Jack Rathbone | #3 | D

[J.I.A.H.N]

Most of are upset on how Podkolzin is being handled in the KHL, yet we have Juolevi and DiPierto doing the exact same thing in Vancouver............to me it is very frustrating...........I can't imagine how it might be for the players

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Why? Justify, in the long term (since we have no immediate prospect of being a playoff team - never mind contender) that it makes sense to invest more time in a player whose best years are long past. And Juolevi is no kid, Juolevi will be 23 in a month, this is his fifth year with this organization. He has played his way out of Utica inti a limbo where he no longer gets to play - never mind be challenged to get better - we have just thrown him on the scrap heap, like Rafferty (last year’s best player in Utica), and like DiPietro - among our best prospects, they remain, unplayed.

You play him in Benn's depth role, not Edler's high minute, hardest usage role.

 

Doing so is far more likely to ruin his confidence than 'invest in him'.

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Edler, himself, wasn’t ‘eased into his role’ - look back to the FACTS, he was dumped into it by injury to Ohlund. It certainly did Edler no harm, in fact, it probably accelerated his development. You don’t develop a player by having him play ‘down’ you develop him by having play ‘up’ a level. Juolevi needs to play, and there is no point in this season in playing a Edler. Nailing Juolevi’s butt to the press box does nothing to develop him, and he is the future, not Edler - we need to be looking at replacing Edler. 
 

One of the reasons this team is mired in mediocrity is that we have realized little or nothing from expiring talents because we did not move them soon enough. We got nothing for the Sedins, precious little for Kesler (then we overpaid the third liner we ultimately got for him - namely Sutter). Burrows and Hansen were both traded too late. Hamhuis was mishandled. Cap mismanagement led to the loss of Tofolli, Tanev, Stetcher, and Leivo.

 

The consequence of trading away draft slots, and waiting too long to divest of aging vets is that you end up with an organization so thin on prospects, that can only ice half a club on its farm team.

 

That Benning is wasting time and assets negotiating with a thirty year old third line winger in Person, is laughable. He is easily replaced by Vesey at a fraction of the cost. Now, cudos to Benning for grabbing Vesey and Boyd - but then negating that by re-signing a soon to be has been in Pearson, is next to absurd. We are in no position to be continuing to fill our team with vastly overpaid third and fourth liners, when in the near future we need every scrap of cap space to sign the supposed core of this team - Demko (done), Pettersson, Hughes, etc.

1. Edler isn't hurt so you're not even comparing the same situation. Again not saying Juolevi shouldn't play but sitting Edler for the rest of the year shows you're not based in reality. Like not at all. You don't just sit your better players for rookies. That doesn't do anybody any good.

 

2. No one said anything about the Sedins or selling players.

 

3. Again, Edler is going nowhere this year (NMC) so don't know what you're talking about again. Half of a farm team? What are you talking about yet again?

 

4. Yet another thinly veiled attack by a Benning hater. This topic has nothing to do with Benning so I don't know what hypothetical BS you're coming up with except for  condemning JB for having a conversation with a player. (Doing so in a Rathbone thread, talking about Juolevi, and referencing Edler, while slandering JB Bravo) The coach picks the team there bud, not JB.

 

Case closed:

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Gawdzukes

[Fred65]

I think Cathode is looking to the future rather than the current season ( if there is to be one ) Currently Vcr is in a black hole and it serves no purpose to play Edler. Better to let the youngster play and judge their  ability for next season. Actually it might help Edler to have a rejuvenating rest. When you think about it with the Covid recovery time for many players there may be a bunch of youngsters getting a shot

Edited April 8, 2021 by Fred65

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

I think Cathode is looking to the future rather than the current season ( if there is to be one ) Currently Vcr is in a black hole and it serves no purpose to play Edler. Better to let the youngster play and judge their  ability for next season. Actually it might help Edler to have a rejuvenating rest. When you think about it with the Covid recovery time for many players there may be a bunch of youngsters getting a shot

 

Sure... Other than playing a bunch of kids WAY over their heads, in situations they're not ready for, ruining their confidence and possibly setting their development back.

 

This entire discussion tells me two things. 

 

1 A lot of you have zero appreciation for how much Edler's play means to this club/how good he still is, even diminished with age .

 

2 A lot of you have zero concept on how to develop kids.

[Fred65]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Sure... Other than playing a bunch of kids WAY over their heads, in situations they're not ready for, ruining their confidence and possibly setting their development back.

 

This entire discussion tells me two things. 

 

1 A lot of you have zero appreciation for how much Edler's play means to this club/how good he still is, even diminished with age .

 

2 A lot of you have zero concept on how to develop kids.

Frankly Edler is one of my favourite player, not quite  an Ohlund protege but pretty close. But much like starting pitchers you just need to give them a break some time. If prospects fail you move on. Think of Rathbone one game and he never returned, that's on management. He's a FA  this summer and I'd  doubt he'll be back. At some stage prospects have to be able to prove themselves or they'll find another club, you can't blame them. These prospects are trying to make a career for themselves and not become slaves on Vcr

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Frankly Edler is one of my favourite player, not quite  an Ohlund protege but pretty close. But much like starting pitchers you just need to give them a break some time. If prospects fail you move on. Think of Rathbone one game and he never returned, that's on management. He's a FA  this summer and I'd  doubt he'll be back. At some stage prospects have to be able to prove themselves or they'll find another club, you can't blame them. These prospects are trying to make a career for themselves and not become slaves on Vcr

Rathbone isn't a FA 

 

I think I'm done here... Going to take Mark Twain's advice...

[Fred65]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Rathbone isn't a FA 

 

I think I'm done here... Going to take Mark Twain's advice...

My mistake The comment was about Rafferty, sorry for the slip up. Of course Rathbone never did play an NHL game, like I said Rafferty did

[Alienhuggyflow]

3 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Frankly Edler is one of my favourite player, not quite  an Ohlund protege but pretty close. But much like starting pitchers you just need to give them a break some time. If prospects fail you move on. Think of Rathbone one game and he never returned, that's on management. He's a FA  this summer and I'd  doubt he'll be back. At some stage prospects have to be able to prove themselves or they'll find another club, you can't blame them. These prospects are trying to make a career for themselves and not become slaves on Vcr

As someone who was a starting pitcher, comparing them to an NHL player is odd.

Starting pitchers put a tremendous amount of strain on their arm the whole process is unnatural and is the reason so many develop injuries and why Tommy John surgery among others injuries are so common. Of course a pitcher throwing a 100+ pitches 85+ MPH need multiple days off at a time.

Not saying hockey players don't need rest but the comparison is just odd considering the amount of stress put on such tiny muscles, ligaments and tendons, compared to the bigger core muscles.

I think OJ in a regular year 82 games no Covid would have been handled differently and been up and down getting lots of games but both Benn and Edler have been healthy and played well and since it's the coaches job to win it is what it is. Next season I think he's on the team and playing regularly. 

[Ray_Cathode]

On 4/6/2021 at 8:01 AM, aGENT said:

I have zero issue with Juolevi playing.  Attempting to force him in to Elder's hard minute role however, is a recipe for disaster.

 

Just like Pettersson was, he will be eased in, in a sheltered role. Not playing some of the hardest, most demanding minutes on the team while we sit Edler. It's asinine.

No it’s not. They are going nowhere this year, you think Juolevi doesn’t know that, it is the perfect time to play him in that roll, there is nothing at stake but his own progress as a player. It is the perfect opportunity to play the young guys - or at least all we can afford to play within Benning’s cap.

[Junkyard Dog]

On 4/7/2021 at 2:16 PM, Fred65 said:

I believe there is a flaw in Juolevi's game and I'm sure they're working on it. If he can overcome  a long standing habit then he'll succeed if not I'm afraid Rathbone is on his tail wworking on his chance

Could be trying to get him back to 110% physically. Even though he’s fit/healthy to play his skating isn’t what it once was due to those significant injuries setting him back. 

 

If he can improve his skating then it will amplify the rest of his game. He’s a good zone defender but his skating effects his rush defence at times. He usually is smart enough to create enough of a gap when he has time but when there’s a quick turnover he can get caught flat-footed. 
 

I see a future for both Rathbone and OJ though. Edler isn’t getting much older and Rathbone has proven he can play both sides. We need all the young D we can get. 

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

As someone who was a starting pitcher, comparing them to an NHL player is odd.

Starting pitchers put a tremendous amount of strain on their arm the whole process is unnatural and is the reason so many develop injuries and why Tommy John surgery among others injuries are so common. Of course a pitcher throwing a 100+ pitches 85+ MPH need multiple days off at a time.

Not saying hockey players don't need rest but the comparison is just odd considering the amount of stress put on such tiny muscles, ligaments and tendons, compared to the bigger core muscles.

I think OJ in a regular year 82 games no Covid would have been handled differently and been up and down getting lots of games but both Benn and Edler have been healthy and played well and since it's the coaches job to win it is what it is. Next season I think he's on the team and playing regularly. 

I take your point, I played hockey and can assure you my knees are pretty well shot   I'm with Cathode on this one this is not about current games this is about planning for the future. You could start next season knowing little more about Rathbone Rafferty and Juolevi and start again with evaluation. Or you could take the remaining part of this wasted season and learn some thing new. I'd like to see how those three in particular could handle a strech of NHL play, who knows maybe Lind too ??

[Alienhuggyflow]

6 hours ago, Fred65 said:

I take your point, I played hockey and can assure you my knees are pretty well shot   I'm with Cathode on this one this is not about current games this is about planning for the future. You could start next season knowing little more about Rathbone Rafferty and Juolevi and start again with evaluation. Or you could take the remaining part of this wasted season and learn some thing new. I'd like to see how those three in particular could handle a strech of NHL play, who knows maybe Lind too ??

I agree with that and in a normal year I'm sure that's how it would have went. Can't blame Benning for the 14-day quarantine or the short schedule.

Disagree tho on sitting Edler, asking a rookie to fill his shoes is one thing to actively sit him making your team worse is coaching suicide and not something us fans should hope for. Sure once we are mathematically done sure play the kids, or perhaps Benn gets moved. But again this season has been so weird and here we are  8 points back with 8 games against the Sens and Flames, while the Habs have a bunch against the Jets and Leafs.

As for the pitching thing, I didn't mean it was a harder thing, only the unnatural motion of throwing a baseball a 100+ times causes so much wear and tear it needs the rest or you literally will just have a dead arm and be useless. Hockey of course takes way more of a toll on your body.

[Boudrias]

19 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Sure... Other than playing a bunch of kids WAY over their heads, in situations they're not ready for, ruining their confidence and possibly setting their development back.

 

This entire discussion tells me two things. 

 

1 A lot of you have zero appreciation for how much Edler's play means to this club/how good he still is, even diminished with age .

 

2 A lot of you have zero concept on how to develop kids.

Is anyone suggesting that Edler doesn't play? For me the season is done. Bring players like Jasek, Lind and Gadjovich up for some games is a smart move. What 19 games left? If Utica still has a season that impacts who might be called. Brisbois is playing in Laval, Rathbone can play out the season in Utica. Chatfield and Joulevi are in Vancouver. I was hoping Benn would be moved. Joulevi should play out the season on the 3rd pairing. Chatfield could get some games as well. These players are no longer kids. They are 3 and 4 year pros. This is developing not overexposure. 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Is anyone suggesting that Edler doesn't play? For me the season is done. Bring players like Jasek, Lind and Gadjovich up for some games is a smart move. What 19 games left? If Utica still has a season that impacts who might be called. Brisbois is playing in Laval, Rathbone can play out the season in Utica. Chatfield and Joulevi are in Vancouver. I was hoping Benn would be moved. Joulevi should play out the season on the 3rd pairing. Chatfield could get some games as well. These players are no longer kids. They are 3 and 4 year pros. This is developing not overexposure. 

Yup.

 

More than one poster in fact. That's where this whole discussion started, feel free to read back.

 

What nobody is suggesting, is that we shouldn't be playing kids. Everyone agrees on that.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by aGENT

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Is anyone suggesting that Edler doesn't play? For me the season is done. Bring players like Jasek, Lind and Gadjovich up for some games is a smart move. What 19 games left? If Utica still has a season that impacts who might be called. Brisbois is playing in Laval, Rathbone can play out the season in Utica. Chatfield and Joulevi are in Vancouver. I was hoping Benn would be moved. Joulevi should play out the season on the 3rd pairing. Chatfield could get some games as well. These players are no longer kids. They are 3 and 4 year pros. This is developing not overexposure. 

I kind of agree with what you're saying.  I think they should bring up the players that have to be re-signed at the end of the season.

Bris, Chat, Juolevi Jasek and Lind.  All of those players have had a lot of games in the AHL. Unfortunately Bailey is on LTIR.

 

The important thing is to simply sprinkle them throughout the lineup and don't overplay them. Not all at once, obviously.  Jasek/Kind can spit times and Chat/Juolevi/Bris rotate with Juolevi getting the most time.

 

It will take some time before the team Covid guys return; I expect they will trickle back, depending on how sick/out of shape each player is.  In the meantime, the coaching and management team get a chance to have a bird's-eye view of the prospects.

[Rick Blight]

37 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yup.

 

More than one poster in fact. That's where this whole discussion started, feel free to read back.

 

What nobody is suggesting, is that we shouldn't be paying kids. Everyone agrees on that.

 

 

I really think that is going too far...............

[Rick Blight]

Not sure how the normal 4 post trade deadline call up rule will be applied this year with the taxi squad and all but it certainly may impact how many of the youngsters we may be able to get into game action.

 

The CBA
constrains NHL teams to just four minor league call ups following the trade
deadline (emergency call ups notwithstanding). Sometimes these are used on
players that are “papered down”, and other times they are used to
give guys in the AHL a look in the big leagues

[aGENT]

15 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

I really think that is going too far...............

Thanks, fixed.

[kloubek]

I do agree that it's an opportunity to play the kids. We have a few key guys down there who deserve at least a few games to see what they can actually do in the bigs against proper competition. But overall, we still run with the full NHL lineup for the most part if possible.