSEL isn't elite in the god damn JAKE VIRTANEN THREAD? PS no one wants to hear about your "scouting technique ". You have told us your opinion about it in every prospect / draft thread on cdc and to be honest your defensiveness nullifies your credibility. :/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven pounds soft Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Jake has had poor coaching, but he hasn't played for a bad team. The Hitmen made it to the conference finals this year. Then there's this guy... Like you've been told , give it a rest. You're coming off like a slow adult. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven pounds soft Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 McCann plays like Kesler but with more natural offensive talent. Kesler was/is basically a 1b centre. All that's stopping him is some hard work between now and 'then'. Unless you're referring to Horvat... That kid's a gamer. J.R Your posts make this thread almost bearable thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I would like you to show me a 40 goal scoring, first line winger that doesn't have elite offensive awareness/hockey IQ. Are we comparing a 19 year old to 1st line 40 goal scorers? That seems fair. There is a thing called development. He will learn the game, learn to play in the NHL. Some people make it seem like his Hockey IQ will always be what it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdatb Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Seriously? Bo is already a 2C and with the improvement he has made its not far fetched at all to think his offensive ceiling could be higher then we once thought and he could be a first 1C. As for Mac, he's has already impressed and it pretty widely recognized to have 1/2C potential. Are you sure you know what optimistic means? Are you trolling right now? Krejci scored 73 points in his sophomore season, and would be a 1C on most teams - other than the fact Bergeron is the best two way forward in the game. PS Horvat definitely isn't a 2C. Are YOU sure you know what a 2C is? Haha. Edited September 7, 2015 by jdatb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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