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On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 10:00 PM, DownUndaCanuck said:

Blame Edler all you want for the bad goals, he was terrible in the later stages of the game, but Willie Desjardins has him playing 27 minutes.

 

Alex Edler is simply not a 25+ minute kind of defenceman. He's best at 23 mins tops. Everyone knows that by now. The more he plays, the sloppier and weaker his defence gets. He looked tired on the 2nd goal and bad on the GWG, but brilliant for the first 40 minutes when he was fresh.

 

WD pull your head in and learn how to use your best defenceman. Good coaches know how to get the best out of their players, and burning Eddy out with 27 minutes is not how. AV always knew how many minutes to play the Sedins, Edler and Kesler which is how he took them to the Cup Final. The twins played 18-19 minutes a night, Edler was never more than 23 minutes and together they shined.

 

Tortorella comes in and blows the tyres off with the Sedins playing 20+ minutes and destroying Edler's confidence.

 

Now we've got WD playing the Sedins anywhere between 18 and 21 minutes, and Edler is often getting 25+ minutes a night. We don't have to play him that much. We've got Sbisa and Tryamkin on the left not to mention Hutton capable of more minutes. Tryamkin played 13 minutes, Sbisa played 16:51. Give Tryamkin 15, give Sbisa 18 and suddenly there's 3 minutes off Edler's big night. Give Hutton another of those minutes and we've got Edler down to 23 minutes which is where he's best.

 

It's easy to blame Edler but we have to know what we've got with him and how to use him best. He's not a Norris-trophy, 30 minutes defenceman. He's at his best at 22-24 minutes a night and that's what we need to do with him. Blame WD for this, not Edler.

Excellent points, Down. I was losing my marbles during that game and saw Edler as the primary issue. It wasn't until after the game, when I saw the TOI for everyone and read your post, that it hit home.

 

Edler has had one of his best starts in recent history this season. He has been physical and consistent in all zones. He needs his minutes managed better, and the coach needs to spread the wealth throughout what is becoming a very strong and capable defense.

 

Thanks for the insight.

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lol, not all of Edlers faults occur after he's played 18- 20 min. That's just nonsense. He's tied with Guddy at -9 yet he plays the most minutes on the PP while Guddy plays his mins on the PK. He has a game or 2 where he manages to get a shot through from the point,most of the time his stick breaks or misses the net by a mile. He plays on average 4+ mins more than our other d other than sbisa and Tram.He's proposed by alot o people here to be our best offensive d man while hes tied with Guddy (a stay at home d man) on points.What grinds my gears is all the excuses being thrown around defending Edlers play. Check out Vans team roster and stats page, relate what you see during games and compare our rookies and guys getting less time. We'd win more games with him gone and the games we lost due to any rookie D mistakes... i can accept.

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There aren't too many things going for Edler at the moment, people need to cut him some slack. Look at what's going on around him:

 

1) He's well past his prime (2011 season) and been on the down-swing for a long time. Had his confidence shot dead during the Torts era, came back a bit last season but was over-worked a lot and still had a dreadful season. On the whole, he doesn't have many years of top pairing hockey left if at all, but he'll still be a great 2nd pairing defenceman this/next season for another 2 years

 

2) Tanev has been injured, Edler is playing with a damn rookie. Say what you want about Stecher and how good he's been but that's Edler who has to cover for him and teach him at the same time. Not an easy job to do, you certainly wouldn't play Stecher with Sbisa or Hutton for obvious reasons. This guy is huge in Stecher's development right now and it's not easy for a veteran to finally have a stable partner in Tanev and now have to teach and look after a new rookie in Stecher.

 

3) Edler's getting overworked, I've mentioned this before but will say it again - he's playing 25-27 minutes a night when he should be down at 22-23 minutes. Pull your head in Jarvis and WD, this isn't how you deal with this sort of defenceman and this sort of pack-mentality defence. 

 

4) Our systems and defensive structure this year doesn't lead itself to offence from defencemen. We're not having guys jump into the rush defensively any more. Edler sneaks in from the point every now and then on the PP and Henrik often misses him nowadays, but that's it. None of our defence are racking up assists like on other teams because we're simply not playing that style anymore. Don't expect any of our defencemen to hit 50 points, maybe not even 40 this year with this solid structure of play. 

 

 

Say what you want about Alex but he's still our best defenceman and if we trade him, oh boy this team will really start to suck. We've seen how bad Hutton can be last year when Edler was injured and he was our first pairing D-man - he is simply nowhere near ready to face top offensive lines of the West. Edler goes up against the Kanes and Seguins of the West on a nightly basis and somehow our defence this year hasn't been one of the league's worst but instead pretty respectable. Only recently since Tanev has been injured and Edler has been overworked has our defence fallen through a little bit. Fix the other intangeables, not Edler because he's FAR to difficult to replace.

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4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

There aren't too many things going for Edler at the moment, people need to cut him some slack. Look at what's going on around him:

 

1) He's well past his prime (2011 season) and been on the down-swing for a long time. Had his confidence shot dead during the Torts era, came back a bit last season but was over-worked a lot and still had a dreadful season. On the whole, he doesn't have many years of top pairing hockey left if at all, but he'll still be a great 2nd pairing defenceman this/next season for another 2 years

 

2) Tanev has been injured, Edler is playing with a damn rookie. Say what you want about Stecher and how good he's been but that's Edler who has to cover for him and teach him at the same time. Not an easy job to do, you certainly wouldn't play Stecher with Sbisa or Hutton for obvious reasons. This guy is huge in Stecher's development right now and it's not easy for a veteran to finally have a stable partner in Tanev and now have to teach and look after a new rookie in Stecher.

 

3) Edler's getting overworked, I've mentioned this before but will say it again - he's playing 25-27 minutes a night when he should be down at 22-23 minutes. Pull your head in Jarvis and WD, this isn't how you deal with this sort of defenceman and this sort of pack-mentality defence. 

 

4) Our systems and defensive structure this year doesn't lead itself to offence from defencemen. We're not having guys jump into the rush defensively any more. Edler sneaks in from the point every now and then on the PP and Henrik often misses him nowadays, but that's it. None of our defence are racking up assists like on other teams because we're simply not playing that style anymore. Don't expect any of our defencemen to hit 50 points, maybe not even 40 this year with this solid structure of play. 

 

 

Say what you want about Alex but he's still our best defenceman and if we trade him, oh boy this team will really start to suck. We've seen how bad Hutton can be last year when Edler was injured and he was our first pairing D-man - he is simply nowhere near ready to face top offensive lines of the West. Edler goes up against the Kanes and Seguins of the West on a nightly basis and somehow our defence this year hasn't been one of the league's worst but instead pretty respectable. Only recently since Tanev has been injured and Edler has been overworked has our defence fallen through a little bit. Fix the other intangeables, not Edler because he's FAR to difficult to replace.

At some point a Canuck d-man will be traded or be lost in the expansion draft. Edler-Tanev-Gudbranson-Sbisa are eligible. Hutton and Tryamkin get a bye. Lots of reasons to defend both Edler and Tanev. I suspect one will be traded as they would bring the largest return. IMO it is all about the return whether a prospect or a draft pick or a combination. If the forward group was not as bad as it is it might not happen but that is not the case. By the TDL Benning should have a better idea of how Gudbranson,Sbisa, Hutton and Tryamkin are developing. It likely tells the tale on who is moved Tanev or Edler. I prefer Edler being moved.   

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I found it interesting that Ruff was trying to get Benn away from the Edler matchup. Desjardin was countering by breaking up his pairings. So much of what is happening escapes me watching on TV. When I saw the change ups I initially thought it was long shifts and the 2nd period bench locations. Then I thought Desjardin was actually experimenting. It is easy to focus on Edler's weaknesses but bottom line he has size and can hit, he can move bodies infront of the net, he can throw nice passes up ice and he has a heavy point shot. The number of sticks he breaks each game does have me wondering about some of his mechanics but what do I know?

 

I do believe the increased physicality of the overall d-core is benefiting Edler's game. Perhaps Stecher can teach him how to get one timers off. B) 

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13 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I found it interesting that Ruff was trying to get Benn away from the Edler matchup. Desjardin was countering by breaking up his pairings. So much of what is happening escapes me watching on TV. When I saw the change ups I initially thought it was long shifts and the 2nd period bench locations. Then I thought Desjardin was actually experimenting. It is easy to focus on Edler's weaknesses but bottom line he has size and can hit, he can move bodies infront of the net, he can throw nice passes up ice and he has a heavy point shot. The number of sticks he breaks each game does have me wondering about some of his mechanics but what do I know?

 

I do believe the increased physicality of the overall d-core is benefiting Edler's game. Perhaps Stecher can teach him how to get one timers off. B) 

Very true. Those subtle nuances are missed on the tube. 

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Ladies and gentlemen get ready for 4-6 weeks of this. Edler = this team's most underated player and arguably MVP along with Horvat. Take a Sedin away, we have 2 other lines clicking. Take away Horvat, we're in trouble but still have 2-3 other scoring lines. Take away Tanev, we were alright with Stecher popping up to the top pairing. But take away Edler and suddenly you've got a 4 goal against gong-show.

 

This is going to continue, will get a bit better when Tanev returns but will not be solved. Hutton, Sbisa and Tryamkin are all middle-of-the-pack defencemen and cannot handle top pairing minutes. Edler is the one guy on this team who can.

 

Hopefully some CDCers start eating their words because he's this team's best defenceman, has been for almost a decade and his injury last season was a turning point in the season, lets hope WD can figure out a way to stop the same thing from happening this year.

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1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Ladies and gentlemen get ready for 4-6 weeks of this. Edler = this team's most underated player and arguably MVP along with Horvat. Take a Sedin away, we have 2 other lines clicking. Take away Horvat, we're in trouble but still have 2-3 other scoring lines. Take away Tanev, we were alright with Stecher popping up to the top pairing. But take away Edler and suddenly you've got a 4 goal against gong-show.

 

This is going to continue, will get a bit better when Tanev returns but will not be solved. Hutton, Sbisa and Tryamkin are all middle-of-the-pack defencemen and cannot handle top pairing minutes. Edler is the one guy on this team who can.

 

Hopefully some CDCers start eating their words because he's this team's best defenceman, has been for almost a decade and his injury last season was a turning point in the season, lets hope WD can figure out a way to stop the same thing from happening this year.

I honestly agree. It seems that every year, people hate on Edler, but every year when he (inevitably) gets injured, we falter. It's not a coincidence, people. Edler is a huge part of this team, even if many don't realize it.

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11 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Ladies and gentlemen get ready for 4-6 weeks of this. Edler = this team's most underated player and arguably MVP along with Horvat. Take a Sedin away, we have 2 other lines clicking. Take away Horvat, we're in trouble but still have 2-3 other scoring lines. Take away Tanev, we were alright with Stecher popping up to the top pairing. But take away Edler and suddenly you've got a 4 goal against gong-show.

 

This is going to continue, will get a bit better when Tanev returns but will not be solved. Hutton, Sbisa and Tryamkin are all middle-of-the-pack defencemen and cannot handle top pairing minutes. Edler is the one guy on this team who can.

 

Hopefully some CDCers start eating their words because he's this team's best defenceman, has been for almost a decade and his injury last season was a turning point in the season, lets hope WD can figure out a way to stop the same thing from happening this year.

 

I'm literally amazed at how many people still don't get this. Guy plays more of the hardest minutes, against the best players on the team than anyone else and accordingly gets burned occasionally as he has his limitations but he's still, by far, our best D.

 

Thankfully this year we've got better depth and maybe can weather him being out a bit better but it's not going to help our GAA.

 

So many, so clueless.

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On 11/30/2016 at 1:07 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

Ladies and gentlemen get ready for 4-6 weeks of this. Edler = this team's most underated player and arguably MVP along with Horvat. Take a Sedin away, we have 2 other lines clicking. Take away Horvat, we're in trouble but still have 2-3 other scoring lines. Take away Tanev, we were alright with Stecher popping up to the top pairing. But take away Edler and suddenly you've got a 4 goal against gong-show.

 

This is going to continue, will get a bit better when Tanev returns but will not be solved. Hutton, Sbisa and Tryamkin are all middle-of-the-pack defencemen and cannot handle top pairing minutes. Edler is the one guy on this team who can.

 

Hopefully some CDCers start eating their words because he's this team's best defenceman, has been for almost a decade and his injury last season was a turning point in the season, lets hope WD can figure out a way to stop the same thing from happening this year.

So far not so bad from our backend, without Eddy. Points from the back end are looking good .  defensive mistakes being made but its not like they weren't there before. Bo is a beast. (and as a side note he will be better again next year, he wont allow himself to be satisfied ) Tanev is way better defensively than eddy and stech is putting up points without him. collectively this group doesn't look so bad . Alot better then last year. Benning helped WD figure out how to stop what happened last year by getting stetch and tram over weber and bart. Hoping to see a full healthy d in 4-6 weeks ,will make easier on the team as a whole. This could be a blessing in disguise, maybe WD will see what hes got in his D and not overplay eddy so much. then we may see the eddy of old.

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7 hours ago, Dannydog said:

So far not so bad from our backend, without Eddy. Points from the back end are looking good .  defensive mistakes being made but its not like they weren't there before. Bo is a beast. (and as a side note he will be better again next year, he wont allow himself to be satisfied ) Tanev is way better defensively than eddy and stech is putting up points without him. collectively this group doesn't look so bad . Alot better then last year. Benning helped WD figure out how to stop what happened last year by getting stetch and tram over weber and bart. Hoping to see a full healthy d in 4-6 weeks ,will make easier on the team as a whole. This could be a blessing in disguise, maybe WD will see what hes got in his D and not overplay eddy so much. then we may see the eddy of old.

This is exactly it. With Sbisa and Stecher playing a lot now, they're learning and can show that they can play against top defencemen. With that confidence, hopefully the coaches are more willing to play bottom pairings than burn Edler out at 25+ mins a night. We need him down at 22-23 to be successful.

 

This team lacks a true 25+ minute defenceman, lets not pretend like Edler's one of them. He's still our best guy though. When Tanev comes back I hope our defence looks a bit like this:

 

Hutton - Gudbranson

Sbisa - Tanev

Tryamkin - Stecher

 

And when Edler's back it'll be interesting to see where Tanev ends up. Stecher has been IMO our best defenceman all season long, even when Edler and Tanev have been healthy. I'd rather see Stecher on the top pairing playing 20-21 minutes right now which seems like a lot for a rookie, but he's proven that he can log those big minutes without making mistakes but more importantly, playing well right until the end.

 

Edler - Stecher

Hutton - Gudbranson

Sbisa - Tanev

 

With that depth, WD has no excuse to over-play any particular pairing. If there's more PPs, our top pairing gets more minutes naturally. If there's more PKs, our bottom pairing log more minutes. Everyone should be equals in that defensive unit. Sbisa at maybe around 15-18 minutes, Tanev at around 20, Hutton and Gudbranson at around 20-21 tops, Stecher around 20 and Edler no more than 22 minutes.

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Just now, DownUndaCanuck said:

Edler - Stecher

Hutton - Gudbranson

Sbisa - Tanev

 

With that depth, WD has no excuse to over-play any particular pairing. If there's more PPs, our top pairing gets more minutes naturally. If there's more PKs, our bottom pairing log more minutes. Everyone should be equals in that defensive unit. Sbisa at maybe around 15-18 minutes, Tanev at around 20, Hutton and Gudbranson at around 20-21 tops, Stecher around 20 and Edler no more than 22 minutes.

I like this. It looks crazy to have Tanev on the third pairing, but it's not crazy if the minutes are spread evenly. Thinking of it more like three fairly even pairings as opposed to a very distinct hierarchy of pairings helps.

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