Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[DeNiro]

Bottom line is it’s because this is Juolevi that fans are so critical. If that was any other player that did that after having a serious bout of Covid they would give them a pass. Or at the very least be concerned about the players health.

 

People need to get over the fact that he’s not going to live up to his draft position and treat him like any other player. Don’t pretend like you care about the players and their health next time there’s a Covid outbreak otherwise…

[ilduce39]

Poor guy can’t catch a break.  Hope he bounces back a bit in preseason. 

[CanucksForever2]

Trade him for a 7th round pick.

[Rush17]

5 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

This is what a first round bust looks like…

 

fkn embarrassing man

two back to back Top 5 picks leaving the organization really sucks. I'm glad we are getting value out of guys in the later rounds now. Jim was still training our scouting team how to identify talent back then. He was working with a completely inept scouting staff prior to that point. I can give him a pass on both I suppose with Rathbone emerging. I was honestly pissed knowing we would Juolevi on waivers but after Rathbones strong game today..  you know what I can deal with it. I see the upside on Rathbone now. 

I'm betting LA or CGY claim him if we waive him. My hope is we keep him on as a 7/8 D and get him some reps so we can flip him. I suppose a year in the AHL would be beneficial but I'm pretty confident he wouldn't clear waivers. Some team would give him an extended look at the nhl level.

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, Rush17 said:

two back to back Top 5 picks leaving the organization really sucks. I'm glad we are getting value out of guys in the later rounds now. Jim was still training our scouting team how to identify talent back then. He was working with a completely inept scouting staff prior to that point. I can give him a pass on both I suppose with Rathbone emerging. I was honestly pissed knowing we would Juolevi on waivers but after Rathbones strong game today..  you know what I can deal with it. I see the upside on Rathbone now. 

I'm betting LA or CGY claim him if we waive him. My hope is we keep him on as a 7/8 D and get him some reps so we can flip him. I suppose a year in the AHL would be beneficial but I'm pretty confident he wouldn't clear waivers. Some team would give him an extended look at the nhl level.

Juolevi won’t be on waivers. We can’t afford to lose the depth especially if it’s simply to have Brad Hunt with the big club.

 

With Keeper going down and Hamonic being a question mark we need all the depth we can get.

 

Depth right now:

 

OEL Poolman

Hughes Schenn

Rathbone Myers

 

Juolevi/Hunt

 

Thats 8 defensemen without Hamonic. If Hamonic joins the team Hunt goes to Abby. Better to keep Juolevi as a 7/8 and have him work his way into shape rather than give him away and hurt our depth.

[Rush17]

9 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Juolevi won’t be on waivers. We can’t afford to lose the depth especially if it’s simply to have Brad Hunt with the big club.

 

With Keeper going down and Hamonic being a question mark we need all the depth we can get.

 

Depth right now:

 

OEL Poolman

Hughes Schenn

Rathbone Myers

 

Juolevi/Hunt

 

Thats 8 defensemen without Hamonic. If Hamonic joins the team Hunt goes to Abby. Better to keep Juolevi as a 7/8 and have him work his way into shape rather than give him away and hurt our depth.

Let's hope that's the case. He better play well in the exhibition games he gets or they would be rewarding for poor performance to protect an asset. That would look bad for the message they are trying to send to all the players.

 

If you set a standard if you change the goal post and make exceptions it makes those standards appear flimsy. Jake Virtanen constantly never met expectations and he never grew because be wasn't held accountable. Let's not make this about Jake though he's long gone half way around the world now.

[Dazzle]

22 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Let's hope that's the case. He better play well in the exhibition games he gets or they would be rewarding for poor performance to protect an asset. That would look bad for the message they are trying to send to all the players.

 

If you set a standard if you change the goal post and make exceptions it makes those standards appear flimsy. Jake Virtanen constantly never met expectations and he never grew because be wasn't held accountable. Let's not make this about Jake though he's long gone half way around the world now.

I'm sure he was held accountable, and the problem is, Jake was good enough to crack our roster. He just wasn't good enough to be the elite player we were hoping him to be. That's the difference. I don't blame the Canucks for trying their hardest with Virtanen. Some players just 'don't get it'.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Dazzle

[DeNiro]

21 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Let's hope that's the case. He better play well in the exhibition games he gets or they would be rewarding for poor performance to protect an asset. That would look bad for the message they are trying to send to all the players.

 

If you set a standard if you change the goal post and make exceptions it makes those standards appear flimsy. Jake Virtanen constantly never met expectations and he never grew because be wasn't held accountable. Let's not make this about Jake though he's long gone half way around the world now.

Sure if Hunt or Bowey are head and shoulders better than Juolevi then yes waive him.

 

But if both are just okay then you protect the younger asset every time. Hunt and Bowey will have no problem passing through waivers.

 

This team just doesn’t have the depth on D right now to be throwing young ones away. We need to exhaust every opportunity before giving up on this guy.

 

Maybe bag skates are just his kryptonite and he’ll be fine during games. His steady game and excellent first pass are what this team needs. Maybe Shaw can work with him.

[GoldenAlien]

I'm not sure if people are under the impression that NHL players just walk off the street and onto the ice for their training camps, but they do not. They have to go through extensive medical and fitness testing. Canucks have posted videos of them before, and so have other NHL teams. As a part of it, they conduct VO2 Max tests -- the Sedins used to compete every year over this. It's designed to measure lung capacity and aerobic fitness. You can see details of how they perform the test here, but basically the only way for this test to end is if you physically cannot continue or are experiencing difficulty breathing/ chest pains. You absolutely would have to dig deep and find out what you're capable of. 

 

There's no way that the Canucks, or any NHL team, would let a player step onto the ice unless they've fully cleared every test. The liabilities otherwise are huge. What if Juolevi actually collapsed during the bag skate? The Canucks would be in a world of hurt. This is a training camp, not the Stanley Cup Final. No one is going to risk getting sued over a preseason drill. There are NHL players who come back after heart surgeries, cancer, season long injuries, the protocols set in place are made to ensure their safety. If there was one iota of concern over Juolevi's health, he would be held back from the bag skate. He was not.

 

Of course this doesn't mean his career is over, but it's a stain on his record, as is the case with any player who shows up and performs poorly on day one. This was not Juolevi's first camp with Green, or even his second. People bring up Garland, who was doing this for the first time, but he was in the same group as Juolevi and multiple videos show that he was way ahead during the bag skate. So he got sick afterwards and threw up, he got up and went on his way. He did not go lie down in a corner. You have first timers at camp, you got an 18 year old whose highest level of training is at a Belarusian second tier league (Klimovich), you got a 33 year old who's probably headed to the AHL (Hunt), you got All-Stars who have their roster spots wrapped up, and somehow they all remained vertical after. This is Green's fifth time running Canucks' training camp, and there are usually at least 40 guys at each camp (there are 54 this year). Over 200 players have gotten through this skate without ending up on their backs.

 

And it's highly doubtful that other players took this kindly or just joked around with him. Multiple reporters who were there specifically pointed out the vets were unhappy and told him to get up. Some examples:

Quote

Ultimately, Olli Juolevi may have been the real victim of Thursday’s bag skate. The young defenceman visibly struggled, lagging well behind Garland in his group, and collapsed to the ice several times, lying on his back gasping for breath. It was significant enough that several veterans checked on him, then insisted that he get up off the ice.

Quote

After another one of Travis Green’s famous bag skates, nobody looked more wrecked than Olli Juolevi. Sprawled out on the ice, looking like a lifeless snow angel, the once highly touted defenceman was being yelled at by some of his teammates to get up.

Quote

The veterans were not pleased with Juolevi’s snow angel antics yesterday, and it’s certainly safe to assume the coaching staff and management feel the same way. J.T. Miller and Tyler Myers could both be heard telling Juolevi to get on his feet after the bag skate.

Quote

The real story from the bag skate was Will Lockwood and Nils Höglander’s excellence.

That, or multiple veterans being vocal towards Olli Juolevi about getting up off the ice as he was completely bagged. They didn’t want him to show weakness during the conditioning.

I've been a Juolevi fan from the get go but it's disappointing. It's not about his ability to bag skate. It's about his attitude. He's on a one year, league minimum contract, without a guaranteed spot in the lineup. If he can't prove himself this year, his NHL career is starting to run out of road. Yet his performance this camp, both in the bag skate and by all accounts, in subsequent days, does not suggest a man on a mission. Perhaps he thinks he'll get a spot because he's not waiver exempt and Rathbone is, and maybe he's right, but that's terrible entitlement from a guy who has 23 NHL games to his name.

Edited September 26, 2021 by GoldenAlien

[DeNiro]

Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the traditional fitness testing (V02 max testing) scrapped due to Covid protocols?

 

If Juolevi had gone through that it’s unlikely he would have passed considering he was gassed very early in the bag skate.

 

Im just surprised more reporters aren’t talking about “long COVID” with him. Seems like a pretty logical conclusion. Maybe instead of complaining about fatigue like Sutter he tried to push through it knowing the importance of this training camp for him.

 

Too many people jumping to baseless conclusions about his attitude and character.

[GoldenAlien]

2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the traditional fitness testing (V02 max testing) scrapped due to Covid protocols?

 

If Juolevi had gone through that it’s unlikely he would have passed considering he was gassed very early in the bag skate.

 

Im just surprised more reporters aren’t talking about “long COVID” with him. Seems like a pretty logical conclusion. Maybe instead of complaining about fatigue like Sutter he tried to push through it knowing the importance of this training camp for him.

 

Too many people jumping to baseless conclusions about his attitude and character.

I haven't seen anything suggesting that fitness testing would be scrapped. Again that would be a huge liability issue for NHL teams, to put players on the ice without testing them first. What if they caused injury to a star player with $50M+ left on his contract? The players are allowed to congregate in the locker rooms, work out in the gyms, but not do a test on a bike?  

 

Being gassed early does not mean he was in ill health. I'd be gassed early too, and I've never had Covid nor been in ill health. I'm just not fit enough for a Travis Green training camp, and it seems neither is he. 

 

There's nothing suggesting that Sutter has long Covid either.  From three days ago:

Benning said that centre Brandon Sutter is a question mark, as the veteran pivot is dealing with fatigue. Benning said the fatigue is not believed to be related to Sutter’s bout with COVID-19 last season.

 

Long Covid is not some random illness that shows up half a year after recovery amid intense workouts, and goes away in any situation besides that. Per the CDC, it's persistent symptoms that are noticeable and long lasting after the person's initial recovery.  Juolevi would've had it all last season and this summer if it were true, he wouldn't have been cleared to play NHL games last April/ May like he did.

 

The logical conclusion is not that all Canucks trainers, doctors, management, coaching staff and players have somehow missed his long Covid symptoms, and that his own doctors and trainers either missed it or are helping him hide it. The logical conclusion is that he came to camp unprepared. It is more baseless to speculate he has a health problem when neither he nor anyone from the Canucks organization have ever given a hint of that.

Edited September 26, 2021 by GoldenAlien

[Captain Canuck #12]

I think the most logical conclusion is to admit that we don't have enough information to conclude why he had so much difficulty with the bag skate.

[filthycanuck]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Sure if Hunt or Bowey are head and shoulders better than Juolevi then yes waive him.

 

But if both are just okay then you protect the younger asset every time. Hunt and Bowey will have no problem passing through waivers.

 

This team just doesn’t have the depth on D right now to be throwing young ones away. We need to exhaust every opportunity before giving up on this guy.

 

Maybe bag skates are just his kryptonite and he’ll be fine during games. His steady game and excellent first pass are what this team needs. Maybe Shaw can work with him.

Yup, especially if you can get something for him rather than giving him away for free. I still think Juolevi will be fine. He showed enough last season that hes an NHLer. He played fairly well while Harmonic was out

[filthycanuck]

47 minutes ago, GoldenAlien said:

I'm not sure if people are under the impression that NHL players just walk off the street and onto the ice for their training camps, but they do not. They have to go through extensive medical and fitness testing. Canucks have posted videos of them before, and so have other NHL teams. As a part of it, they conduct VO2 Max tests -- the Sedins used to compete every year over this. It's designed to measure lung capacity and aerobic fitness. You can see details of how they perform the test here, but basically the only way for this test to end is if you physically cannot continue or are experiencing difficulty breathing/ chest pains. You absolutely would have to dig deep and find out what you're capable of. 

 

There's no way that the Canucks, or any NHL team, would let a player step onto the ice unless they've fully cleared every test. The liabilities otherwise are huge. What if Juolevi actually collapsed during the bag skate? The Canucks would be in a world of hurt. This is a training camp, not the Stanley Cup Final. No one is going to risk getting sued over a preseason drill. There are NHL players who come back after heart surgeries, cancer, season long injuries, the protocols set in place are made to ensure their safety. If there was one iota of concern over Juolevi's health, he would be held back from the bag skate. He was not.

 

Of course this doesn't mean his career is over, but it's a stain on his record, as is the case with any player who shows up and performs poorly on day one. This was not Juolevi's first camp with Green, or even his second. People bring up Garland, who was doing this for the first time, but he was in the same group as Juolevi and multiple videos show that he was way ahead during the bag skate. So he got sick afterwards and threw up, he got up and went on his way. He did not go lie down in a corner. You have first timers at camp, you got an 18 year old whose highest level of training is at a Belarusian second tier league (Klimovich), you got a 33 year old who's probably headed to the AHL (Hunt), you got All-Stars who have their roster spots wrapped up, and somehow they all remained vertical after. This is Green's fifth time running Canucks' training camp, and there are usually at least 40 guys at each camp (there are 54 this year). Over 200 players have gotten through this skate without ending up on their backs.

 

And it's highly doubtful that other players took this kindly or just joked around with him. Multiple reporters who were there specifically pointed out the vets were unhappy and told him to get up. Some examples:

I've been a Juolevi fan from the get go but it's disappointing. It's not about his ability to bag skate. It's about his attitude. He's on a one year, league minimum contract, without a guaranteed spot in the lineup. If he can't prove himself this year, his NHL career is starting to run out of road. Yet his performance this camp, both in the bag skate and by all accounts, in subsequent days, does not suggest a man on a mission. Perhaps he thinks he'll get a spot because he's not waiver exempt and Rathbone is, and maybe he's right, but that's terrible entitlement from a guy who has 23 NHL games to his name.

Tell you what though, if Juolevi shows out on the preseason games, that will hold far more weight than a bag skate in training camp.

[GoldenAlien]

2 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

I think the most logical conclusion is to admit that we don't have enough information to conclude why he had so much difficulty with the bag skate.

Not really.  Here are the possible options:

 

A. He has long Covid symptoms that affect his lung capacity, endurance and energy level. He hid these persistent symptoms for the past 6 months, through fitness and medical testing last season, through his entire summer, through this season's fitness and medical testing, and fooled every person in the Canucks organization, many of which have dealt with Covid or Covid patients. He's been able to hide it well enough in NHL games, in subsequent scrimmages after this year's bag skate, and in any gym workouts, just not in a bag skate. 

 

B. He has long Covid symptoms that do not come up at any other time except for bag skates, so no one has been able to detect it.

 

C. He has another illness that does not show up in any other test, workout, game, practice or situation besides bag skates, therefore it has gone undetected.

 

D. He showed up to camp unprepared for a bag skate, even though he knew it was coming.

 

What is the most logical conclusion?

 

2 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

Tell you what though, if Juolevi shows out on the preseason games, that will hold far more weight than a bag skate in training camp.

Sure, like I said, it's not the end of his career. But it is disheartening. You see guys like Lockwood, Rathbone and Gadjovich show up, working hard at every drill, clearly putting in the work to get stronger/ faster over the summer, hungry for any role on the team. You see someone like Hoglander -- who already had a successful rookie season -- crushing it, or guys like Horvat and Boeser, who are already All-Stars, ready to work. Heck, Schenn, who's not exactly the fleetest of foot, put in a good effort to perform well in the skate. To have a guy lying on the ice while vets like Miller and Myers ask him to get up to no avail is just disappointing.

 

The Sedins, in their mid-30s, still came to camp topping everyone at fitness testing, even though they've got their roster spots secured and contracts guaranteed. I guess my point is, that's what you want to see on your team, guys who work their butts off at every aspect of their craft and never take anything for granted.

Edited September 26, 2021 by GoldenAlien

[GB5]

40 minutes ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

I think the most logical conclusion is to admit that we don't have enough information to conclude why he had so much difficulty with the bag skate.

Pretty much, right now it is just the hacks at Canucks Army trying to make this an ongoing saga at training camp because they are too unoriginal to see any other story lines to write about.

[N4ZZY]

Pretty sure that Green's comments on Juolevi is going to be the main story on the radio come Monday morning. 

 

Wonder what's going on with Olli. I know he's had a stretch where he's been injured, and then COVID last year, but what's his excuse this training camp? This isn't his first either, so that makes whatever excuse he might have, look worse. 

 

I hope he picks it up, and that it's just a slump or something. Cause if this is what it's like the rest of the way, he's not going to make it. Might even be among the first group being cut and sent down to the AHL. 

 

[GoldenAlien]

23 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

Pretty much, right now it is just the hacks at Canucks Army trying to make this an ongoing saga at training camp because they are too unoriginal to see any other story lines to write about.

Unfortunately for Juolevi, his head coach agrees with the hacks:

“I don’t think he did himself any favours,” said Green on Saturday about Juolevi’s training camp, particularly in the day one bag skate. “There’s a battle going on for that spot. He’s been through it before, I would have expected him to do better than he did in the skate.”

And Green himself went through Covid last season, so I doubt he'd be unsympathetic if Juolevi wasn't feeling well. The last time I remember him criticizing a player this directly during training camp was... another former top 10 pick who suffice to say, did not pan out.

[mll]

Starts at the 4:10 mark.  Transcript:

 

'Well he didn't do himself any favours, that's for sure.  All 3 of them know that there's a battle for that spot.  He's been through it before, I would have expected him to do better than he did in the skate.  Guys that have done it before are fine doing it.  It's usually harder for guys who haven't done it before.'

 

 

[-AJ-]

27 minutes ago, mll said:

Starts at the 4:10 mark.  Transcript:

 

'Well he didn't do himself any favours, that's for sure.  All 3 of them know that there's a battle for that spot.  He's been through it before, I would have expected him to do better than he did in the skate.  Guys that have done it before are fine doing it.  It's usually harder for guys who haven't done it before.'

 

 

Pretty damning coming from Green himself. Not a good look for Juolevi. Hope he gets working hard very fast because he's already losing the race so far it looks like.