Season Musings, so Far.

[Matt_T83]

7 minutes ago, Baggins said:

 

Did you actually think a rebuild would be quick and pretty?

 

Either rebuild or tank. There is no other option. The rebuild could have been done WAY better than it has been. However, it was very unlikely that we would be successful at a rebuild after Gillis gutted the organizations assets. What we should have done was accepted the tank and worked to acquire and keep young assets with potential, like Corrado. 

 

Now we have this monstrosity of a half rebuild which is going to lead us to the bottom of the league anyway. If we had accepted the tank after the debacle that was the 2013-2014 NHL season for the Canucks, we could have very well landed one or two top 3 picks in the 2015 and 2016 NHL drafts. By accepting the tank we could have traded all veteran assets for picks and loaded up on prospects. This would create room for our young prospects to play and develop while we tank. 

 

Look at our problem developing young talent: Shinkaruk, McCann, Corrado, Gaunce, Grenier. These are players that need NHL play time to further their development, not being stuck in the minors. Ironically the one player that SHOULD be in the AHL, Jake Virtanen, is getting his NHL play time (albeit lower minutes).

 

We should have traded vets for picks and tanked, given our young players room to grow, and we would be 2 years into a full rebuild with bright spots in sight. Now we are looking at being a bottom feeder for another 4-5 years.

[PhillipBlunt]

7 minutes ago, Matt_T83 said:

 

Either rebuild or tank. There is no other option. The rebuild could have been done WAY better than it has been. However, it was very unlikely that we would be successful at a rebuild after Gillis gutted the organizations assets. What we should have done was accepted the tank and worked to acquire and keep young assets with potential, like Corrado. 

 

Now we have this monstrosity of a half rebuild which is going to lead us to the bottom of the league anyway. If we had accepted the tank after the debacle that was the 2013-2014 NHL season for the Canucks, we could have very well landed one or two top 3 picks in the 2015 and 2016 NHL drafts. By accepting the tank we could have traded all veteran assets for picks and loaded up on prospects. This would create room for our young prospects to play and develop while we tank. 

 

Look at our problem developing young talent: Shinkaruk, McCann, Corrado, Gaunce, Grenier. These are players that need NHL play time to further their development, not being stuck in the minors. Ironically the one player that SHOULD be in the AHL, Jake Virtanen, is getting his NHL play time (albeit lower minutes).

 

We should have traded vets for picks and tanked, given our young players room to grow, and we would be 2 years into a full rebuild with bright spots in sight. Now we are looking at being a bottom feeder for another 4-5 years.

Corrado is blushing.

[EmilyM]

5 minutes ago, Matt_T83 said:

 

Either rebuild or tank. There is no other option. The rebuild could have been done WAY better than it has been. However, it was very unlikely that we would be successful at a rebuild after Gillis gutted the organizations assets. What we should have done was accepted the tank and worked to acquire and keep young assets with potential, like Corrado. 

 

Now we have this monstrosity of a half rebuild which is going to lead us to the bottom of the league anyway. If we had accepted the tank after the debacle that was the 2013-2014 NHL season for the Canucks, we could have very well landed one or two top 3 picks in the 2015 and 2016 NHL drafts. By accepting the tank we could have traded all veteran assets for picks and loaded up on prospects. This would create room for our young prospects to play and develop while we tank. 

 

Look at our problem developing young talent: Shinkaruk, McCann, Corrado, Gaunce, Grenier. These are players that need NHL play time to further their development, not being stuck in the minors. Ironically the one player that SHOULD be in the AHL, Jake Virtanen, is getting his NHL play time (albeit lower minutes).

 

We should have traded vets for picks and tanked, given our young players room to grow, and we would be 2 years into a full rebuild with bright spots in sight. Now we are looking at being a bottom feeder for another 4-5 years.

Everyone says we should have traded vets for picks. Let's face it, the Sedins weren't going to, or couldn't, be moved. So who are these magical vets we could've traded for valuable prospects or picks?
And you list a bunch of prospects that needed NHL time to further development. McCann DID start in the NHL. Didn't help. Shinkaruk started in the AHL. Didn't help. Maybe, just maybe, they are not the knights in shining armor we thought they would be and they were moved for players that have a better chance at contributing at the NHL level (and so far, they have)
There are no guarantees when it comes to the draft either. We finished 28th last season. 28th! That should've guaranteed us one of the big guns in this draft. Heck, even Puljujarvi fell to 4th. But nope, we picked 5th. Not to say Juolevi won't become a great player in his own right, but just goes to show that there are no guarantees.
So, you do the best you can with what you have. And what we had was not a whole lot to work with thanks to the previous administration. The rebuild is going to take time. Take a step back and look at how much has changed in the last couple years with this roster. Look at players like Demko and Boeser waiting in the wings. They aren't going to solve all the problems, but change is coming. Patience.

[MJDDawg]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Still no real scoring threats

23rd in the league for scoring

bottom 5 for gpg average

$6 million Eriksson is looking like $5 million Vrbata

4th worst blue line scoring in the league

Bottom 3 power play

No push back

 

But hey, 4-2-1 right!

 

I still shake my head at this one. After what JB had to go through with Lui and Vrby then get to a point where we finally get some flexibility in cap space, JB goes and signs Eriksson to a six year deal at $6MM. I figured this deal would look bad in three years, once the twins retired or moved to lesser roles. Now it might look bad in only two years.

[-AJ-]

I personally see Horvat as one of the driving forces of the offense this year. Even though Willie sees him as a defensive stalwart, Bo seems to have more determination than anyone else on the team (except maybe Hansen) and he creates a lot of things when it looks as though all hope is lost. He's clearly a motivator for the team offensively.

 

When we were down 3-0 against Carolina and all hope seemed lost, who got us going again?

Bo Horvat.

When the Blues were beating us 1-0 and it looked like no one could beat Allen, who got us going?

Bo Horvat.

When we were down 1-0 against the formidable Ducks, who got us back in the game?

Bo Horvat.

 

This man is clearly the future leader of the team and he knows it. 

[Honky Cat]

33 minutes ago, Matt_T83 said:

 

Either rebuild or tank. There is no other option. The rebuild could have been done WAY better than it has been. However, it was very unlikely that we would be successful at a rebuild after Gillis gutted the organizations assets. What we should have done was accepted the tank and worked to acquire and keep young assets with potential, like Corrado. 

 

Now we have this monstrosity of a half rebuild which is going to lead us to the bottom of the league anyway. If we had accepted the tank after the debacle that was the 2013-2014 NHL season for the Canucks, we could have very well landed one or two top 3 picks in the 2015 and 2016 NHL drafts. By accepting the tank we could have traded all veteran assets for picks and loaded up on prospects. This would create room for our young prospects to play and develop while we tank. 

 

Look at our problem developing young talent: Shinkaruk, McCann, Corrado, Gaunce, Grenier. These are players that need NHL play time to further their development, not being stuck in the minors. Ironically the one player that SHOULD be in the AHL, Jake Virtanen, is getting his NHL play time (albeit lower minutes).

 

We should have traded vets for picks and tanked, given our young players room to grow, and we would be 2 years into a full rebuild with bright spots in sight. Now we are looking at being a bottom feeder for another 4-5 years.

None of these players have proven to be solid NHL'ers,..tweeners at this point...McCann will be one,but even right now,he's over his head in Florida...Etem was placed on waivers by the Ducks today btw.

[I.Am.Ironman]

26 minutes ago, MJDDawg said:

 

I still shake my head at this one. After what JB had to go through with Lui and Vrby then get to a point where we finally get some flexibility in cap space, JB goes and signs Eriksson to a six year deal at $6MM. I figured this deal would look bad in three years, once the twins retired or moved to lesser roles. Now it might look bad in only two years.

As of right now it is looking bad after two weeks.

 

I hope he picks it up

[Sedin Brothers]

1 hour ago, stuman491 said:

I want to be optimistic, but your right.  Its not looking good. I am surprised by the no push back.  For some reason I thought Gudbranson was going to be the magic pill that suddenly made our team stand up for one another.  The Chara effect.  Unfortunately until the roster turns over more we wont see that.  Too bad.

 

And yea.  If this play keeps up that 2 games over .500 isn't going to last long.

No push back? Have you forgotten the first four games??

[riffraff]

You can only hold the fort for so long after you trade Dale Weise.

[riffraff]

3 minutes ago, Sedin Brothers said:

No push back? Have you forgotten the first four games??

No I have not.

 

First Jake was run by bouma then bo was cross checked by steen then Markstrom was run by Larson (the last two in the same game) then carter punched Daniel in the face.  And guess what happened.

 

nothing.

 

still the softest team in the NHL.

[Darius]

They had their window from about 2009-2012, they had one shot and blew it. During that window they expended numerous draft picks to bolster their chances. 

 

Their poor draft record, plus their spent draft picks, during that 4-5 year window is really being felt.  The guys in the 2009 draft are now entering their mid 20s, prime time.  The cupboards were so bare Benning had to go out and get a bunch of guys in their mid 20s.

 

The core from that window is still intact, more or less. They couldnt get it done in their youth, let alone now. To make matters worse the owners want to keep patching the holes in order to make the playoffs.

 

The perfect storm for a sub par team.  I think we need to buckle down and get used to a few bad years coming up.  

 

[kingofsurrey]

3 minutes ago, Darius71 said:

They had their window from about 2009-2012, they had one shot and blew it. During that window they expended numerous draft picks to bolster their chances. 

 

Their poor draft record, plus their spent draft picks, during that 4-5 year window is really being felt.  The guys in the 2009 draft are now entering their mid 20s, prime time.  The cupboards were so bare Benning had to go out and get a bunch of guys in their mid 20s.

 

The core from that window is still intact, more or less. To make matters worse the owners want to keep patching the holes in order to make the playoffs.

 

The perfect storm for a sub par team.  I think we need to buckle down and get used to a few bad years coming up.  

 

Looks like a long year for our club if we can't score goals...

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Still no real scoring threats

23rd in the league for scoring

bottom 5 for gpg average

$6 million Eriksson is looking like $5 million Vrbata

4th worst blue line scoring in the league

Bottom 3 power play

No push back

 

But hey, 4-2-1 right!

 

So what you are saying is you agree with the OP? We do need to improve forward scoring...

[kingofsurrey]

6 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

So what you are saying is you agree with the OP? We do need to improve forward scoring...

 

He is saying we should have signed Cracknell for one season at  700,000 per season instead of Erickson at 6 mil per season for 6 years....

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, Matt_T83 said:

 

Either rebuild or tank. There is no other option. The rebuild could have been done WAY better than it has been. However, it was very unlikely that we would be successful at a rebuild after Gillis gutted the organizations assets. What we should have done was accepted the tank and worked to acquire and keep young assets with potential, like Corrado. 

 

Now we have this monstrosity of a half rebuild which is going to lead us to the bottom of the league anyway. If we had accepted the tank after the debacle that was the 2013-2014 NHL season for the Canucks, we could have very well landed one or two top 3 picks in the 2015 and 2016 NHL drafts. By accepting the tank we could have traded all veteran assets for picks and loaded up on prospects. This would create room for our young prospects to play and develop while we tank. 

 

Look at our problem developing young talent: Shinkaruk, McCann, Corrado, Gaunce, Grenier. These are players that need NHL play time to further their development, not being stuck in the minors. Ironically the one player that SHOULD be in the AHL, Jake Virtanen, is getting his NHL play time (albeit lower minutes).

 

We should have traded vets for picks and tanked, given our young players room to grow, and we would be 2 years into a full rebuild with bright spots in sight. Now we are looking at being a bottom feeder for another 4-5 years.

 

And we'd be seeing worse than we are right now. There is no quick rebuild. When was the last time Colorado was even relevant? Not a team you want to hold up as "how to do it".

 

Btw, McCann got NHL time and didn't impress last year. No points and and 9 minutes a game in Florida so far. Corrado hasn't played a game this season for Toronto, a team that sucks defensively. Shinkaruk is back in the AHL for Calgary. Grenier may well be a career AHL player. Last I checked Gaunce is in the NHL and has higher ice time per game than Mighty McCann. None of the guys you're whining about is our saviour.

 

I will agree Virtanen should be in the AHL though.  It's a better way to develop players than tossing them in the NHL when they're clearly not ready. You know, like we did with the other guys you mentioned.

[stuman491]

3 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Bo's been a beast but needs more support, otherwise teams will now just keep putting 2 guys on him. 

He really has been impressive.  It seems like he has offensive upside as well.  Does he make Baer look better than he actually is?  Would he benefit from having Erickson on his line?

[Dr. Crossbar]

I wonder about the scoring a lot. This has been our Achilles heel for years. 

 

From 2012 to now, three different coaches, different players, two GMs. It just seems like it doesn't matter who we swap out of the roster ... same issue year to year.

 

I get it from the conventional place we're all seeing it from, but I can't help but wonder about other deeper, complex factors. 

 

The one thing I've noticed from year to year the decision making with shots. Since the game has become increasingly faster, the default is to just get the puck to the net. Doesn't matter if it goes in, just get it to the net to create opportunity. 

 

I think there could be a level of complacency at play psychologicaly. Sort of in a way of ... if we get it on the net, it's good enough. Also, if players are taking shots, they're contributing from a role standpoint just not converting. Psychologicaly, your mind can say, hey, I'm not scoring but I am contributing, that's good enough. 

 

It's a really fine line because, yeah, you've got to get shots to the net. But if you're being outshot game to game, you've got to focus on quality shot opportunities over just getting the puck to the net. At some point, no, it's not good enough just to get the shot off, you have to score. And if you're not scoring, there are reasons that impact physical ability and talent.

 

This kind of thing can permeate throughout a team's culture. And I do think there is a certain decision making culture with this team on a psychological level that plays a role in this.

 

The Canucks should be exploring these types of things. We have guys on this team that can score and there are ways to enhance decision making when repeated patterns occur in the game.

 

Just a different perspective. Not saying it's the only perspective just a different one.

 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, stuman491 said:

He really has been impressive.  It seems like he has offensive upside as well.  Does he make Baer look better than he actually is?  Would he benefit from having Erickson on his line?

 

Thats what Ray Ferraro suggested on 1040. He thinks our top 6 should be:

 

Sedin-Sedin-Hansen

Baer-Bo-Eriksson

 

 

[stuman491]

2 hours ago, Sedin Brothers said:

No push back? Have you forgotten the first four games??

I was referring to Teammates sticking up for each other.  I should have clarified.  I loved the effort level and determination of those comeback wins!

[Dr. Crossbar]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Double