Brock Boeser | #6 | RW

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Bobby James]

While I do think management needs to do what is right for the team and long term success for the organization - and if that means trading Boeser then go for it - 

 

He has been really solid since his return from injury. These last few games have been really good for Boeser. When he moves his feet he is so much more impactful and shows he can put up points. 

 

Even if we don't resign him then at least a strong ending to this season may help with his trade value. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I hate to think we trade Brock this off-season just because of his 1-year qualifying year which will cost us. He's still relatively young and has star potential and I'm one of the few on these boards who want to persist with him because I think he's due to break-out and when he does he'll be a 30-40 goal scorer.

 

Sure, he's had a bad year, but everyone did under Green. Look at his stats in the last 41 games (for half a season's sake):

 

14 goals 15 assists +1

 

That's good for a 28 goal, 58 point pace.

 

Sure, it's still not worth 7.5M, but you can't give up on a player who is consistently scoring at around a 30 goal pace and room to grow.

 

Mark my words, we trade Brock and he becomes a super-star somewhere else. It's a shame his agent and Benning kept him as an RFA for so long and now have handcuffed the team a bit with this qualifying number but I say you sign him to a 1 year deal then get him on a cheaper deal (unless he blows up for 30+ goals next year which is certainly possible).

 

I agree we need a top right handed defenceman and one of our young forwards makes sense for a trade though. Personally as good as Garland has been, I think Garland really has a ceiling as a 20 goal scorer skill-wise whereas Brock has a much higher chance of breaking that.

[Boudrias]

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I hate to think we trade Brock this off-season just because of his 1-year qualifying year which will cost us. He's still relatively young and has star potential and I'm one of the few on these boards who want to persist with him because I think he's due to break-out and when he does he'll be a 30-40 goal scorer.

 

Sure, he's had a bad year, but everyone did under Green. Look at his stats in the last 41 games (for half a season's sake):

 

14 goals 15 assists +1

 

That's good for a 28 goal, 58 point pace.

 

Sure, it's still not worth 7.5M, but you can't give up on a player who is consistently scoring at around a 30 goal pace and room to grow.

 

Mark my words, we trade Brock and he becomes a super-star somewhere else. It's a shame his agent and Benning kept him as an RFA for so long and now have handcuffed the team a bit with this qualifying number but I say you sign him to a 1 year deal then get him on a cheaper deal (unless he blows up for 30+ goals next year which is certainly possible).

 

I agree we need a top right handed defenceman and one of our young forwards makes sense for a trade though. Personally as good as Garland has been, I think Garland really has a ceiling as a 20 goal scorer skill-wise whereas Brock has a much higher chance of breaking that.

I would not argue with you that there could be a domino effect on retained players versus those that might be moved. You hold out hope for Boeser 'getting it' and yes he is young enough to climb higher in his game. I suspect JR & PA will move either Brock or JT. Moving JT impacts the center position. It could also impact Garland's play as I have really liked the Garland-JT combo. I fall on the trade of JT because of age and potential return to the team. Boeser's situation is more critical because of his contract. I doubt Garland is moved because of lower return.

 

It will be an interesting summer. 

[quattrobaj]

If you look at what JR and PA described how they build their teams.. Boeser does not fit the description.   He is just too slow and in most games this season you wouldn't notice him at all.  I think I talked about about this but for a player that is described as having an elite shot.. he sure doesn't score with it often.  Most of the goals this season from him were from deflections or rebounds.  No way he's worth 7.5mil when Petey has a clearly better shot and pretty much everything else besides maybe board battles.  And Petey's contract is at 7.35mil.  

 

Honestly I'd take a decent draft pick or prospect from another division/eastern team for Brock.  If Brock does well in then good for him.. trade him to an eastern division team and let him have a fresh start.

[The Lock]

8 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I would not argue with you that there could be a domino effect on retained players versus those that might be moved. You hold out hope for Boeser 'getting it' and yes he is young enough to climb higher in his game. I suspect JR & PA will move either Brock or JT. Moving JT impacts the center position. It could also impact Garland's play as I have really liked the Garland-JT combo. I fall on the trade of JT because of age and potential return to the team. Boeser's situation is more critical because of his contract. I doubt Garland is moved because of lower return.

 

It will be an interesting summer. 

I think the problem I have is we've "held out" on a lot of players and prospects over the years. I don't necessarily mean that in a bad way, as certain players it makes sense such as 1st round picks (this could be argued on a case-by-case basis) or players who are clearly developing and showing signs.

 

I think my problem comes more with how much we tend to hold onto assets. We saw our core from 2011 for far too many years afterwards. We held only some prospects until they had no trade value at all. A lot of the time, it seemed more to do with the GM's pride in their work more than it was what's actually good for the team. Just an observation anyway.

 

My hope is that new management at least bucks this trend. JR should have no reason to worry about losing his job so perhaps that'll allow him to come up with some "hot takes" when needed? Who knows really.

[higgyfan]

19 hours ago, quattrobaj said:

If you look at what JR and PA described how they build their teams.. Boeser does not fit the description.   He is just too slow and in most games this season you wouldn't notice him at all.  I think I talked about about this but for a player that is described as having an elite shot.. he sure doesn't score with it often.  Most of the goals this season from him were from deflections or rebounds.  No way he's worth 7.5mil when Petey has a clearly better shot and pretty much everything else besides maybe board battles.  And Petey's contract is at 7.35mil.  

 

Honestly I'd take a decent draft pick or prospect from another division/eastern team for Brock.  If Brock does well in then good for him.. trade him to an eastern division team and let him have a fresh start.

Brock is a sniper, who has had a bad season.  It happens to pro athletes often enough, but not enough to throw them away for nothing.  Of course, he won't be getting a +7m contract with term from the Canucks or any other team.  If he pushes for such a contract, it will be duked out via arbitration; which I believe is a painful experience for all.  With a more appropriate contract, Brock has more value than a lot of fans think.

 

I could see him fitting in well with LA, who's best RW is an aging Dustin Brown(37) heading into free agency this offseason.

 

Brock  for  Kampuri (C-r) + Grans 

 

There are other teams that might want him...Bruins, Pens, Rangers and Devils come to mind.

Edited April 27, 2022 by higgyfan

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

Brock is a sniper, who has had a bad season.  It happens to pro athletes often enough, but not

enough to throw them away for nothing.  Of course, he won't be getting a +7m contract with term from

the Canucks or any other team.  If he pushes for such a contract, it will be duked out via arbitration;

which I believe is a painful experience for all.  With a more appropriate contract, Brock has more

value than a lot of fans think.

 

I could see him fitting in well with LA, who's best RW is an aging Duncan Keith(37) heading into free

agency this offseason.

 

Brock  for  Kampuri (C-r) + Grans 

 

There are other teams that might want him...Bruins, Pens, Rangers and Devils come to mind.

We will sign Brock to a two year (team friendly) deal.  That takes hi to UFA status.  He scores lots and he gets a big next contract from someone.  So I see 2 years at 5.5.  

[higgyfan]

24 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We will sign Brock to a two year (team friendly) deal.  That takes hi to UFA status.  He scores lots and he gets a big next contract from someone.  So I see 2 years at 5.5.  

I don't know that it will be that low, but it won't be near as high as the QO.  I think 2yrs is fair, considering

his poor showing this season.  Still gives him plenty of time to earn his fortune with his contract in

free agency. 

[-AJ-]

Might just be a fluke of sample size, but Boeser is at 50% face off percentage this year (20 for 40), which is pretty impressive for a winger. By far the best numbers of his career. 

[73 Percent]

15 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Brock is a sniper, who has had a bad season.  It happens to pro athletes often enough, but not

enough to throw them away for nothing.  Of course, he won't be getting a +7m contract with term from

the Canucks or any other team.  If he pushes for such a contract, it will be duked out via arbitration;

which I believe is a painful experience for all.  With a more appropriate contract, Brock has more

value than a lot of fans think.

 

I could see him fitting in well with LA, who's best RW is an aging Duncan Keith(37) heading into free

agency this offseason.

 

Brock  for  Kampuri (C-r) + Grans 

 

There are other teams that might want him...Bruins, Pens, Rangers and Devils come to mind.

Wat?

[JM_]

1 hour ago, 73 Percent said:

Wat?

Dustin Brown, Duncan Keith? they are the same guy. 

[higgyfan]

31 minutes ago, JM_ said:

Dustin Brown, Duncan Keith? they are the same guy. 

Yes, very easy to confuse.  As a Canuck fan, I hate them both.

[EternalCanuckFan]

Good to see Boeser get two goals last night, including the OT winner.

 

It's been fun following Boeser's career to date but per the above discussions, I don't think there's any way to deny that his future with the Canucks is a central question in the overall remodeling of the team this summer.

 

As far as I see it, the pros and cons of keeping Boeser are:

• Pros
  • You basically know what you're going to get at this point.  Boeser could still be a guy that breaks 30G despite his lesser production this year.  The rumors about the Canucks being very much in the mix for Kuzmenko is interesting, but even if they sign Kuzmenko, there's no way to know if he'll be able to produce at least as much as Boeser did this year
  • Boeser clearly gets along very well with his teammates
  • The Canucks don't have that many bona fide top-6 wingers in the system.  Despite Boeser's faults, he has an elite shot and he does produce at least at a low-end top-6 level (this season at least)
  • Despite the issues with Boeser's QO this summer, there has been discussion about the Canucks being able to avoid the QO and instead file a team initiated arbitration which could bring the next contract's AAV down, at most to $6.375M (Monday Mailbag: Exploring reverse arbitration with Brock Boeser, and how to fix the Canucks' salary cap situation (canucksarmy.com)).  As such, I can't imagine the Canucks simply not qualifying Boeser and letting him hit UFA.
  • $6.375M might still be a bit high, but I think the team could live with that.  Boeser has generally produced at a rate of around 0.8 PPG over his career with this year being his worst output.  That would equate to about 65 points in 82 games.  $6.375M for 65-points isn't great value but it's not terrible either.  It also doesn't close the door for trading him.
  • Boeser could still re-sign for less than $6.375M but for longer term to give him security.  If there's no trade protection or very limited trade protection, then there's again still the possibility of trading him and this time with contractual certainty which will probably help his value
• Cons
  • Boeser's lack of foot speed has become more obvious over the years.  Obviously it hasn't completely hampered him from producing, but it does make him less able to fully make use of the rest of his skillset.  He's also not very physical despite being a relatively big guy.  The overall picture doesn't seem to mesh with management's long term vision for the on-ice product
  • The team already has several inefficient contracts and if management does decide to keep Miller and possibly even Horvat, then they have to be even more efficient in their application of all remaining funds.  Even if Miller and Horvat are signed at slightly more team friendly deals, they're still going to eat up a lot of cap space.  The Canucks can offset this a bit if they can trade Myers this summer without taking on any or much money in return (or at least using Myers' cap space to receive roster players in return who will help plug holes elsewhere), but that's a big ask considering many thought he was untradeable at the start of the season, and it doesn't really solve their issue with Boeser's cap hit, particularly if he fails to improve his numbers in the next few years

Pros and cons for trading Boeser are:

• Pros
  • Boeser's history of performance should at least provide some good value on the trade market.  The Canucks have holes they need to fill and Boeser may be a good asset to use to address those holes.
  • Cap space savings from trading Boeser will be relatively significant and could be more efficiently applied to address other needs
• Cons
  • We have no clue what the market for Boeser is and the fact that he's had his weakest offensive output this year doesn't help
  • The situation with Boeser's QO makes it difficult to trade him until there's more certainty about his contract status

 

Personally, I'm expecting the Canucks to at least take Boeser to team elected arbitration and for that process to conclude.

 

I believe it was Friedman who insinuated that Pierre Luc Dubois could possibly be shopped this summer.  Hard to imagine the Jets trading Dubois considering they traded Laine for him, but I'm curious if they could have interest in Boeser.  Both are RFAs this summer and both have arbitration rights so both teams would be dealing with uncertainty about these players.

 

The Jets have good overall team speed which might offset Boeser's foot speed issue.  They could run with Scheifele and Wheeler as their #1C and #2C and play Boeser on RW on either of those lines with either Connor or Ehlers completing the line.  That could be a very potent line.  Winnipeg is also much closer to Minnesota, which might be good for Boeser and his family.  Not saying there are any legs to this, but just curious. 

 

Dubois has outproduced Boeser this season but overall their levels of production aren't that far apart.  He's a big, physical forward who can play centre or wing and would add elements to the Canucks top-6 that they have been missing for a long time.  Not 100% sure about Dubois given his fallout in CBJ, and it's also a bit strange that he could be available after only 1 1/2 seasons with the Jets, but he's an intriguing potential add.

[Ballisticsports.]

On 4/18/2022 at 2:16 PM, hammertime said:

I think realistically the picks offered would be very underwhelming.  

I agree with that on a unsigned Brock and why i think the Canucks will sign him to a 3 yr  reasonable contract so they can trade him for something of value

He has work to do to earn $7+ and not only prove it to the Canucks, but every other NHL team besides the Canucks. He has to work on his speed like Bo did (when he knew his short comings), be more engaged and focused instead of making friends and stay healthy and prove he is worthy of elite money (lol who of us wouldn't want 1 yr entry level money). He will be younger than Miller is now when that contract expires and up to him with his commitment how how that next contract and interest will be. The Canucks will still retain the option to trade him without restrictions for 1 more year

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by ba;;isticsports

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I agree with that on a unsigned Brock and why i think the Canucks will sign him to a 3 yr  reasonable contract so they can trade him for something of value

He has work to do to earn $7+ and not only proof it to the Canucks, but every other NHL team besides the Canucks. He has to work on his speed like Bo did (when he knew his short comings), be more engaged and focused instead of making friends and stay healthy and prove he is worthy of elite money (lol who of us wouldn't want 1 yr entry level money). He will be younger than Miller is now when that contract expires and up to him with his commitment how how that next contract and interest will be. The Canucks will still retain the option to trade him without restrictions for 1 more year

 

Maybe we kick the can down the road with this current core (extended core including guys like Bess, Garland, Myers, OEL) for another year?  We go into next season with Miller and Bo as coming UFA’s.  The only guy we sign over the summer is Brock and it’s just his QO for one year.  

[Ballisticsports.]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Maybe we kick the can down the road with this current core (extended core including guys like Bess, Garland, Myers, OEL) for another year?  We go into next season with Miller and Bo as coming UFA’s.  The only guy we sign over the summer is Brock and it’s just his QO for one year.  

I don't believe the Canucks will want the drama and distraction of an unsigned miller myself and we either have him signed or moved before the season starts, how can they make the playoffs next year (they won't trade him at deadline)and lose him for nothing if they can't sign him, for that reason i believe we will have an answer if we can afford to keep Miller this summer and if he is in the plan (term money Miller and management will be talking now already)

Edited May 1, 2022 by ba;;isticsports

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I don't believe the Canucks will want the drama and distraction of an unsigned miller myself and we either have him signed or moved before the season starts, how can they make the playoffs next year (they won't trade him at deadline)and lose him for nothing if they can't sign him, for that reason i believe we will have an answer if we can afford to keep Miller this summer and if he is in the plan (term money Miller and management will be talking now already)

Are we allowed to talk contract with Miller and Bo now, or do we have to wait until they are one year out from UFA status?  Would be great to have certainty about both those two before the draft.  

[hammertime]

On 4/29/2022 at 8:45 AM, EternalCanuckFan said:

Good to see Boeser get two goals last night, including the OT winner.

 

It's been fun following Boeser's career to date but per the above discussions, I don't think there's any way to deny that his future with the Canucks is a central question in the overall remodeling of the team this summer.

 

As far as I see it, the pros and cons of keeping Boeser are:

• Pros
  • You basically know what you're going to get at this point.  Boeser could still be a guy that breaks 30G despite his lesser production this year.  The rumors about the Canucks being very much in the mix for Kuzmenko is interesting, but even if they sign Kuzmenko, there's no way to know if he'll be able to produce at least as much as Boeser did this year
  • Boeser clearly gets along very well with his teammates
  • The Canucks don't have that many bona fide top-6 wingers in the system.  Despite Boeser's faults, he has an elite shot and he does produce at least at a low-end top-6 level (this season at least)
  • Despite the issues with Boeser's QO this summer, there has been discussion about the Canucks being able to avoid the QO and instead file a team initiated arbitration which could bring the next contract's AAV down, at most to $6.375M (Monday Mailbag: Exploring reverse arbitration with Brock Boeser, and how to fix the Canucks' salary cap situation (canucksarmy.com)).  As such, I can't imagine the Canucks simply not qualifying Boeser and letting him hit UFA.
  • $6.375M might still be a bit high, but I think the team could live with that.  Boeser has generally produced at a rate of around 0.8 PPG over his career with this year being his worst output.  That would equate to about 65 points in 82 games.  $6.375M for 65-points isn't great value but it's not terrible either.  It also doesn't close the door for trading him.
  • Boeser could still re-sign for less than $6.375M but for longer term to give him security.  If there's no trade protection or very limited trade protection, then there's again still the possibility of trading him and this time with contractual certainty which will probably help his value
• Cons
  • Boeser's lack of foot speed has become more obvious over the years.  Obviously it hasn't completely hampered him from producing, but it does make him less able to fully make use of the rest of his skillset.  He's also not very physical despite being a relatively big guy.  The overall picture doesn't seem to mesh with management's long term vision for the on-ice product
  • The team already has several inefficient contracts and if management does decide to keep Miller and possibly even Horvat, then they have to be even more efficient in their application of all remaining funds.  Even if Miller and Horvat are signed at slightly more team friendly deals, they're still going to eat up a lot of cap space.  The Canucks can offset this a bit if they can trade Myers this summer without taking on any or much money in return (or at least using Myers' cap space to receive roster players in return who will help plug holes elsewhere), but that's a big ask considering many thought he was untradeable at the start of the season, and it doesn't really solve their issue with Boeser's cap hit, particularly if he fails to improve his numbers in the next few years

Pros and cons for trading Boeser are:

• Pros
  • Boeser's history of performance should at least provide some good value on the trade market.  The Canucks have holes they need to fill and Boeser may be a good asset to use to address those holes.
  • Cap space savings from trading Boeser will be relatively significant and could be more efficiently applied to address other needs
• Cons
  • We have no clue what the market for Boeser is and the fact that he's had his weakest offensive output this year doesn't help
  • The situation with Boeser's QO makes it difficult to trade him until there's more certainty about his contract status

 

Personally, I'm expecting the Canucks to at least take Boeser to team elected arbitration and for that process to conclude.

 

I believe it was Friedman who insinuated that Pierre Luc Dubois could possibly be shopped this summer.  Hard to imagine the Jets trading Dubois considering they traded Laine for him, but I'm curious if they could have interest in Boeser.  Both are RFAs this summer and both have arbitration rights so both teams would be dealing with uncertainty about these players.

 

The Jets have good overall team speed which might offset Boeser's foot speed issue.  They could run with Scheifele and Wheeler as their #1C and #2C and play Boeser on RW on either of those lines with either Connor or Ehlers completing the line.  That could be a very potent line.  Winnipeg is also much closer to Minnesota, which might be good for Boeser and his family.  Not saying there are any legs to this, but just curious. 

 

Dubois has outproduced Boeser this season but overall their levels of production aren't that far apart.  He's a big, physical forward who can play centre or wing and would add elements to the Canucks top-6 that they have been missing for a long time.  Not 100% sure about Dubois given his fallout in CBJ, and it's also a bit strange that he could be available after only 1 1/2 seasons with the Jets, but he's an intriguing potential add.

I think this is a really good post. However I think you missed the biggest pro/con. We can talk about foot speed we can talk about slumps we can talk about career average point pace comparable contracts bla bla etc till were blue in the face. 

 

I'm here to talk about the real problem with Brock....... Has anyone ever seen him get mad? You could stand right next to Brock and speed bag Demko. Brock might hug you. I see no emotion in his play no heart. He isn't battling for his ice or for his pucks and he isn't making life hard out there for the opponent. 

 

I have no doubt in my mind that he will be a 30 goal scorer and that's all well and good. My problem is that 20mins of Brock are 20 waaaaay too easy minutes for the other team. Where that leaves me is addition by subtraction. Our team has no room for Brock playing every game like it's an all star game. When he goes into the corner with Crosby he's trying to figure out dinner reservations for after the game. 

 

I have zero time left for Brock. We need to cut out the fat and get harder period.

 

 

 

[hammertime]

59 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I agree with that on a unsigned Brock and why i think the Canucks will sign him to a 3 yr  reasonable contract so they can trade him for something of value

He has work to do to earn $7+ and not only prove it to the Canucks, but every other NHL team besides the Canucks. He has to work on his speed like Bo did (when he knew his short comings), be more engaged and focused instead of making friends and stay healthy and prove he is worthy of elite money (lol who of us wouldn't want 1 yr entry level money). He will be younger than Miller is now when that contract expires and up to him with his commitment how how that next contract and interest will be. The Canucks will still retain the option to trade him without restrictions for 1 more year

 

But why though asset mgmt?? Is it worth it? I can't watch Brock beer league it for another season I just cant. If we can get something great. If not at least if he walks we have 6m capspace to play Miller/Bo.