coryberg Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: Ah yes, personal insults rather than any kind of response. So how am I wrong? 'We think we can turn this thing around quickly' - Jim Benning 2014. You say that Jim hasn't even tried to add a 1st round pick. That he hasn't even entertained the idea. Do you really believe that to be true? Please say yes 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, coryberg said: You say that Jim hasn't even tried to add a 1st round pick. That he hasn't even entertained the idea. Do you really believe that to be true? Please say yes They were forced to trade Kesler. And ended up trading the player they drafted after his rookie season. They've never tried to get a premium for their assets. Chris Tanev died on the vine, and they didn't trade him because 'who's going to play' for a bottom 5 team in the league. So yes, who did they willingly try to trade for a 1st round pick? At what point did they accept this was going to be a long term thing? Edit: And again, I don't blame my complaints all on Jim. Ownership has played a significant role. Edited June 23, 2019 by Smashian Kassian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Love this acquisition. I have wanted to add Miller, Beagle and Pesce for the last 3 years! Cant believe we have 2 out of 3 now! C’mon JB find a way to prise Pesce from CAR!!!! Pllleeeeaasse! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: They've never tried to get a premium for their assets. I feel like I'm talking to Donald Trump here. Just making up facts as you go. I can't take you seriously. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, coryberg said: I feel like I'm talking to Donald Trump here. Just making up facts as you go. I can't take you seriously. Again can't respond to anything I say. We are all fans, if you actually have a legitimate response, I'm here. Otherwise this is pot-meet-kettle stuff to me. Just garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post spook007 Posted June 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2019 Don't get it... What the hell is all the fuss about... 'we got fleeced...' How did we get fleeced? Benning wanted Miller, that was the price end off... The likelihood of Benning getting him for less was like Zero and its not as if Miller is a cap dump... If Bolts wanted a cap dump the would get rid of an old garbage contract and probably pay their way out it, but this is not the case here... Our team is full of young players in top end, and yet we rather let them swim on their own than give them proper players to play with. I bet Horvat will be so happy to see this move. It shows him the team wants to win now... Keep adding picks only may repeat MAY turn us into a great team, but flipping when??? IN another 4-8 years...maybe... This is the time to start push towards the top.... Happy to see Benning doing something to improve the team. And who's to say he is finish improving our team? Go Benning. 3 1 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: Again can't respond to anything I say. We are all fans, if you actually have a legitimate response, I'm here. Otherwise this is pot-meet-kettle stuff to me. Just garbage. Different opinions are fine, but you’d be mighty lonely having the opinion that the general manager of the entire Canucks organization has “not once (never) tried to get a premium for their assets”. They may not succeed in getting a premium, but they definitely try to. No GM tries to give up assets for a low return, regardless of your opinion on the issue. Every GM in the league is trying to get as much as they can for what they have, that’s literally in their job description. It’s also why Jim Benning is currently being paid to manage the team and we are posting on an online fan forum about how we think he should manage. In the end it matters little what we think, the market and circumstances determine the price for an asset and it’s only as high as what someone else is willing to pay at that moment. Edited June 23, 2019 by StanleyCupOneDay 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 What's with this talk JT Miller is a great player etc... I see someone who's failed to help a stacked up Lightning team do any damage in the playoffs 2 years in a row, demoted to bottom 6 and gave up on by trading away. Sure, nice top 6 for us. But probably not a big difference maker especially with our defense so crappy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 11 hours ago, aGENT said: Are people still going to be upset if he acquires a late 1st next year for say Tanev or Sutter and basically replaces this? Of course they are.... we could have two 1st then.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 11 hours ago, oldnews said: True. And still, even a lottery pick can turn out to be a lesser player, while a late 1st can turn into a Getzlaf or Perry.. The median value of any pick outside the top 10 is liikely to be significantly less than Miller - that picks value is the median value (average odds overall) at whatever position it turns out to be - until the team makes that pick, and the rest of that contingency depends on their own doing - who they select, how they develop them, etc. I think one of the main axes of this deal is whether the team is willing to 'bet' on it's players - it's young core. A GM can walk into a room and say - 'I made no moves because I have faith in this group as it is' - and perhaps that is a vote of confidence. They can also walk iinto that room and think 'I made no moves because I don't think you guys are capable of making the playoffs in the next few years, so I'm unwilling to part with a decent percentage draft pick in the interim'. What this move says, imo - is that 'I'm willing to spend a first in the next few years for a few reasons - I have faith that you guys can perform and this won't come back to bite us as a lottery pick', and 'I also think this young core, particularly the top line of Pettersson and Boeser - are worth going out and getting that key third piece to maximize their conditions, growth - the right complmentary player to help them be as successful as possible'. I personally like what it says to EP, Boeser, the rest of the core - also to any other players that might consider coming here - and to the veterans and supporting cast foundation who have and continue to put in hard miles in the process of the transition. I have a fairly conservative perspective where spending assets are concerned, but if and when you are going to, make it a player in a context like this - a well-calculated risk imo - and I'm in. This.... I bet a player like Bo is delighted with this move... Its shows him that we will be pushing, while e's turning into his prime... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Trebreh said: must read https://twitter.com/mikeinthevalley/status/1142639644930007041?s=21 Basically, what he is saying is that if we make the playoffs in 2020 or 2021, then the cost is fair since it's JT Miller for mid-late first + 3rd. On the flip side, if we miss the playoffs in both of those years and the pick we give up in 2021 turns out to be a top 10 pick, we lose the trade. If it turns out to be a top 5 pick or a lottery pick, then we lose big. JT Miller is certainly a good addition to the team. But I don't like this type of trade that depends on team's future performance as it brings way too much uncertainty. It's like one of those financial derivatives (i.e., call/put options). Some fans are mad because of the risk factor. Look at Ottawa, they were within one game of SCF, so they traded for Duchene to help them over the top. Well they got to pick 4th overall in two consecutive years and one of those 4th overall isn't going to be playing for them. There is no denying that this was a bit of a desperation move by JB to try and improve the roster now. His job is on the line and really, the only tradable assets that can get us a top 6F/top 4D are future 1st rounders. I understand the move, but I don't like the risk. Now, I hope JB can sign Panarin and get us a top 4D and for his sake, EP, Boeser, and Hughes take a huge step forward as well as JV, Gaud, and Juolevi. If we make the playoffs, this risk will have been worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, messier's_elbow said: This trade isn’t nearly as bad as some are making it out to be, but as a rule I would never trade a first round pick unless it was for a young star. JT is good but he’s not a star as of now. Unfortunately and fortunately depending on what side your on and what the return is, first rounders have been thrown around like candy at or near the TDL for as long as I remember. Not as much as they used to be the last couple years...Tatar and two years left on his contract was worth two firsts, and Vegas used him for depth in their run...of course not all firsts are created equal, one from the presidents trophy team equals a 29-31 overall, close to a second rounder on a bottom team. The cost for JT Miller on an average team that had plenty of cap space would have been a lot more, the picks plus JV... We simply won’t get guys like him without overpaying an older UFA version, or well using our picks. Thankfully TB viewed ours as valuable enough to make the deal, you can bet other teams would have been bidding too, or at the very least TB would have let every other team know he was in play and if they were interested what would they pay...ours was the best offer. At some point in your cycle you use your first rounders, haven’t seen this before (using it for to plug a gaping hole with a quality guy during a rebuild) on the Canucks that I re-call, a wily ballsy move. Have seen a lot go the other way for rentals at or near the TDL though, that I’m not a fan of at all anymore given every team needs their picks to help balance their books now..but if you think your close then going for it is a good move too. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pears Posted June 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2019 J.T. Miller is the perfect winger for Horvat. Bit of a price? Sure. But like for anything you gotta pay value to get value and he’s still only 26 and should be good for anywhere between 45-60 points, which alone will be an improvement. The only ones thinking this is our “Ottawa” moment, only want to look at the negatives and refuse to see how adding a guy like Miller is awesome for us. Let’s put it this way. If you’re sick of losing, like I’m sure we all are, would you rather bank on someone who will be drafted next year or 2021 while wasting valuable years of Horvat’s prime? Or get someone to help make the playoffs now? I’m thinking the answer should be pretty obvious. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post spook007 Posted June 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2019 11 hours ago, Alflives said: You think we were the only team in on JTM? This is exactly the key Alf.... Amazing its so hard to understand for some. You don't get good players in their prime on great contract, for free...simples. Benning could have waited, but the likelihood of Miller being gone or Tampa having dealt another player was probably too big for Benning to risk it. He wanted Miller. A top 6 player. We all know, we have been screaming out for a top 6 player in our line up to supplement the famous 3. Now FA comes and he has time to shop around as he has filled one of the three positions needed. Next up a RHD if possible.... 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, BigTramFan said: Love this acquisition. I have wanted to add Miller, Beagle and Pesce for the last 3 years! Cant believe we have 2 out of 3 now! C’mon JB find a way to prise Pesce from CAR!!!! Pllleeeeaasse! Yeah come on Benning. We should be able to get him for sutter, hutton and a third. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, babalu said: Yeah come on Benning. We should be able to get him for sutter, hutton and a third. If you say so... ...I think your values are a little off pal. But keep trying and I’m sure you’ll begin to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IBatch Posted June 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, spook007 said: Don't get it... What the hell is all the fuss about... 'we got fleeced...' How did we get fleeced? Benning wanted Miller, that was the price end off... The likelihood of Benning getting him for less was like Zero and its not as if Miller is a cap dump... If Bolts wanted a cap dump the would get rid of an old garbage contract and probably pay their way out it, but this is not the case here... Our team is full of young players in top end, and yet we rather let them swim on their own than give them proper players to play with. I bet Horvat will be so happy to see this move. It shows him the team wants to win now... Keep adding picks only may repeat MAY turn us into a great team, but flipping when??? IN another 4-8 years...maybe... This is the time to start push towards the top.... Happy to see Benning doing something to improve the team. And who's to say he is finish improving our team? Go Benning. Great post. Got to admit I was in shock when I heard the trade and it took some time and some research for it to soak it. Don’t see JT Miller a lot so for a lot us including me he’s a bit of an unknown. Knew TB coveted him when they picked him up though...seemed like a guy that would help push them over the top. And he’s helped them do that for sure. To me we’ve added another Horvat type that can move around where he’s needed....that’s worth a first and a third every time. What would we want back if we traded Horvat in a year or two ? Similar sIze, game (both have clutch abilities and leadership qualities) and stats. Probably a lot more then we paid for JT Miller, I’ve heard he’s worth a number one RHD many times on the CDC. We cant build a team just through the draft, just ask EDM and they had what five first overalls? If Bennings done for now then we know he’s steering the boat towards a modest improvement but likely another lottery ticket next season. If he continues and switches his attention to our defense next then we know he’s working towards improving our team at an accelerated rate now, to take the most advantage he can during Hughes, EP, Boesers and Horvats second contract window as that’s when he will have the most cap space with this core. Wait three years from now sure we will continue to have a steady stream of quality guys coming in but we’d also not be creating the best environment for them to succeed ala EDM and wasting some of their early prime etc. Like your comments on what Horvat must think about this....he’s going to take a lot of pressure off the entire top six and the team for that matter. For now I’d like to see him on the LW to help or first line...sure every guy on the team is stoked too. Once Podz arrives our top six will be sick...somehow Benning did it one more time, and this time at 10th. A possession wizard as he “gets you” if you have the puck either takes it away or forces a bad play on their part. One source called him a “lion” because of how he plays the game. Our top six is going to be very, very difficult to play against in a couple years. Fear and upset has turned to excitement for this fan over the trade, don’t think this will do anything but help the team make the next step, keeps the cap structure in great shape too. 3 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Excellent post IB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: If you say so... ...I think your values are a little off pal. But keep trying and I’m sure you’ll begin to understand Nah, fellers on this site seem to think everyone is lining up to give us top 6 forwards and top 4 d-men for guys like Granlund and Schaller. WAAH NOT OUR 1ST ROUNDER TWO YEARS FROM NOW 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, IBatch said: Great post. Got to admit I was in shock when I heard the trade and it took some time and some research for it to soak it. Don’t see JT Miller a lot so for a lot us including me he’s a bit of an unknown. Knew TB coveted him when they picked him up though...seemed like a guy that would help push them over the top. And he’s helped them do that for sure. To me we’ve added another Horvat type that can move around where he’s needed....that’s worth a first and a third every time. What would we want back if we traded Horvat in a year or two ? Similar sIze, game (both have clutch abilities and leadership qualities) and stats. Probably a lot more then we paid for JT Miller, I’ve heard he’s worth a number one RHD many times on the CDC. We cant build a team just through the draft, just ask EDM and they had what five first overalls? If Bennings done for now then we know he’s steering the boat towards a modest improvement but likely another lottery ticket next season. If he continues and switches his attention to our defense next then we know he’s working towards improving our team at an accelerated rate now, to take the most advantage he can during Hughes, EP, Boesers and Horvats second contract window as that’s when he will have the most cap space with this core. Wait three years from now sure we will continue to have a steady stream of quality guys coming in but we’d also not be creating the best environment for them to succeed ala EDM and wasting some of their early prime etc. Like your comments on what Horvat must think about this....he’s going to take a lot of pressure off the entire top six and the team for that matter. For now I’d like to see him on the LW to help or first line...sure every guy on the team is stoked too. Once Podz arrives our top six will be sick...somehow Benning did it one more time, and this time at 10th. A possession wizard as he “gets you” if you have the puck either takes it away or forces a bad play on their part. One source called him a “lion” because of how he plays the game. Our top six is going to be very, very difficult to play against in a couple years. Fear and upset has turned to excitement for this fan over the trade, don’t think this will do anything but help the team make the next step, keeps the cap structure in great shape too. Imagine if they now lock Boeser in to a long term/reasonable hit? He might see JB's aggressive play as the aforementioned vote of confidence(in young core) & try to throw his full weight/effort behind this direction. Edler's signing too, might foster confidence/commitment from everyone to pull on the rope 110%. One thing's certain..personally maintaining a wide ****ing berth away from HFboards for the summer(at least). Those hating posers are insufferable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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