Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[kylecanuck]

By all accounts that I remember when he was drafted the plan was two years of seasoning for joulevi. Since then He has stepped up his game from teenagers to men and has contributed better then expected while putting on muscle and mainting speed. 

 

I am really confused though about all this D+2 nonsense... should joulevi stop playing hockey mid season and come back over to play for the canucks, where I think he would be doing just fine by the way. Or does he finish the season he is currently playing in and then come over like was the plan for the last year?? 

 

This is a 19 year old kid putting up very solid numbers in a mens league and all I see is crying everywhere. I swear there’s only four voices of reason on this whole damn forum and odds are it isn’t you

[Guile]

22 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

Yeah I thought it might be a good topic of discussion to actually critique is play and try to steer the conversation that way but the bickering continues to dominate.

 

I'm actually a little confused by the complete overreaction to his "healthy scratch". Are people upset at Juolevi or his coach? I know for a fact that they're not watching him play, because I don't see anything to be worried about.

He's wasn't playing as well as he normally does, so coaches decide to give him an enforced rest. Based on your comments on his game today, it was the right thing to do, because it sounds like he had a typical solid game. You're bang on - a healthy scratch of a young player is only a bad thing if they don't learn from it and come back the exact same player as before. 

 

All it shows is that he's set himself up for a fairly high level of expectation from his coaches. When he's not performing at his usual high level, he doesn't play, which obviously results in him coming back a stronger, more motivated player. 

[Jester13]

33 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

Yeah I thought it might be a good topic of discussion to actually critique is play and try to steer the conversation that way but the bickering continues to dominate.

 

I'm actually a little confused by the complete overreaction to his "healthy scratch". Are people upset at Juolevi or his coach? I know for a fact that they're not watching him play, because I don't see anything to be worried about.

Honestly, I think it's your post and others that are doing the overreacting. No one here is saying he's a bust but rather there are causes for concern. Just by someone saying this does not mean they think he's done as a prospect. Even players on the team like Virtanen and Hutton have causes for concern, but that doesn't mean they aren't good prospects and will still likely develop nicely. 

 

OJ is not an infallible prospect that has nothing to work on. 

 

Edit: my mistake, my post was half misdirected to you, as it's also for @kylecanuck. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Jester13

[cyoung]

Such a broken record, taking in absolutely nothing. Let's stop feeding the troll. 

[Camel Toe Drag]

2 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

I think Ellis was an amazing JR player. I got to see him weekly as I was a spitfire ticket holder at the time he was awarded chl player of the year. 

 

His size prevented him from playing his game in the nhl.  

 

I thought Ellis could be vintage Mike green. He's turned out to be a 3-4 on a very good team with a good shot to be a lower end Pp defenseman.

I do agree. I think if Ellis is on any other team he's a legit 2D. His skating, shooting, and defensive play is elite. His size is the big thing holding him back.

 

With all that being said I think we would be very fortunate if Olli turned out to be an Ellis type player. However I think he is a bad comparable if we are doing so just because of his draft spot. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

5 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

I just don't really think when you get the 5th overall you have your eyes set on an Ellis type player. Especially when you consider 4 of the next 5 D taken in the first round are projecting to be way better now. 

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and benning has crushed some drafting since coming here but OJin my.mind has been nothing more than disappointing.

 

I'm not going to sit here like the user formally known as JR and sugar coat it and say that it's fine that he isn't doing well because it's not. 

I think with a 5th overall you hope for a Reilly, expect an Alzner and get disappointed when he turns into Dal Colle.  

In the draft thread I've broke down all the picks 1-6 over the last few years.  Top players a far and few outside the top 2.  They can happen but it's not the average.  

[Vanisleryan]

The last few pages were made more entertaining by pretending you guys were the Reese and Malcolm on Malcolm in the Middle fighting. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

21 minutes ago, Vanisleryan said:

The last few pages were made more entertaining by pretending you guys were the Reese and Malcolm on Malcolm in the Middle fighting. 

Who's Dewey?

[RogersTowell]

Don't get your panties all in a bunch because the guy didn't jump straight to the NHL.  Mattias Ohlund, one of the best D men this franchise has known, took until his D+4 year to break in to the NHL and had worse offensive numbers in the SEL in his three years there than Juolevi has in Liiga in his first year as a pro.  You can look at stats all you want but they aren't completely predictive.  Until this year, Morgan Rielly's numbers weren't that great in the NHL.

 

Worrying that Juolevi might be a bust because he sat a couple of games is silly, but it seems that's what happens on CDC.  The sky is always falling, probably because we get so hyped up on our draft picks when they are shiny new toys.  Juolevi had some very good numbers to start the year and his usage has changed lately for one reason or another.  Maybe it's to work on parts of his game to make him a better player when he gets here.  Maybe it's because the line chemistry on the team requires it right now due to injuries to others.  Maybe he was feeling run down a bit.  I'm quite confident that there's a solid chance that Juolevi will be a core D-man for this club in the future barring anything unusual happening.  The kid has poise and skills.  He's not a one way player and takes care of his defensive responsibilities.  He'd make a good top pairing D-man along with a partner with top end offensive skills.

 

Look what's happened to Hutton this year.  His offense has dried up a lot, but his defense has been better.  He's not quite the liability he once was.   This is a deliberate move by Green to fill in the gaps in Hutton's game, and this is D+6.  I don't expect Hutton to be a complete player for a couple of years.  Stecher's in the same boat but I think he's going to start producing again as this season progresses.  Is Dylan Strome a washout because he can't crack Arizona's line up in his D+3 year?  As a forward he should be able to do that easier than a D.  I think not.  It's a team doing the right thing and developing the players the right way - the same way Winnipeg has been developing.

[bobbyg43]

The development curve may be more normalized for a player comming out of Europe by adding perhaps a year or two more or less. The transition to North American ice is some times a real challenge to overcome for most players.

I think Ollie will be a solid 1-2 pairing D- man .

for the record I did covet Sergachev whom Montreal picked ,an then traded him away.

Hopefully Olie,in 4 years is among the best in the league.

[RogersTowell]

2 minutes ago, bobbyg43 said:

The transition to North American ice is some times a real challenge to overcome for most players.

Fortunately, with Juolevi, we have a player who put in his time in the OHL on NA ice and NA play style.

[alfstonker]

Ironically if Demko had played like like Bachman in that game we would all be changing our underwear.  Brilliant performance.

[ilduce39]

18 hours ago, Jester13 said:

But wasn't the report that the coaches felt like he needed a physical (I. E. Back from the wjc) and mental rest? 

 

My personal concern for OJ has nothing to do with his physical or hockey ability (his IQ is top-notch) but rather his mental perspective, and I think it's a fair concern. 

 

It's great to hear outright recently that he is finding games tough now and that he's welcoming it, because he has often in the past made it seem like he's too good for the competition - even tho he hasn't been proving it and outperforming his peers in the leagues he's played in (he's been good, but not too good).

 

Imo he needs tough competition and a good dose of some humble pie. My hope is that he squashes my concern after being a healthy scratch, especially considering how young he still is with plenty of time to grow his mental game.

I hear you - for whatever reason he didn’t add his point totals last year in London and it had some people clutching their purses.  I read different stuff about how he was still growing even though the points didn’t improve but who knows. I know hfboards were crapping all over him but that place is a cesspit.  Coupled with a disaster for Finland in the WJC it felt like a plateau even though all I heard were positive reviews from the experts.  

 

That said, I’ve thought this year he’s been great.  He’s on some weight and the news about him going overseas to play pro was awesome.  I think the reviews about his camp were hugely overblown - cerebral players always look slow while they’re figuring it out or in disorganized situations. 

 

I thought he had a great WJC rebound even though he wasn’t named captain - he might come off a bit arrogant at times but he’s certainly not a pouter.  Doesn’t sound like Sami is going easy on him either in Finland.

 

Projecting a bit from my experience with sports - he’s your classic cerebral player.  

 

His biggest asset can also impose an artificial ceiling as he does his role and sticks with it - I’ve seen that with him at the WJC’s - he plays his spot rather than trying to do it all himself.  I’d assume he did the same thing in London.  When he’s unsure - it’s going to slow him down as he puts it together.  

 

He’s not a physical / emotional / rhythm player - he needs a defined role and to be comfortable with his teammates but when he has it he’ll be rock solid.  Doesn’t mean he can’t produce solid offense or play physically - it’s just that those things follow his thinking the game rather than guys who can fly around on natural talent and feel.  

[kylecanuck]

19 hours ago, Jester13 said:

Honestly, I think it's your post and others that are doing the overreacting. No one here is saying he's a bust but rather there are causes for concern. Just by someone saying this does not mean they think he's done as a prospect. Even players on the team like Virtanen and Hutton have causes for concern, but that doesn't mean they aren't good prospects and will still likely develop nicely. 

 

OJ is not an infallible prospect that has nothing to work on. 

 

Edit: my mistake, my post was half misdirected to you, as it's also for @kylecanuck. 

 

 

How is it over reacting to say he is simply on track? I don’t believe that he is perfect and has nothing to work on but everyplayer in the NHL not matter age or experience has things to work on. What im saying is everything is going pretty much exactly as planned for what the experts where saying and what benning was saying when he was drafted. 

 

The second he went over seas I did not believe he would be coming back till the season was over for him. Now we have people in a panic for what I observe as no real reason at all other then other players look shinny that where drafted after him. Sure that’s hard to swallow but I’ll reserve my meltdowns till year two of being on the team. 

 

He is playing great hockey from all updates I’ve read from experts and locals who watch him live. Just be patient, this isnt NHL18 where you can sim through the seasons. 

[Jester13]

32 minutes ago, kylecanuck said:

 

 

How is it over reacting to say he is simply on track? I don’t believe that he is perfect and has nothing to work on but everyplayer in the NHL not matter age or experience has things to work on. What im saying is everything is going pretty much exactly as planned for what the experts where saying and what benning was saying when he was drafted. 

 

The second he went over seas I did not believe he would be coming back till the season was over for him. Now we have people in a panic for what I observe as no real reason at all other then other players look shinny that where drafted after him. Sure that’s hard to swallow but I’ll reserve my meltdowns till year two of being on the team. 

 

He is playing great hockey from all updates I’ve read from experts and locals who watch him live. Just be patient, this isnt NHL18 where you can sim through the seasons. 

The overreaction I was referring to is towards posters who discuss some of the things he needs to work on, i.e. concerns. 

 

It just seems like every time someone tries to talk about things like his ostensible overconfidence or sometimes lackadaisical play, they get hardcore flamed with overreactions. 

 

And, sure, reports are he's been good, but also at times not so good - hence being sat for physical and mental reasons. 

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, RogersTowell said:

Don't get your panties all in a bunch because the guy didn't jump straight to the NHL.  Mattias Ohlund, one of the best D men this franchise has known, took until his D+4 year to break in to the NHL and had worse offensive numbers in the SEL in his three years there than Juolevi has in Liiga in his first year as a pro.  You can look at stats all you want but they aren't completely predictive.  Until this year, Morgan Rielly's numbers weren't that great in the NHL.

 

Worrying that Juolevi might be a bust because he sat a couple of games is silly, but it seems that's what happens on CDC.  The sky is always falling, probably because we get so hyped up on our draft picks when they are shiny new toys.  Juolevi had some very good numbers to start the year and his usage has changed lately for one reason or another.  Maybe it's to work on parts of his game to make him a better player when he gets here.  Maybe it's because the line chemistry on the team requires it right now due to injuries to others.  Maybe he was feeling run down a bit.  I'm quite confident that there's a solid chance that Juolevi will be a core D-man for this club in the future barring anything unusual happening.  The kid has poise and skills.  He's not a one way player and takes care of his defensive responsibilities.  He'd make a good top pairing D-man along with a partner with top end offensive skills.

 

Look what's happened to Hutton this year.  His offense has dried up a lot, but his defense has been better.  He's not quite the liability he once was.   This is a deliberate move by Green to fill in the gaps in Hutton's game, and this is D+6.  I don't expect Hutton to be a complete player for a couple of years.  Stecher's in the same boat but I think he's going to start producing again as this season progresses.  Is Dylan Strome a washout because he can't crack Arizona's line up in his D+3 year?  As a forward he should be able to do that easier than a D.  I think not.  It's a team doing the right thing and developing the players the right way - the same way Winnipeg has been developing.

Good point about Hutton.  He's 24 so I wonder how much more development we're going to get from here but it's clearly happening 191 games into his NHL career.  -21 his first year, -22 his second and only -3 so far this year 

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Good point about Hutton.  He's 24 so I wonder how much more development we're going to get from here but it's clearly happening 191 games into his NHL career.  -21 his first year, -22 his second and only -3 so far this year 

I quote Dale Tallon as saying that a NHL d-man has to play 300 games before you can tell where he will be. Not sure if it was Tallon or not? Happy to wait on Hutton as he works on his game. He has made a pretty obvious shift to play better in his own zone by adding 25 pounds so he can play a bigger physical game. IMHO it is working.  

[kylecanuck]

4 hours ago, Jester13 said:

The overreaction I was referring to is towards posters who discuss some of the things he needs to work on, i.e. concerns. 

 

It just seems like every time someone tries to talk about things like his ostensible overconfidence or sometimes lackadaisical play, they get hardcore flamed with overreactions. 

 

And, sure, reports are he's been good, but also at times not so good - hence being sat for physical and mental reasons. 

Im not flaming anyone or over reacting to anything I dont think.

 

 That’s fair, there have been reports of him playing lackadaisical and I’ve been concerned about that as well. It’s possible he doesn’t even care about hockey but I don’t want to believe that so I don’t. While there are reports of him

taking games off sometimes, he does keep on pushing along and playing good hockey at the same time. there is nothing to be done about how he plays or develops and he is a canucks prospect so i choose to believe it’s maybe just the way he is and everything is gold Jerry, gold. 

 

From my understanding he has been sat for two games after the WJC, then played again. I didn’t see any reports that said anything about mental reasons though.... maybe a link would help on that one?

[Jester13]

56 minutes ago, kylecanuck said:

Im not flaming anyone or over reacting to anything I dont think.

 

 That’s fair, there have been reports of him playing lackadaisical and I’ve been concerned about that as well. It’s possible he doesn’t even care about hockey but I don’t want to believe that so I don’t. While there are reports of him

taking games off sometimes, he does keep on pushing along and playing good hockey at the same time. there is nothing to be done about how he plays or develops and he is a canucks prospect so i choose to believe it’s maybe just the way he is and everything is gold Jerry, gold. 

 

From my understanding he has been sat for two games after the WJC, then played again. I didn’t see any reports that said anything about mental reasons though.... maybe a link would help on that one?

Fair enough. FTR, I liked the pick when it happened and still like it in hindsight. There are some twitter posts with OJ saying the coaches wanted him to have a physical and mental rest a few pages back in this thread, and Sami Salo also is quoted to Rick D that he was a healthy scratch for two games because he wasn't sharp and clear after the wjc.

 

Now, I do always like to give players and coaches, management, etc. the benefit of the doubt and take what they say at face value, but what gets me a little with OJ is that he has shown to have an "I'm better than all these guys" kind of style with junior, training camp, etc.

 

My concern is that he's still of the same mind, and that he tends to not face adversity too well yet. However, with him being scratched and his recent quotes that he's finding the games tough in Liiga, I take that as a good sign that he may be learning to humble himself a little and realize he won't be gifted any ice time. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Jester13

[kylecanuck]

2 hours ago, Jester13 said:

Fair enough. FTR, I liked the pick when it happened and still like it in hindsight. There are some twitter posts with OJ saying the coaches wanted him to have a physical and mental rest a few pages back in this thread, and Sami Salo also is quoted to Rick D that he was a healthy scratch for two games because he wasn't sharp and clear after the wjc.

 

Now, I do always like to give players and coaches, management, etc. the benefit of the doubt and take what they say at face value, but what gets me a little with OJ is that he has shown to have an "I'm better than all these guys" kind of style with junior, training camp, etc.

 

My concern is that he's still of the same mind, and that he tends to not face adversity too well yet. However, with him being scratched and his recent quotes that he's finding the games tough in Liiga, I take that as a good sign that he may be learning to humble himself a little and realize he won't be gifted any ice time. 

I’d never heard the mental rest but have heard about the physical rest that was needed. It is unfortunate to hear but you can find someone criticizing in every prospect on every team if you look hard enough. Joulevi is gettig hit hard by our eyes because he is our prospect, remember there was a reason outside of Druin that sergechave was traded out of

montreal. 

 

 

I think this being benched over on europe is good news to be honest, it may show him that as good as he is he still needs to put in that extra effort. I haven’t watched him too much but stream a few games here and there

and I’ve never seen him look lazy on the ice. I see a lot of Tanev in him to be honest, just smooth and smart but unflashy and easy to overlook