Canucks need a "scorched earth rebuild"....

[kingofsurrey]

The Canucks club whenJB walked into his job......

 

Cracked Foundation......

 

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[Crabcakes]

On ‎29‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 0:59 PM, Chip Kelly said:

I was watching TSN That's Hockey and the guy Dave Poulon said the same thing do they load up in free agents and try to support the Sedins before they decline in another 3 years and wait to truly start rebuilding once the Sedins 14 mil of cap is off the books and Dorsett and Sbisa are gone etc.

 

Or do they admit they are rebuilding and start a hard rebuild after this year and tell the Sedins we are rebuilding.

Couldn't be more wrong!  I know you're quoting TSN this is not personal Chip.

 

I am sick of this horse bleep.  If these "writers" thought about it for more than 30 seconds before making their learned proclamations they might, just might get a little respect from me.

 

It is not about supporting the Sedins.  It's all about developing the youngsters.

 

The Sedins are here to mentor, and develop the kids.  To show them what it takes to be a pro.  So are any and all of the veteran players.

 

BUT, like any good plan there is more than one side to it. 

 

The other side is that the young players will develop on their own by playing in meaningful games.  At least 82 of them.  This means remaining competitive.  The best competition (and development) is to be had in the first round of the playoffs.  The most entertaining round of them all.

 

Development >>> Drafting.....does anybody disagree with this?

[CanadianRugby]

So many homers on here.  Apparently all paid writers, experts, former players, former coaches and GM's are automatically idiots if they don't agree with what Benning is doing. 

[combover]

They are right start with ownership terrible management down through coaching .

[Bruce Boudreau]

5 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Couldn't be more wrong!  I know you're quoting TSN this is not personal Chip.

 

I am sick of this horse bleep.  If these "writers" thought about it for more than 30 seconds before making their learned proclamations they might, just might get a little respect from me.

 

It is not about supporting the Sedins.  It's all about developing the youngsters.

 

The Sedins are here to mentor, and develop the kids.  To show them what it takes to be a pro.  So are any and all of the veteran players.

 

BUT, like any good plan there is more than one side to it. 

 

The other side is that the young players will develop on their own by playing in meaningful games.  At least 82 of them.  This means remaining competitive.  The best competition (and development) is to be had in the first round of the playoffs.  The most entertaining round of them all.

 

Development >>> Drafting.....does anybody disagree with this?

I can understand your side of it of wanting to be competitive and having a shot to win a round each year in the playoffs.

 

But let's look at how realistic that is for now and the future. Are signing UFAs for the short term really going to push the Canucks over the top into the playoffs and becoming contenders?

 

Not really. You have draft and develop this core and then supplement with trades and free agency. The big key to this is what happens after the Sedins contracts are up in 2 years. How much longer do they stay around when the team should be full of players 26 and under.

 

Long term winning wise it is difficult to make the playoffs year after year and still make great draft picks unless you are Detroit.

 

Even they have yet to find the replacements for Datsyuk and Zetterburg when they are both gone and have been mediocre the past 3 seasons because like the Canucks they trying to stay competitive while retooling on the fly.

 

Currently there are only 8 playoff spots in the West. So right now I see all the California teams making the playoffs and then I see Chicago,St.Louis. Nashville, and Dallas all getting in as locks.

 

The last wild card spot will have the Canucks, Flames, Oilers, Jets, Coyotes,Wild, and Avalanche fighting for it.

 

Even with adding an impact free agent or two the Canucks have an uphill battle just to sneak in the first place and trying to catch other teams like Jets,Flames and Oilers who all have better prospect pools than the Canucks right now.

 

I'm just saying if people want the team to be competitve dont' expect to find a Brock Boeser steal each year picking in the late teens or early 20's.

 

The best shot at finding the Sedin's eventual replacements will be hard to do in free agency or trades. It will have to come via the draft and drafting in the top 10 to get a shot at one of the elite players coming up in the next 3-4 drafts.

[Green Building]

3 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

So many homers on here.  Apparently all paid writers, experts, former players, former coaches and GM's are automatically idiots if they don't agree with what Benning is doing. 

No, just the people who don't understand that no GM is perfect. JB's plan is in motion, and if successful, it will appease ownership, fans and players. 

 

Constructive opinions are welcomed here. Make one.

 

 

[NES Canuck]

On ‎29‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 2:58 PM, obee said:

joe  . benning is way out of his league,calgary wnnipeg and oilers all got better, i am tired of benning and his mantra we want to make the play offs and retool on the fly, he just plods along hoping something will fall in his lap,all he has done is bring in mediocre players,his vision is to be in the play offs ,get bounced in the first round and pick around 20 th every year at the draft, this year he had the 5 th pick , he ignores the best player rated at 4 or 5 and takes one rated 7 or 8, now whether OJ becomes a good player or not, benning stated about 6 weeks age there is no D man rated in the top 5 , benning might be good at drafting, that has yet to be proven , but he is a poor example of a GM

Do you work for Sportsnet? Overall negative and uninformed about the Canucks. Amazing how your crystal ball is so clear about how bad all of Bennings decisions have been and your ideas would work perfectly. Funny how the smart you are in the armchair.

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

So many homers on here.  Apparently all paid writers, experts, former players, former coaches and GM's are automatically idiots if they don't agree with what Benning is doing. 

Some don't get that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Some of us don't want to see bottom of the barrel hockey for seven years give or take. Does that make us homers?

[Baggins]

On 6/29/2016 at 0:59 PM, Chip Kelly said:

I was watching TSN That's Hockey and the guy Dave Poulon said the same thing do they load up in free agents and try to support the Sedins before they decline in another 3 years and wait to truly start rebuilding once the Sedins 14 mil of cap is off the books and Dorsett and Sbisa are gone etc.

 

Or do they admit they are rebuilding and start a hard rebuild after this year and tell the Sedins we are rebuilding.

They've been open about rebuilding since they took over. Repeatedly saying "rebuild on the fly". Note the word "rebuild" in there.

[TheGuardian_]

11 hours ago, higgyfan said:

The Canucks were never bottom feeders during Gillis' tenure.

 

Let's see where he gave up draft picks...

 

2008:  4th rounder

2010:  1st, 2nd, 3rd rounders

2011:  2nd

2012:  3rd and 4th

2013:  2nd

That's a lot of picks in 5 drafts!

 

I don't want to diminish what the former gm did as I think he did an excellant job of adding great complimentary players via trade and UFAs.  His $ ball stuff was good as well.  But...when he left the team, there was a near empty prospect pool, 10 NTC + Torts.

 

I really don't think you can compare the mammoth amount of work JB has had to and will continue to do to create a cup contender compared to what Gillis had to do.

 

Appreciate the effort listing the picks dealt.

The years the Nucks were still elite he did a lot like Detroit, trading away the #1's for immediate help, even if the coach didn't always play those player's. Detroit, the model franchise, is in the same boat now as are the Canucks, thats' what happens when the stars remain competitive, the core can't be replaced and drafting in the late to middle rounds.

 

The NTC's haven't been a problem getting rid of really, just management's refusal to take a lesser amount than market value if necessary. The non Hamhuis deal could have been done as Hamhuis was on record saying he was willing to go before any deals were done and Vrbata stated he was open to go anywhere, while the Nucks hinted that he opened his list just a tiny bit.

 

Rather have Tort's than another rookie trying to prove the AHL is as good as the NHL.

 

For a super scout rebuilding through the draft 12 picks is a lot to trade away in two years don't you think?

[LaBamba]

We don't need to scorch the earth, but we also don't need to spend all of our cap on FA's when we have so many waiver eligible players. 

 

Lets be honest with ourselves, are any of these free agents really going to offset the rest of the conferences growth? Even if they met full expectations we have a major hole to climb out of. We don't have the organizational depth to deal with the inevitable injuries you get from playing in the pacific. 

 

Scorch? No, just leave it alone. 

[Salacious Crumb]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Appreciate the effort listing the picks dealt.

The years the Nucks were still elite he did a lot like Detroit, trading away the #1's for immediate help, even if the coach didn't always play those player's. Detroit, the model franchise, is in the same boat now as are the Canucks, thats' what happens when the stars remain competitive, the core can't be replaced and drafting in the late to middle rounds.

 

The NTC's haven't been a problem getting rid of really, just management's refusal to take a lesser amount than market value if necessary. The non Hamhuis deal could have been done as Hamhuis was on record saying he was willing to go before any deals were done and Vrbata stated he was open to go anywhere, while the Nucks hinted that he opened his list just a tiny bit.

 

Rather have Tort's than another rookie trying to prove the AHL is as good as the NHL.

 

For a super scout rebuilding through the draft 12 picks is a lot to trade away in two years don't you think?

I come up with a total 11 picks traded away and 10 coming back since JB was hired.

[Mcfly]

On 6/29/2016 at 2:10 PM, smithers joe said:

bennimng improved his defense when dubois was gone...edmonton had more pieces they could trade off...calgary needed to fix their defense...canucks had several holes to fill...it will probably take longer to fix the canucks then the other 2...benning inherited this team....we are all entitled to our opinions as long as we don't think our opinions are right or better than other people's opinions...

My opinion is way better than your opinion... but that is just my opinion... which I am entitled to. Nyuck Nyuck,

 

 

[Crabcakes]

7 hours ago, Chip Kelly said:

I can understand your side of it of wanting to be competitive and having a shot to win a round each year in the playoffs.

 

But let's look at how realistic that is for now and the future. Are signing UFAs for the short term really going to push the Canucks over the top into the playoffs and becoming contenders?

 

Not really. You have draft and develop this core and then supplement with trades and free agency. The big key to this is what happens after the Sedins contracts are up in 2 years. How much longer do they stay around when the team should be full of players 26 and under.

 

Long term winning wise it is difficult to make the playoffs year after year and still make great draft picks unless you are Detroit.

 

Even they have yet to find the replacements for Datsyuk and Zetterburg when they are both gone and have been mediocre the past 3 seasons because like the Canucks they trying to stay competitive while retooling on the fly.

 

Currently there are only 8 playoff spots in the West. So right now I see all the California teams making the playoffs and then I see Chicago,St.Louis. Nashville, and Dallas all getting in as locks.

 

The last wild card spot will have the Canucks, Flames, Oilers, Jets, Coyotes,Wild, and Avalanche fighting for it.

 

Even with adding an impact free agent or two the Canucks have an uphill battle just to sneak in the first place and trying to catch other teams like Jets,Flames and Oilers who all have better prospect pools than the Canucks right now.

 

I'm just saying if people want the team to be competitve dont' expect to find a Brock Boeser steal each year picking in the late teens or early 20's.

 

The best shot at finding the Sedin's eventual replacements will be hard to do in free agency or trades. It will have to come via the draft and drafting in the top 10 to get a shot at one of the elite players coming up in the next 3-4 drafts.

It's not about what I want.  It's what I see going on with the Canucks.

 

Watching the TSN Free Agent Frenzy and they're talking about supporting the Sedins.  Ugh.  Let's face it.  Competitive means challenging and hopefully making the playoffs.  There will be no cup run until Bo Horvat is at least 25.

[Fred65]

12 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

So many homers on here.  Apparently all paid writers, experts, former players, former coaches and GM's are automatically idiots if they don't agree with what Benning is doing. 

I'd agree about the homers. Poster get carried away with their tunnel vision when it comes to the Canucks, realism is always on the back burner. But these particular comments by some one named Scott Lewis ( who frankly I've searched for his background and can't find any thing  ??? ) are a bit shall we say driven by the flock of sheep he runs with ...is drivel.

 

I counted the number of changes Vcr have made in the last 3 years starting with the Schneider/Horvat move, which was the start of the rebuild, and it's some thing like a 60% change over. I don't think many east of the Lahehead appreciate how much Vcr or how far Vcr is into a rebuild and the pieces they have accumulatedin those three year.

 

Horvat

Baertschi

Virtanen

McCann ( Gudbranson )

Hutton

Demko

Trymakin

Sutter

Sbiza

Granlund

Etem

Dorsett

Markstrom

Gaunce

Biega

Miller

Pedan

Zalewski

Boeser

LaPLante

Rodin

Stecher

 

Not all these players are all stars but that's true of every team,  unless you're Edmonton garnering 1st O/A picks ad nausea

 

This is basically a different team from 3 years ago and the man suggest we RE wipe it out with a scorched earth policy. He missed the obvious and ran with the flock.... Vcr started the turn over three years ago ...   except you ( Mr Lewis) apparently missed it 

 

[Bruce Boudreau]

8 hours ago, Baggins said:

They've been open about rebuilding since they took over. Repeatedly saying "rebuild on the fly". Note the word "rebuild" in there.

So basically they are trying to copy Detroit. Try to make the playoffs each year and find steals with your draft picks.

 

Thing is Detroit might have that steak of not missing the playoffs but the last 3 years they have been a mediocre team at best. I feel the Canucks risk being mediocre too unless they can find a competent replacement for the Sedins on the first line.

 

 

In the meantime the Red Wings have to figure out how to replace Datsyuk and Zetterurg soon too if they ever wanna be legit contenders again like they were 7 years ago.

[The Lock]

There seems to be no love from the media outside of Vancouver even today at free agency. TSN, NHL.com, Sportsnet, all seem to be harping on Vancouver for not just stripping down the team. This is why I don't watch these networks all that much.

 

A lot of people here know what Benning's trying to do: keep the competitive spirit within the team and compete for a playoff spot each year while replenishing our prospect cupboard (that was pretty much full of cobwebs on his arrival). Right now, I think we're doing better than if we had stripped down completely.

 

While I realise some people hate Benning's plan, all I have to say is this: suck it up buttercup! Whine and complain about his plan all you want. It's not going to change a thing.