coastal.view Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 1 minute ago, oldnews said: I don't pretend to know what's in Zack's best interests. I'm talking about a hockey move - the rest is speculation about his personal life, preferences, risks, etc. ok fair enough but when you talk about zack the discussion has to also involve his personal life since that is his biggest liability and he brings that along with him to whichever team he may play for and particularly with our team he was moved out because of his personal life issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Peter Campbell said: Why is Baertschi a middling talent? The only thing lacking in his game is physicality, and honestly he has a some pushback. What do you thinking would get Winnipeg talking? Buff does and he doesn't if you believe that this team is a contender within 4 years. He brings veteran leadership and physicality that is borderline unmatched in this league. Having stalwarts on our blueline like Tanev and Buff, would be invaluable to the group of defenceman who are coming thru the system. Imagine if Tryamkin had a mentor like Buff? Not on the same level but whats your opinion on Muzzin? Also if we just want pure physicality with the ability to pot a few, Dustin Brown? We have cap for the next few.. Ask yourself where Baertschi falls on this list: Kyle Connor Nik Ehlers Sven Baertschi. I think I've answered my own question there. Baertschi is a middling asset, particularly if you're trying to sell him to Winnipeg. And don't take that the wrong way - he's a good 2nd line forward, but you need to offer something a team needs, and it has to have reasonable relative value - which he simply does not, particularly in a discussion that is supposed to convince them to part with Byfuglien. Why exactly would they do that at this point of their trajectory. Jake Muzzin - good player - but really, it he the type of player we're discussing here? Not really. Brown has grit - but likewise - and I'd be in no hurry to take on 5 years at 5.875 million. I think a guy like Zack makes a whole lot more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, coastal.view said: ok fair enough but when you talk about zack the discussion has to also involve his personal life since that is his biggest liability and he brings that along with him to whichever team he may play for and particularly with our team he was moved out because of his personal life issues yes, I'm aware of that - and there are no arguments about his history - but he's also older, more developed, more mature and not the same player - and I can only suspect the same may be the case with him personally. As a hockey asset, he's one that I like the price and fit of tbh - and always liked him as a player. I wouldn't hesitate to take another chance on him - I think he's revived his career - the rest I simply don't know enough about the current state of his personal life and I don't judge him on it, or his history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Who needs a tough guy when you got Jordan "Upper cut" Subban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Campbell Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, oldnews said: Ask yourself where Baertschi falls on this list: Kyle Connor Nik Ehlers Sven Baertschi. I think I've answered my own question there. Baertschi is a middling asset, particularly if you're trying to sell him to Winnipeg. And don't take that the wrong way - he's a good 2nd line forward, but you need to offer something a team needs, and it has to have reasonable relative value - which he simply does not, particularly in a discussion that is supposed to convince them to part with Byfuglien. Why exactly would they do that at this point of their trajectory. Jake Muzzin - good player - but really, it he the type of player we're discussing here? Not really. Brown has grit - but likewise - and I'd be in no hurry to take on 5 years at 5.875 million. I think a guy like Zack makes a whole lot more sense. Ehlers can play either wing. A young playmaking goalscorer in Baertschi is what every team in the NHL is looking for. If Winnipeg got a player that could put their offence over the top, you think they would not consider it? Why would they hold onto Buff, if they could end up with a legit top six winger, a serviceable top 5 guy with potential to be a deadly top 3, a borderline starting goalie, and possibly the biggest steal in the 2017 draft. Muzzin could be acquired with a similar package. I large part of me is fine with eating that contract knowing that even if the Sedins resign for 2 its at a substantially lower cap hit. I loved Cody more than I loved Zack, but Kassian has found a home currently and I would't uproot him for a bunch of issues that have previously been discussed in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkpoet Posted December 2, 2017 Author Share Posted December 2, 2017 I had thought about including Kassian in the discussion originally, but I just couldn't really figure out what to say, or convey how I feel about that possibility. Everyone here knows the history, obviously. Where's his head at these days? Is he still clean? I admit it was fun watching Edmonton in the playoffs last year, (not that I was cheering for them) and Zack had a helluva post-season.... but Overall I guess I'm gonna have to call this the Bad Girlfriend. When you break up with someone who was a hot mess, it's almost always a bad idea to try again, and there are always better options than the hot mess if you take the time to find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Peter Campbell said: Ehlers can play either wing. A young playmaking goalscorer in Baertschi is what every team in the NHL is looking for. If Winnipeg got a player that could put their offence over the top, you think they would not consider it? Why would they hold onto Buff, if they could end up with a legit top six winger, a serviceable top 5 guy with potential to be a deadly top 3, a borderline starting goalie, and possibly the biggest steal in the 2017 draft. Muzzin could be acquired with a similar package. I large part of me is fine with eating that contract knowing that even if the Sedins resign for 2 its at a substantially lower cap hit. I loved Cody more than I loved Zack, but Kassian has found a home currently and I would't uproot him for a bunch of issues that have previously been discussed in this thread. Sorry, we're not going to find common ground here. Let me expand that list for you: Laine Ehlers Connor Wheeler Where does Baertschi fit in their top 6? Answer - he doesn't make their top 6. And that's without getting into who else they have in their pipeline and on their roster. Really like Baertschi - but being real here. A 3rd line forward in their scheme is not a principal for Dustin Byfuglien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Campbell Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 That's more than fine, I appreciate your honesty. Honestly I would take Baer over Wheeler in a heartbeat, but that's just my perspective. I also feel Wheeler has the ability to elevate a line, where Baer his the ability to complete one. So just for hypotheticals, what would you think a fair trade for Byfuglien is from both stand points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Wasn't Dorsett one of the guys trying to teach the kids to defend themselves? Even Crosby doesn't let people take liberties with him. I am worried if our young players need babysitters. Yeah we want toughness, but that doesn't necessarily mean fighting. Guys like Boeser, and Sven and Goldy should just push back when people try and pull stuff. Not look around for daddy Dorsett. If they need to, drop the mitts. Even the Sedins, albeit much later in their careers started scrumming it up if people got too touchy feely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 2 hours ago, oldnews said: I'd prefer to liberate Zack from that lottery champion gongshow in Deadmonton and bring him back where he belongs. He has a couple years left at $2 million - and he's being wasted in Siberia, playing fourth line minutes (22nd in atoi there) and confined in his role. I like the developments in Kass' game - penalty killing, better two way player who also stepped up when it counted. Still no doubt has those fine hands, good speed, and that unpredictable edge of his. Market value - does anyone think it would take anywhere near as much to pry Zack out of Edmonton? In addition, Edmonton has it's Lucic, it's Maroon, Gryba, Nurse....And Zack has journeyed, meaning his perceived value is probably not in the same ballpark despite him being every bit the player Wilson is, every bit as tough, every bit as much upside. Free Zack. His true job should be scoring goals, making sweet feeds, playing good two way hockey, and of course, punching Coiler faces, not wearing that ugly jersey. Kassian for Subban, book it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 28 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said: Who needs a tough guy when you got Jordan "Upper cut" Subban? Funny, Subban found a guy smaller than himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, Peter Campbell said: That's more than fine, I appreciate your honesty. Honestly I would take Baer over Wheeler in a heartbeat, but that's just my perspective. I also feel Wheeler has the ability to elevate a line, where Baer his the ability to complete one. So just for hypotheticals, what would you think a fair trade for Byfuglien is from both stand points? I agree with you on this - Baertschi and Hutton (aside from Edler) are probably the most tradeable/expendable assets this team has - the assets that might make the most sense to move for value. I just don't see Winnipeg being a dance partner that would have interest in them, despite their value - it has to make sense for both teams. I honestly don't see a Byfuglien deal happening - from either standpoint. I would not be willing to talk the assets it would take, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davathor Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: Wasn't Dorsett one of the guys trying to teach the kids to defend themselves? Even Crosby doesn't let people take liberties with him. I am worried if our young players need babysitters. Yeah we want toughness, but that doesn't necessarily mean fighting. Guys like Boeser, and Sven and Goldy should just push back when people try and pull stuff. Not look around for daddy Dorsett. If they need to, drop the mitts. Even the Sedins, albeit much later in their careers started scrumming it up if people got too touchy feely. Scorers, especially smaller ones, are never a good idea to expect them to fight... even if Boeser held his own, what if he breaks a hand? Personally I'd be cringing if I saw Boeser throwing punches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: Kassian for Subban, book it. booked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Luxury Yacht Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: Kassian for Subban, book it. I don't think it wil ahppen, but it would make me smile if it did. If we are looking for an enforcer, Kassian would be a good fit, and man would this forum go off! I still like him, if we could get him for Subban, I would jump at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12-16-FG Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 I tell you what, If I was the coach, I would ensure Virt was in the line up. Line him up with Gagne and Grandlund, match this line with mathews or kadri, and say play all ends and finish your checks. Cause i'm sure Virts will hit a leaf on the for check, or end boards that will send shivers down every ones back. TO can't afford to match lines as Van is more rounded than TO. And who knows what Vancouver line will shine above the rest. Maybe even Gaunce comes to play a hard nosed game. (Archie gets a call up) LOL. But it should be entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 I wish people would stop thinking of Virtanen as some sort of tough guy. He can lay hits, but doesn't and can't answer the bell for those actions. He isn't even a middleweight, he has occasionally gone with other non-fighters but that is it. If Benning can't figure something out in the short term, he will certainly try to address it in the off season. Kane in the top 6 would be a start and then someone for the bottom pairing D and/or 4th line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 I wonder if Anton Roussel is available. Never should have let him walk to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRypien37 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Dorsett intimidating....lol I love the guy. Heart and soul, but its lets be real here... The last time the Canuck's had someone that brought ANY kind of intimidation (although very limited as he wasn't the best fighter) was Tostitos. Mainly only because of his size and style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmy Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 I wonder what it would take to get John Hayden from Chicago. 24gp 3g 6a 9pts 60hits Big power winger with a good shot that can definetly take care of himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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