Is Alex Edler Done in Vancouver?

[Canuck Surfer]

2 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Exactly this. But then why are people defending Benning for trading valuable picks for crap that isn’t worth Jack and untraceable? Lol

I would defend Benning trading picks. For players like Dorsett, Baer, even Vey?  If that is what you are referring to. Defend it all day, every day.

 

I cannnot blame him at all? For not wanting the team to descend into a complete free for all, spiral to chaos. Not all teams recover. There are more Florida and Edmonton stories. Than there are Chicago or Pitt, who won cups.  And also won, lucked into if we're being honest, generational talents at the time they went scorched Earth.

 

Look to the period before Burke arrived.  We were a sorry ass losing team. But not even at the dregs of the league. And the P & E, then GM place were empty. There was talk of us leaving town. It cost Arthur Griffiths his fortune.  Pitt, won cups but literally went bankrupt in the time preceding. And, even with our so so team, with the Twins.  Attendance & team values have plummeted. We're a fair weather hockey town. I can only imagine how bad it would be if we were Buffalo, or Florida for 10 years?

 

Even if you believe in such rebuilds, sell everything and wait for the fruits of high picks?  I would never argue for such in Vancouver. I believe you try & wind, at least as much as is reasonable. Rather than lose on purpose. Normal cycles, life itself suggest you have some down time anyway.  That is what I believe happened here, and I don't blame Benning for it. 

 

No harm in being grumpy about individual moves which backfired? Eriksson, Clendenning sucked, Jake is less than ideal? Blunders. Lets say we've taken 15 steps in 5 years?

 

We're still ten steps closer to a long term, sustainable, high quality hockey team.

 

 

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, aGENT said:

All of those guys are a downgrade in everything but age.

 

Edler's still a #2D (albeit likely to regress to a #3-#4 over his extension).

 

By all means, there's no way I'm suggesting we cave on protecting him for the ED but the talk in this thread has gone silly. As @Phat Fingers pointed out, this is all just media stirring up excrement to attempt to stay relative and keep the clicks and listeners rolling in. Edler's agent's doing his job, Benning's doing his. The rest is just noise.

 

Y'all are being trolled, as usual.

Not according to experts (that Myers and Gardiner is a downgrade).  Don’t take my word for it take some time and see what they think of who’s available and where they’d rank them (THN has Gardiner ahead of Myers and Edler almost on the second page ... guess they consider age and injuries a factor ... why wouldn’t you.).   Edler is fourth best UFA defenseman in his class.  Homer glasses aside, I like Edler and hope he signs to something reasonable.  But I’m not apposed  to what else is available...and also see him dropping fast  in a year or two after he does sign with his next team.  Same thing happened to Ohlund, he left a bit earlier and crushed some guys in TB for a couple years before fading out of the league.   Elder isn’t good enough to play until he’s in his late thirties, and his body won’t allow it either.    Agreed this probably clickbait...but if he’s not signed in the next two weeks I’m sure Benning is looking elsewhere too.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Besides Hughes, there’s no one else really though, thanks to Benning. 4 years of keeping all your picks instead of trading them for crap like Baerschi and Vey might have produced another candidate by now but unfortunately Benning likes his bottom 6 and we will never know what we gave up for guys we can get from waivers or free agency.

Back at it again I see.   How many second round picks have become competent defenseman so far...or top six quality players? Hmmm.  Well thanks for playing though...

[aGENT]

43 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Not according to experts (that Myers and Gardiner is a downgrade).  Don’t take my word for it take some time and see what they think of who’s available and where they’d rank them (THN has Gardiner ahead of Myers and Edler almost on the second page ... guess they consider age and injuries a factor ... why wouldn’t you.).   Edler is fourth best UFA defenseman in his class.  Homer glasses aside, I like Edler and hope he signs to something reasonable.  But I’m not apposed  to what else is available...and also see him dropping fast  in a year or two after he does sign with his next team.  Same thing happened to Ohlund, he left a bit earlier and crushed some guys in TB for a couple years before fading out of the league.   Elder isn’t good enough to play until he’s in his late thirties, and his body won’t allow it either.    Agreed this probably clickbait...but if he’s not signed in the next two weeks I’m sure Benning is looking elsewhere too.

I most certainly accounts for age etc.

 

They're not better D men at this stage.

[RowdyCanuck]

4 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Besides Hughes, there’s no one else really though, thanks to Benning. 4 years of keeping all your picks instead of trading them for crap like Baerschi and Vey might have produced another candidate by now but unfortunately Benning likes his bottom 6 and we will never know what we gave up for guys we can get from waivers or free agency.

Do you know the difference between a retool and a rebuild?...Jim tried to do both at the same time and it didn't work...Jim was trying to give the Sedins one more kick at the can...He took a gamble and it didn't work sue him....a lot of Gms try what he did....oilers trade a first for Griffin reinhart.....another first for cam talbot.....blues tried it with magnus paajarvi and it didn't work....it's not like Jim had much to work with..he had no prospects outside of Bo worth anything at the time and whole team was old or had No trade clauses.....thx to Jim we have OJ and Quinn that play left side Jett woo and hopefully another RD this draft....so chill lol

Edited June 13, 2019 by RowdyCanuck

[iceman64]

6 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Lol contradict yourself much? 

 

In a previous post you defend Benning but in this post you admit that Benning traded very very valuable draft picks for players just eating cap and not condusive to our proper rebuild?

 

If you know full well how garbage these guys are why did you defend us trading much more valuable pieces for them?

 

Thats a terrible GM is he traded picks for players we don’t need for a our cup run. Like it or not, you are indirectly agreeing with the people that know just how bad Benning really is.

Have you been smoking something?  That was a few years back when we were handcuffed by bad contracts, we now have one and he's like on the way out soon... do you even bother to read before you blither b.s.?

[khay]

On 6/11/2019 at 5:56 PM, HerrDrFunk said:

So because he doesn't want to potentially leave Vancouver for Seattle, he'll leave Vancouver entirely? Makes sense. 

I agree. "I'm going to leave Vancouver because I don't want to play for Seattle." That report doesn't make any sense.

 

Back to OP, I think he will explore the market. He is going to see if anyone is going to offer him the money (7+), terms (4+), and possibly NMC. This is going to be his very last big contract so his advisor/agent is telling him to do the right thing by exploring the market and maximize his income. NMC will be nice to have since it gives security for your family but I think he will go for max money + term and someone will offer him what the Canucks won't offer.

 

[Tomatoes11]

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

Have you been smoking something?  That was a few years back when we were handcuffed by bad contracts, we now have one and he's like on the way out soon... do you even bother to read before you blither b.s.?

 

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

Have you been smoking something?  That was a few years back when we were handcuffed by bad contracts, we now have one and he's like on the way out soon... do you even bother to read before you blither b.s.?

Lol please. Inheriting a bad team is no excuse to make bad trades. Bad trades are bad trades regardless of your situation. Trading low firsts or high 2nd round picks for garbage is never the correct move. 

 

I can’t believe guys can’t realize that. Just because you are a Canuck fan it doesn’t mean you should blindly defend poor team management. 

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, Tomatoes11 said:

 

Lol please. Inheriting a bad team is no excuse to make bad trades. Bad trades are bad trades regardless of your situation. Trading low firsts or high 2nd round picks for garbage is never the correct move. 

 

I can’t believe guys can’t realize that. Just because you are a Canuck fan it doesn’t mean you should blindly defend poor team management. 

Obviously you  haven't been around hockey very long or you'd realize the reality of how bad this team really was when he took over... take off your homer glasses and do some research and you might see something different, do you really think this team was any good before he took over?  But answer this, in his position when he took over the team with an aging core and bad contracts, tell everyone exactly what you would have done... i doubt you'll have much of an answer but i'm curious anyway...  

[khay]

12 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

This is a pretty fair post Ice.  

 

Fans were a bit heartbroken when Salo went to Tampa?  But it did not work out for Tampa.

Gardiner is good, and true, he does not deserve to be a whipping boy.  Key with Gardiner though, like, say, Keith Yandle?  

 

Is that Gardiner is a different kind of D. Edler, in his prime, scored 50 points. With a big shot PP & 5 on 5, and passing the puck to skilled forwards. Not a play driver, per se. But a great complimentary offensive player. Gardiner on the other hand has an ok shot, a better wrister. Key is how he contributes to the offense. When a D has the puck at the blue line, defensive forwards come out to pressure the D in many or most systems not run by Tortorella. Edler pivots and rotates the puck or shoots. Gardiner beats those forwards and jumps into lanes, heads towards the net. He's not just fast, he's quick. Gardiners strength is his offense, like Yandle.

 

Gardiners main problem? Well, he had two or three in Toronto. Even if he was good. Morgan Reilly was better. More important, they had no great RHD. Related, they also did not really have any great defensive D. Gardiner included. Hainsey? Polak a few years ago?? Great would be pushing it. So TO, also having those forwards, played an up tempo, high risk game style. In a game where there are 60 extra possessions. A few mistakes, Gardiners included, would get made up for by the opportunities Marner & crew would create?  But inclusive, having no RHD or true pairing for Reilly, Gardiner often played on his wrong side. Try clearing the puck under pressure with a forward cruising in on the fore check. On your backhand, with your head turned away from all the passing lanes.  Gardiner was going to make more mistakes, so did Edler (and Hamhuis) when they played their offside under Tortorella.

 

With us, I'm not particularly interested in Gardiner. Hughes is going to be the key guy handling the puck, jumping into lanes at the blue line. And Gardiner is not as suited to playing defensive minutes. As Edler in a secondary role. And a year from now, we hope to have Juolevi & Hughes to handle the puck as LHD. Me, I'm after a defensive defenceman if we sign a LHD.  Here is the thing?  Next two best on the market are Methot.  He played 9 games last year. Or Coburn. Functional, but a step slower than Edler. Gardiner is fine, if you want a Keith Yandle, effective at one end D.  Edler is the best LHD, for what we want, among UFA's.

 

On the right side, usually more sparse, there is Karlsson as elite, Myers as quality, Strallman plus Girardi in a mid tier level, both have age and injury questions to a higher degree than Edler, and McQuaid or Lovejoy a veteran options.  Gardiner is better than a lot of them.  But I don't see why he is afit, considering the term and cost he will command. Or that we don't have a role suited for him? There is room to create the right role for any of these RHD IMO.

 

So we could play that market, find someone who takes an offer like Beagle to be great depth & a leader? Use the extra money not spent on Duchesne, Eberle, Panarin? Or just pay Karlsson the big bucks, Myer's similar money as Edler, but with term because he is younger.  

Man, this is an excellent post. 

 

I don't think we need to sign an LHD unless it's Edler or one of those defensive defencemen on a shorter term deal. 

 

With Hughes to be the main guy and Juolevi in the pipeline, there is no space for Gardiner, beyond maybe next season. Gardiner will want term and as soon as Juolevi makes the team, we will be regretting signing Gardiner. Assuming Karlsson is unattainable, I'd first try to re-sign Edler to 3-year (at most 4 years) deal because he brings solid defence as well as decent offence and in the last year (or two) of his contract, he will be a 3rd pairing defenceman playing a responsible game on the defensive side. Concurrently, I would target Myers as he is basically Edler but on the right side. I don't know what JB's plan is on the RHD if we don't sign say Myers. Nothing in the pipeline and not many assets to trade to attain a quality RHD.

 

Hughes-Myers

Edler-Tanev

Hutton-Stecher

Schenn

 

Then, once Juloevi makes the team and say we bring Tryamkin back,

 

Hughes-Tryamkin

Juolevi-Myers

Edler-Stecher

 

[khay]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6

10 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Are you serious? All JB was doing was biding his time until he actually something to work with, all those nmc and ntc contracts and you think you could have done better? That would be like playing a hand of poker with being dealt a pair of dueces against opponents with 3 of a king and straights which was exactly the case.. how can you win with cards like that? No one can... yeah its easy to say that kind of thing being an armchair gm when you have no idea about the dealings or simply thinking anyone would come to canada to get paid less due to taxes... man if it was that easy... smh...

Not to mention that one of the core players, Kesler demanded to be traded with only 2 teams as his desired locations. 

 

I sometimes wonder what if Kesler didn't demand the trade? In the end, Kesler trade left us with only Pearson and Sutter. Sutter became a bit redundant now with Beagle. Pearson could be a solid contributor but I wouldn't say he is a key piece of the puzzle. 

 

In 2015, we would have beaten Calgary with Kesler in the lineup and that alone may have been worth it.

 

[Hindustan Smyl]

On 6/11/2019 at 11:56 PM, HerrDrFunk said:

So because he doesn't want to potentially leave Vancouver for Seattle, he'll leave Vancouver entirely? Makes sense. 

It does in a way.

 

It seems like security is the biggest priority for Edler.  He doesn’t want to commit to a location with his family, and then have to move unexpectedly.   He’d possibly rather move now and settle rather than wondering if he’ll have to move later.

[nuck-lifer]

2 hours ago, khay said:

Man, this is an excellent post. 

 

I don't think we need to sign an LHD unless it's Edler or one of those defensive defencemen on a shorter term deal. 

 

With Hughes to be the main guy and Juolevi in the pipeline, there is no space for Gardiner, beyond maybe next season. Gardiner will want term and as soon as Juolevi makes the team, we will be regretting signing Gardiner. Assuming Karlsson is unattainable, I'd first try to re-sign Edler to 3-year (at most 4 years) deal because he brings solid defence as well as decent offence and in the last year (or two) of his contract, he will be a 3rd pairing defenceman playing a responsible game on the defensive side. Concurrently, I would target Myers as he is basically Edler but on the right side. I don't know what JB's plan is on the RHD if we don't sign say Myers. Nothing in the pipeline and not many assets to trade to attain a quality RHD.

 

Hughes-Myers

Edler-Tanev

Hutton-Stecher

Schenn

 

Then, once Juloevi makes the team and say we bring Tryamkin back,

 

Hughes-Tryamkin

Juolevi-Myers

Edler-Stecher

 

I like that final scenario.

You  have 2 experienced guys to bring a balanced D and O. Hughes will hopefully be our Krug and log big offensive minutes while Juolevi can run the 2nd PP or swap out with Edler.

The only concern would be cap space signing both Edler and Myers to say 7M contracts, and then Hughes, Tram and Juolevi contracts coming up soon after.

It could put us over the 30M mark for defense which would put us in a crunch position, but our D could be top 5 when the kids get a couple years under their belts.

Could see Stecher traded for a low cost RD as 3rd pairing guy to hang on to the rest.

 

[TheCerebral1]

I like Alex Edler, he's been here for the long haul and realistically I'd love to see him retire as a Canuck the way Ohlund should have.  However, at the same time, his injuries and ability to stay on the ice are starting to mount as he gets closer to the end of his career.  So, for the right deal sure, I'd love to bring him back, but in terms of tossing money out the window, pass!  Our top defensemen at the moment (Hughes should pass this soon), Tanev is also in his 30's now and injury prone.   You sincerely just cannot support too many of these risks.  For the betterment of the club we'd be better off reinvesting in someone like Gardiner who I'm not that high on, but he's been relatively healthy and plays a sturdy two way game. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by TheCerebral1

[Tomatoes11]

5 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Obviously you  haven't been around hockey very long or you'd realize the reality of how bad this team really was when he took over... take off your homer glasses and do some research and you might see something different, do you really think this team was any good before he took over?  But answer this, in his position when he took over the team with an aging core and bad contracts, tell everyone exactly what you would have done... i doubt you'll have much of an answer but i'm curious anyway...  

Keep all of my draft picks for starters......

 

lol the fact that you homers actually thought that we needed to buy time by pissing away draft picks is quite laughable. We could have reached exactly where we are right  now but better by keeping our picks.

 

Unless you actually really believe that Baertschi, Vey, Prust etc has any bearing at all on how Boeser and EP turned out. I don’t in in slightest and I think that’s about right.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Tomatoes11

[Tomatoes11]

At the time of the Kesler trade the ducks were going all in. At the very least they wanted to keep Bonino, but I also think they wanted to keep Sbisa. But no, dim jim held out into they threw in Bonino to replace Kesler because in his delusion, we needed to replace our second line center with someone more cooked than a rookie.

 

He could have easily gotten Theodore instead of Bonino. But nope, he is a terrible GM.

 

of course cue the Benning defense force with he was only following FA mandate. Lol

 

Let’s say this mandate was actually true. You can easily get around this by feeding him BS Theodore was ready to step in or whatever younger prospect than Bonino was ready to step in. 

[Tomatoes11]

11 hours ago, IBatch said:

Back at it again I see.   How many second round picks have become competent defenseman so far...or top six quality players? Hmmm.  Well thanks for playing though...

Tons. The most recent con smythe trophy winner for one. Duncan Keith too. No matter how small the chance, it still beats baerschi and Vey any day of the week. You can get those guys off waivers really or at the very least free agency or undrafted late bloomers.

[CaptKirk888]

4 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Tons. The most recent con smythe trophy winner for one. Duncan Keith too. No matter how small the chance, it still beats baerschi and Vey any day of the week. You can get those guys off waivers really or at the very least free agency or undrafted late bloomers.

You quoted 2 names = tons. I know you are just on here to have your fun. Though your comments are quite irritating to most, I understand you have your differing opinion. To anyone who disagrees with Tomatoes, you must realize you are just entering a vicious circle. 

[Tyndall2]

Let's move on from Edler.  Start playing some of our younger draft choices, etc 

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Keep all of my draft picks for starters......

 

lol the fact that you homers actually thought that we needed to buy time by pissing away draft picks is quite laughable. We could have reached exactly where we are right  now but better by keeping our picks.

 

Unless you actually really believe that Baertschi, Vey, Prust etc has any bearing at all on how Boeser and EP turned out. I don’t in in slightest and I think that’s about right.

That’s easy for anyone to say in hindsight.   33 of 34 possible picks and many of them higher then the actual allotment...it’s not like he pissed away half our picks chasing a re-tool or cup or whatever that hard.   It seems your sole contribution to this site is a constant flow of berating management and this is your go to thing. 

 

Bennings not perfect and at some point they all get fired.  But the one thing that we needed the most he managed to do in SPITE of the re-tool...currently we have the 3rd best group of 21 and unders which also is four spots higher then his average draft slot.   Who knows maybe if he kept two seconds and didn’t trade McAan we’d have one more decent guy in the lineup...another Demko pick...or maybe a Lind pick...or another Woo?  

 

That said we don’t and he didn’t so what’s the point in attacking the same guy who picked the other core members?  Maybe we’d have Patrick instead of EP (he’s be crucified if he didn’t pick him if we went number two)..

 

Can you say anything positive about him or give credit where it’s due?  Or do you place GMs on a mantle where nothing but 100% success matters?  

 

One more draft like the last two and we are in for a treat, with a core capable of competing for years...maybe temper your expectations a bit because no GMs perfect, and he’s at least in the top third ... or above average overall.