TOMapleLaughs Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 So you're saying that they never did that sort of thing prior to Gillis?Yes. Or at least it wasn't jammed down our throats as such. Are you saying that we've always had 'super mega ultra expensive and elite' player development? I'm leaning towards never. Esp. considering our young prospects, (let lone our vets,) can't even stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiffyPB Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 That horrible moment when you realize you don't even have ONE 1st round pick on the roster drafted and developed by this team since 1999. The Canucks under Delorme had 3 drafts (2002 - 1 player, 2007 - 0, 2010- 0) where the total time played for ALL players drafted by us was 2:44 minutes. Yes folks, 3 years of drafting yielded LESS THAN 3 FREAKING MINUTES OF HOCKEY from ALL OF THE PLAYERS drafted and developed by us If you expand the parameters to if anybody from those drafts played any games on any other team you can include Brett Skinner's 11 career games played I can't think of another team as horribly inept as the Canucks in terms of drafting and developing players from 2000-2010. Seriously, it bewilders me how over 4 regimes nobody has cleaned house and fired the clowns responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 That horrible moment when you realize you don't even have ONE 1st round pick on the roster drafted and developed by this team since 1999. The Canucks under Delorme had 3 drafts (2002 - 1 player, 2007 - 0, 2010- 0) where the total time played for ALL players drafted by us was 2:44 minutes. Yes folks, 3 years of drafting yielded LESS THAN 3 FREAKING MINUTES OF HOCKEY from ALL OF THE PLAYERS drafted and developed by us If you expand the parameters to if anybody from those drafts played any games on any other team you can include Brett Skinner's 11 career games played I can't think of another team as horribly inept as the Canucks in terms of drafting and developing players from 2000-2010. Seriously, it bewilders me how over 4 regimes nobody has cleaned house and fired the clowns responsible. Hodgson's in the NHL, Jensen has played and will play this season, Grabner is full time NHL, Schneider is a number one goalie in the NHL, Kesler is/was an allstar, Umberger too. those are all 1st round picks by us since 1999. it sucks that we only have jensen still, but our drafting isn't as bad as you say it was. plus horvat, shinkaruk, mccann, virtanen, and gaunce should all play in the NHL eventually (hopefully for us). plus you ignore all our non-first-round picks (aside from skinner who was a 3rd round pick) these include: Bieksa Edler Hansen Mike Brown raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Because that's when the Canucks started boasting about 'super mega ultra expensive and elite' player development? that kind of ridiculously loose paraphrasing is a waste of time. just quote something, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 that kind of ridiculously loose paraphrasing is a waste of time. just quote something,Posting this was also a waste of time. Instead google something for me to quote. I'm too busy wasting time with paraphrasing. I think you know what I meant though, so why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 That horrible moment when you... Waste your time going through 14 years of drafting, making a list with customized stipulations. Ignoring the great players that no longer play on this team or recognizing the assets we attained by trading them. With the sole purpose of hating on the canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenDrinkin Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 He was no Pat Kane, so not sure why some thought he had so much potential. You need to be great, not good, when you're so small, and there was no real chance of that with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Posting this was also a waste of time. Instead google something for me to quote. I'm too busy wasting time with paraphrasing. I think you know what I meant though, so why bother? What's there to google that resembles what you've said? That's the point. Yeah, I knew what you meant - but as usual it resembles your typical slant moreso than any actual Canucks representation. 'Gillis, Super, expensive, elite, player developement'. Yeah, as I thought - pretty much nothing there. I've heard them talk about west coast travel challenges and attempts to deal with lost sleep, time zone changes, etc, but Super elite development - yeah, whatever. You evidently like drama though - embellish away TOML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 What's there to google that resembles what you've said? That's the point. Yeah, I knew what you meant - but as usual it resembles your typical slant moreso than any actual Canucks representation. 'Gillis, Super, expensive, elite, player developement'. Yeah, as I thought - pretty much nothing there. I've heard them talk about west coast travel challenges and attempts to deal with lost sleep, time zone changes, etc, but Super elite development - yeah, whatever. You evidently like drama though - embellish away TOML. Well there was the Dave Gagne experiment and I know Cody worked with Gary Roberts but I'm pretty sure that was a Cody thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 What's there to google that resembles what you've said? That's the point. Yeah, I knew what you meant - but as usual it resembles your typical slant moreso than any actual Canucks representation. 'Gillis, Super, expensive, elite, player developement'. Yeah, as I thought - pretty much nothing there. I've heard them talk about west coast travel challenges and attempts to deal with lost sleep, time zone changes, etc, but Super elite development - yeah, whatever. You evidently like drama though - embellish away TOML.Are you being ignorant on purpose? Or just don't remember? The Canucks under Gillis and Faq from day one have said through the media, be it radio, tv, print, etc. over and over again that they spend more money on player development than any other team in the league. When I heard this, I started awaiting results. Those results never arrived. I guess i'm better at paying attention to these sort of things. Whatever. The failure in this period in question is why we're at where we're at now, with prospects who are not ready and an ancient core on the way out. Going forward, we're going to need to start actually getting some decent player development here. Starting with just getting them to stay healthy. The recent Horvat injury just piles it on, but the Canucks seem to be remarkably injury-prone up and down the lineup. Considering this was our achilles heel in the 2011 finals, I'd probably focus on solving that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Stoch Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Jordan "steal" Schroeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I feel sad that someone I followed really closely for more than 4 years became a bust... All those wasted time watching AHL stats... even the days of the Moose.... wow what a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 they spend more money on player development than any other team in the league. that's starting to sound representativel TOML - that I remember clearly. the "super, elite" blah blah - not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Are you being ignorant on purpose? Or just don't remember? The Canucks under Gillis and Faq from day one have said through the media, be it radio, tv, print, etc. over and over again that they spend more money on player development than any other team in the league. When I heard this, I started awaiting results. Those results never arrived. I guess i'm better at paying attention to these sort of things. Whatever. The failure in this period in question is why we're at where we're at now, with prospects who are not ready and an ancient core on the way out. Going forward, we're going to need to start actually getting some decent player development here. Starting with just getting them to stay healthy. The recent Horvat injury just piles it on, but the Canucks seem to be remarkably injury-prone up and down the lineup. Considering this was our achilles heel in the 2011 finals, I'd probably focus on solving that problem. Hmm, well one could also think "Just imagine how bad would these guys would have been without the 'super mega ultra expensive and elite player development' they were getting in the Gillis years... I still say that it's a bit harsh on your part to suggest that there was little to no player development during the Gillis years. Was Kesler's development solely due to Burke/Nonis? What about Schneider? I believe the team was doing quite well with Bourdon prior to his untimely demise. Frankly, I don't care if they were all selected by a previous GM. Gillis' picks were given time and opportunity to develop. Hodgson is a fairly good, young player. Yes, he was injured during his time with the Canucks. It was an injury sustained during a juniors game (and I hope we all know the rest of that story). Hodgson also made himself expendable due to various short-comings in his game. Perhaps Gillis should have drafted better, but that's a different discussion from development. Schroeder could also be lumped into the "not the best choice" category rather than he was not properly developed. I like the kid and wish him well, but I'm not sure that I would have picked him if I had the choice. Jensen and Gaunce look like they will be NHL'ers. Maybe they will even reach whatever lofty goals some folks here believe they should be able to achieve. I believe the Canucks (like many NHL teams) have had guys on staff who looked after things like strength and conditioning, long before Gillis was around. You may be correct that not a lot of ballyhoo was made of it, and it may not have been something which was a full time job for the guy. This being said, Roger Takahashi has been the strenght and conditioning coach for the Canucks since 2003. He has a fairly impressive resume: http://canucks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=40101 They also had Peter Twist working for the team as far back as '93. Way back in the 80's the Canucks were one of the first (if not the first) NHL team to get their own jet in an attempt to help the players cope with the travel schedule and help them remain injury free. They also had the hyperbaric chamber experiment which was supposed to help players heal faster. There were mixed results with this. All of that being said, perhaps under the Benning regime there will be a different, and improved approach to issues related to keeping the players healthy which will achieve positive results. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimp C Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 A guy that small needs to be an explosive skater as well as go to the tough areas, backcheck, forecheck, and play with some tenacity in order to be effective. Schroeder does none of those things. Guys like MSL, Gallagher, Hudler, Perreault, Gionta, Theo Fleury, Briere, Zuccarello, Desharnais all have "bite". Schroeder does not. He has that passive type of attitude. Not saying he has to dominate along the boards and defensively, but he needs to get better at those aspects of the game. He has shown improvement but not enough. Hopefully he can correct these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Hmm, well one could also think "Just imagine how bad would these guys would have been without the 'super mega ultra expensive and elite player development' they were getting in the Gillis years... I still say that it's a bit harsh on your part to suggest that there was little to no player development during the Gillis years. Was Kesler's development solely due to Burke/Nonis? What about Schneider? I believe the team was doing quite well with Bourdon prior to his untimely demise. Frankly, I don't care if they were all selected by a previous GM. Gillis' picks were given time and opportunity to develop. Hodgson is a fairly good, young player. Yes, he was injured during his time with the Canucks. It was an injury sustained during a juniors game (and I hope we all know the rest of that story). Hodgson also made himself expendable due to various short-comings in his game. Perhaps Gillis should have drafted better, but that's a different discussion from development. Schroeder could also be lumped into the "not the best choice" category rather than he was not properly developed. I like the kid and wish him well, but I'm not sure that I would have picked him if I had the choice. Jensen and Gaunce look like they will be NHL'ers. Maybe they will even reach whatever lofty goals some folks here believe they should be able to achieve. I believe the Canucks (like many NHL teams) have had guys on staff who looked after things like strength and conditioning, long before Gillis was around. You may be correct that not a lot of ballyhoo was made of it, and it may not have been something which was a full time job for the guy. This being said, Roger Takahashi has been the strenght and conditioning coach for the Canucks since 2003. He has a fairly impressive resume: http://canucks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=40101 They also had Peter Twist working for the team as far back as '93. Way back in the 80's the Canucks were one of the first (if not the first) NHL team to get their own jet in an attempt to help the players cope with the travel schedule and help them remain injury free. They also had the hyperbaric chamber experiment which was supposed to help players heal faster. There were mixed results with this. All of that being said, perhaps under the Benning regime there will be a different, and improved approach to issues related to keeping the players healthy which will achieve positive results. regards, G.I like your posts. A lot more purposeful. I guess i'm frustrated in that other teams clearly have had better development en route to winning cups, so while the Canucks in recent years have been the best they've ever been, it's just not quite good enough. But here's hoping the new regime doesn't discard what's already been done to improve things here and instead adds to it while we quest for our first cup win with the future core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqua59 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Are we still discussing this midget? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Don't forget that every single team in the 1st round passed on both those players. It's easy to wish now that we'd picked those players over a 1st rounder that didn't work out... But the fact is that no one expected Ryan O'Reilly to become the very player he has developed into today. Pretty poor excuse when the Canucks do it regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wshdrvvn Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 So Jordan has been excellent so far here in Des Moines:http://www.iowawild.com/fancentral/releases/?article_id=474 SCHROEDER LEADING THE CHARGE 10/30/2014 10:59 AM - By Tom Witosky www.iowawild.com Follow Tom @toskyAHLWild If Jordon Schroeders first seven games are any indication, two things will be very clear very soon. The Iowa Wild will have found that speedy, sure-shot playmaker the club needs and Schroeder will be on the path back to the National Hockey League after a frustrating injury-marred season last year in Vancouver. Obviously, everyone wants to be at the NHL level, but there are some things I have to work on I know that, the 24-year-old Lakeville, Minnesota native said in a recent interview. I have to change my game to get back there. Schroeder, who was drafted in the first round of 2009 entry draft by Vancouver, has been a bright spot on the Iowa Wild roster during the clubs slow start to the 2014-15 season. Although the AHL team lost its first five of six games, Schroeders speed, his ability to pass and to shoot has made him a key offensive threat for the team. Coach Kurt Kleinendorst has put Schroeder on a scoring line with center Tyler Graovac, now one of the Wilds top prospects and winger Zack Mitchell, a free agent signing with a reputation for scoring. Combined the three players have almost half the total number of points in goals and assists for the entire team. After Wednesdays road match at Milwaukee, Schroder ranks third in scoring in the AHL with three goals and seven assists in seven games. Graovac said that Schroeders ability to pass and to see passing lanes provides the team with some offensive power. Jordan is a special player, Graovac said. He brings a lot of speed on my wing and sees the ice very well. Schroeder also has become the quarterback on one of Iowas power-play lines that includes Graovac. He is always looking for seams and he is always looking for me on the backdoor, which is great, Graovac said. Schroeder signed a two-year, two-way contract in July with Minnesota as an unrestricted free agent following a frustrating final year in Vancouver that included sitting out the first three months of the season with a fractured ankle. After returning to the line-up, Schroeder found it difficult to get playing time and at the end of the season understood that a change likely was necessary. He said Minnesotas decision to sign him made his move a lot easier. It was my hometown, my home state so it was exciting for me and my family, Schroeder, who played collegiately for the Minnesota Gophers, said. It was a little bit of a surprise for me. I had never gone through free agency before so it was different. Kleinendorst said Schroeders lack of ice time in the later part of the season probably hurt his chances to remain with Canucks. Thats tough because now he is in a situation where he is building his game back up as well as his confidence, But make no mistake, Kleinendorst said, Schroeder is a very talented offensive player. He is one of the most skilled players we have had in a while, Kleinedorst said, adding that his skating ability and his skill set for passing and shooting are obvious. Schroeder, fully recovered from his injury, displayed that skill last Saturday in his second goal against Charlotte when he beat Checkers goalie John Muse with a shot from the left face-off circle after Graovac forced a turnover of the puck. Schroeders shot hit high just under the crossbar of the net just past Muses right shoulder. Thats a shooters shot, Kleinendorst said. That is what he can do and do well. But Kleiendorst said that Schroeder needs to improve on playing in front of the net as well as in the corners where his size can be make it difficult. Listed at 5-foot-9 and 180-pounds, Schroeders size could be a handicap, but Kleinendorst doesnt think so. He has to play more in traffic, Kleinendorst said. That is not something necessarily his comfort level, but if he wants to be an NHL player he is going to have to find a way to get into the dirty areas because he does just about everything else well. Schroeder said he views his time with the Iowa Wild as a new beginning that will give him time to develop better consistency on the ice. If his previous two stints in the AHL are any indication, Iowa will benefit substantially from his presence on the ice. Schroder had 37 points in his first two AHL seasons before putting up 44 points in 76 games during the 2011-12 season. He followed that with 33 points in 42 AHL games. I have the speed and skill to play at that level, it is just that I need to fine tune some things, he said. This as a new beginning a fresh start with a new organization and I intend to stay positive and work hard. Schroeder expressed confidence that the teams shaky start is only temporary mostly because of the overall team talent. There have been times when we have played like we definitely can be one of the better teams in the league, but then there were times when we fall off the wagon and dont look good, he said. But that can change he said, just like he intends to change his game to get back to the NHL. Creating chances and creating a spark for the team. That is what is on my mind. To do something each shift gets the team going, Schroeder said. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One big thing to note; he's been playing on the wing and producing at a high clip(centered by the same guy who forced Brendan Gaunce to the wing in Belleville, Tyler Graovac). This was a topic of much discussion when he was with the Canucks. Most of us thought it would be best for him to switch to wing, I guess management at the time didn't see it that way. 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RRypien37 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Good for him for starting out of the gate on fire. Even if he doesn't get called up this year, he is making 100K playing a game he loves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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