[Signing] Tyler Myers to Vancouver

[18W-40C-6W]

10 minutes ago, Bubble Man said:

 Insulation is the excuse used to justify these ridiculous contracts. Like I said, we were at the bottom for the last 4 years. How did plugging up this age gap work out for us? Every reclamation project we’ve tried has been a disaster. The only real strength we have is drafting yet Jet Black Jim refuses to play to his strengths. He gets broke over like a double barrelled shotgun every time he makes a trade. 

 

How can you even quantify the effects of these vets on our young players? It’s just absolutely nonsense. We would have been a bottom team the last 4 years with or without them. They didn’t insulate crap. They didn’t learn a god damn thing from Gagne or Grudbranson. I just can’t stand this narrative it drives me insane. 

[Dr.BRR]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Because as hard as it may be too believe, it could in fact have been worse. And in the process might have just ruined a couple of the prized kids we're counting on to actually improve.

On the topic of insulation, I do think we still need to address the toughness component in our line up. I hope that is JB's next move. Ferland could be a good option, or a guy like maroon who has put up goals when he plays with decent players. Hughes, Petey, Baer, goldy, Brock etc will have an easier time playing their game and not looking over their shoulder if they know they have support on the bench, other than Roussel who doesn't scare many people. Those runs people take on our stars because they can add up over an 82game season, and if we have playoffs goals we need guys healthy.

[Rob_Zepp]

 

[SilentSam]

53 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

If we are trading Tanev, we need to be replacing Tanev and ideally with quality. We finally boosted our defense, so why take a step back again? I'm not all too concerned about adding another forward at this juncture as we have plenty of bodies to fill the void for the time being. Sutter just doesn't have the value right now until he can put together a relatively healthy and effective season. If he stays healthy, he only makes our team better, if he's not, then he goes on LTIR and take a look at our depth (eg Gaudette).

Tanev has provided very little depth wise for the past 2 seasons..  his in and out of the line up has only broken up combinations or pushed more ice time on to Edler.. that was the step back.

With the moves we have made recently, I think he is replaced by a prospect in a 5, 6 , 7 role.. which he will be whenever he gets hurt again.. in the not too distant future.

Again it’s not really what we can get back for these 2 diminished assets.. it’s about clearing head room.

Tanev, Im quite sure will be gone by Christmas...  and perhaps Sutter as well..  I would just rather see the move sooner than later, and try to capture the attention of M Ferland while he is available.

[Bubble Man]

27 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Because as hard as it may be too believe, it could in fact have been worse. And in the process might have just ruined a couple of the prized kids we're counting on to actually improve.

If you are one of the few 19 year olds in the entire universe that is playing in the NHL. WTF is Tim Schaller going to help you with? 

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, Bubble Man said:

If you are one of the few 19 year olds in the entire universe that is playing in the NHL. WTF is Tim Schaller going to help you with? 

Show you that spots are not gifted.  Show that being a high pick is not assurance of a job and guys like Schaller will work harder than anyone to get an NHL position and so as a kid, you stop relying upon just your talent.    There are so many more things kids learn from players at the edge of in/out the NHL than they pick up from superstars.

[theo5789]

3 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Tanev has provided very little depth wise for the past 2 seasons..  his in and out of the line up has only broken up combinations or pushed more ice time on to Edler.. that was the step back.

With the moves we have made recently, I think he is replaced by a prospect in a 5, 6 , 7 role.. which he will be whenever he gets hurt again.. in the not too distant future.

Again it’s not really what we can get back for these 2 diminished assets.. it’s about clearing head room.

Tanev, Im quite sure will be gone by Christmas...  and perhaps Sutter as well..  I would just rather see the move sooner than later, and try to capture the attention of M Ferland while he is available.

When Tanev was hurt prior, we didn't have the depth to replace him and Stecher took on a lot more and performed well. Now we have Myers who is primed for a bigger role here which could ease the workload on Tanev and maybe mitigating his injury issues somewhat. Having Tanev in the lineup is better than without and we don't have the RD youth ready for the jump. We could push Benn over to the right for a young LD to jump up but at this juncture, it is only weakening the depth on the left side to do so. I'm not saying we don't trade Tanev, but I am saying that he needs to be replaced as a "healthy" Tanev. I just don't think dumping him without properly replacing him is really beneficial to the team right now.

 

As for Sutter, I personally wouldn't give up a 2nd or 3rd for him. Not sure I would even take him on with his injury status and remaining term on his contract. He's currently at the point where we likely need to add a sweetener to unload his full cap. I think he needs to play a stretch and be effective before teams start answering calls that involve him in a deal. At that point though, he might be effective enough for us that we may not be ready to move him just yet either.

 

It's interesting that you want to dump these "diminished assets" and then add a guy who's had a couple of concussion issues last season alone and has only capped out at 41 points. I think if Ferland was willing to go for a 2 or 3 year deal, some team may have bit already. Rumour was he was looking for a Tom Wilson type deal and he may still be which is why he remains unsigned.

[Kanukfanatic]

1 hour ago, Dr.BRR said:

On the topic of insulation, I do think we still need to address the toughness component in our line up. I hope that is JB's next move. Ferland could be a good option, or a guy like maroon who has put up goals when he plays with decent players. Hughes, Petey, Baer, goldy, Brock etc will have an easier time playing their game and not looking over their shoulder if they know they have support on the bench, other than Roussel who doesn't scare many people. Those runs people take on our stars because they can add up over an 82game season, and if we have playoffs goals we need guys healthy.

I see you cherry picked our smaller or less aggressive guys.

 

Why didn't you mention 218 lb JT Miller, 215 lb Horvat, Brock is 205 or so and doesn't need any protection or insulation as you call it.

We also have 205 Pearson, Roussel to agitate the crap out of the other team (although you downplay him), Sutter who can handle himself, Virtanen at 220, Beagle who can handle himself, Edler at 215, Myers at 230, Benn at 205.

 

I wouldn't mind one more big guy but the team is already way bigger and tougher than it was last year or it has been for a number of years.

[Bubble Man]

52 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Show you that spots are not gifted.  Show that being a high pick is not assurance of a job and guys like Schaller will work harder than anyone to get an NHL position and so as a kid, you stop relying upon just your talent.    There are so many more things kids learn from players at the edge of in/out the NHL than they pick up from superstars.

I’m just grasping straws and running on fumes at this point. I won’t even lie. 

[gameburn]

1 hour ago, Bubble Man said:

 Insulation is the excuse used to justify these ridiculous contracts. Like I said, we were at the bottom for the last 4 years. How did plugging up this age gap work out for us? Every reclamation project we’ve tried has been a disaster. The only real strength we have is drafting yet Jet Black Jim refuses to play to his strengths. He gets broke over like a double barrelled shotgun every time he makes a trade. 

 

How can you even quantify the effects of these vets on our young players? It’s just absolutely nonsense. We would have been a bottom team the last 4 years with or without them. They didn’t insulate crap. They didn’t learn a god damn thing from Gagne or Grudbranson. I just can’t stand this narrative it drives me insane. 

The difference between trading for a Pearson or scooping up an UFA like Myers (both under 30, one a RHD) at this point in the rebuild and the crazy stuff involving Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, and Gagne is huge.  We hope.

 

I agree with you about "the vet presence."  And how the fragile babes are said to need insulating. Absolute nonsense.  All the young guys see are complacent overpaid players who they are probably expected to listen to... when they know that these vets really aren't that great. I can't even imagine what it was like to see Gagne and Eriksson working the pp when you haven't had much of a chance at it yet yourself (Horvat was often used after these guys a few years back.)  I wonder about Stecher too: he carried the team last year when our "vaunted vets" Edler and Tanev fell down again because of injury.  Hopefully Myers and Benn won't crumble the way Edler and Tanev do.  But there is a real risk that Hughes and Stecher (and maybe Myers) will play a lot of minutes due to the relative age and fragility of Tanev and Edler, and perhaps Benn as well.  And the forwards too: Sutter, Beagle and Roussel were injured a fair bit last year (Sutter more than most, as usual). 

 

I really wonder sometimes if it isn't the younger players who are insulating the older players. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by gameburn

[J.I.A.H.N]

Despite what Bubble Head said

 

I think we are collectively better, and Myers as part of this will be a solid addition. I think that some people misunderstand that we are not expecting Myers to be a 1/2 type

dman, but a 3/4. I think he can be that. 

 

I will say this though, I think playing Tanev and Sutter  in lesser roles, will allow them to stay healthier……...one would hope! 

 

I think we build their value up, and move them later at the TDL(Early January) take what you get, and hold the money until next UFA season, as we will have a better idea how much the cap will be, and who is up for 2020 UFA.

 

If we want a Ferland type so bad, play McEwen a regular shift and live with it when necessary…….

 

As for Bubble Head...…...he seems to have an anger issue, maybe he has lost his way from the HF Boards????

[J.I.A.H.N]

19 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

I see you cherry picked our smaller or less aggressive guys.

 

Why didn't you mention 218 lb JT Miller, 215 lb Horvat, Brock is 205 or so and doesn't need any protection or insulation as you call it.

We also have 205 Pearson, Roussel to agitate the crap out of the other team (although you downplay him), Sutter who can handle himself, Virtanen at 220, Beagle who can handle himself, Edler at 215, Myers at 230, Benn at 205.

 

I wouldn't mind one more big guy but the team is already way bigger and tougher than it was last year or it has been for a number of years.

PSST!...……………..McEwen!

[Bubble Man]

5 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Despite what Bubble Head said

 

I think we are collectively better, and Myers as part of this will be a solid addition. I think that some people misunderstand that we are not expecting Myers to be a 1/2 type

dman, but a 3/4. I think he can be that. 

 

I will say this though, I think playing Tanev and Sutter  in lesser roles, will allow them to stay healthier……...one would hope! 

 

I think we build their value up, and move them later at the TDL(Early January) take what you get, and hold the money until next UFA season, as we will have a better idea how much the cap will be, and who is up for 2020 UFA.

 

If we want a Ferland type so bad, play McEwen a regular shift and live with it when necessary…….

 

As for Bubble Head...…...he seems to have an anger issue, maybe he has lost his way from the HF Boards????

Lol, when has Benning ever built up the value of anything to trade at the deadline. He doesn’t think that far in advance. There are a lot of things I love about this management group and the types of players they have been drafting. I just wish someone would hit JB over the head June 30th, tie him up and hold him hostage till all the bad contracts are safely signed and away from our roster. 

[SilentSam]

3 hours ago, theo5789 said:

When Tanev was hurt prior, we didn't have the depth to replace him and Stecher took on a lot more and performed well. Now we have Myers who is primed for a bigger role here which could ease the workload on Tanev and maybe mitigating his injury issues somewhat. Having Tanev in the lineup is better than without and we don't have the RD youth ready for the jump. We could push Benn over to the right for a young LD to jump up but at this juncture, it is only weakening the depth on the left side to do so. I'm not saying we don't trade Tanev, but I am saying that he needs to be replaced as a "healthy" Tanev. I just don't think dumping him without properly replacing him is really beneficial to the team right now.

 

As for Sutter, I personally wouldn't give up a 2nd or 3rd for him. Not sure I would even take him on with his injury status and remaining term on his contract. He's currently at the point where we likely need to add a sweetener to unload his full cap. I think he needs to play a stretch and be effective before teams start answering calls that involve him in a deal. At that point though, he might be effective enough for us that we may not be ready to move him just yet either.

 

It's interesting that you want to dump these "diminished assets" and then add a guy who's had a couple of concussion issues last season alone and has only capped out at 41 points. I think if Ferland was willing to go for a 2 or 3 year deal, some team may have bit already. Rumour was he was looking for a Tom Wilson type deal and he may still be which is why he remains unsigned.

Sutter in his 11 NHL seasons looks to be weaker than Ferland in his 5 NHL seasons..  

Ferland’s  “capped out” (as you put it)  41 points in 71 games was followed by 40pts in 70 games..  

Sutter posted one 40 pt season moons ago with the Penguins..  a couple of low 30’s pt season, then diminishing into dust here.  

Ferlands “concussion issues” haven’t stopped him from putting up 4 70+ seasons GPlayed in a row since his rookie season.. not bad for the type of physical game player he is compared to the 20lb lighter Sutter

Sutters last 4 seasons GPlayed 20. 81. 61. 26.

 

I guess it’s just disappointing to me to have players taking up good Capspace and only playing half to 20% of the season.. must be hairpulling for a Coach to try and create symmetry with lines, and having to put prospects in situations not where you would really want to for their growth.

 

Tanev has been targeted for seasons as a light bodied D man who takes hits and breaks down for it.. it will continue. 

Like I was suggesting , even if they are both healthy, I would let them go for something “soft” ..for the sake of the Capspace alone.

Its stronger dependable bodies that take you further.

 

I also heard that Ferland might be looking for the “term type” contract..  

but the league League is changing rapidly.. Contracts offering youth being paid more money over shorter term will prevail.. this league will rarely have players signed over the age of 35 soon.

The abundance of young NHL ready talent is a wave that won’t be stopped.

Edited July 5, 2019 by SilentSam

[tas]

7 hours ago, gameburn said:

The difference between trading for a Pearson or scooping up an UFA like Myers (both under 30, one a RHD) at this point in the rebuild and the crazy stuff involving Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, and Gagne is huge.  We hope.

 

I agree with you about "the vet presence."  And how the fragile babes are said to need insulating. Absolute nonsense.  All the young guys see are complacent overpaid players who they are probably expected to listen to... when they know that these vets really aren't that great. I can't even imagine what it was like to see Gagne and Eriksson working the pp when you haven't had much of a chance at it yet yourself (Horvat was often used after these guys a few years back.)  I wonder about Stecher too: he carried the team last year when our "vaunted vets" Edler and Tanev fell down again because of injury.  Hopefully Myers and Benn won't crumble the way Edler and Tanev do.  But there is a real risk that Hughes and Stecher (and maybe Myers) will play a lot of minutes due to the relative age and fragility of Tanev and Edler, and perhaps Benn as well.  And the forwards too: Sutter, Beagle and Roussel were injured a fair bit last year (Sutter more than most, as usual). 

 

I really wonder sometimes if it isn't the younger players who are insulating the older players. 

the veteran presence isn't really about results on the stat sheet, it's about establishing work habits in practice and the gym and guiding young celebrity millionaire jocks to be professionals away from the arena as well.

 

you can tell the young guys on the team revere edler by the way they talk about him. it's impossible to know for sure the dynamics behind the scenes, but there's a lot more to it than in-game performance. 

[PhillipBlunt]

8 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

I see you cherry picked our smaller or less aggressive guys.

 

Why didn't you mention 218 lb JT Miller, 215 lb Horvat, Brock is 205 or so and doesn't need any protection or insulation as you call it.

We also have 205 Pearson, Roussel to agitate the crap out of the other team (although you downplay him), Sutter who can handle himself, Virtanen at 220, Beagle who can handle himself, Edler at 215, Myers at 230, Benn at 205.

 

I wouldn't mind one more big guy but the team is already way bigger and tougher than it was last year or it has been for a number of years.

[theo5789]

5 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Sutter in his 11 NHL seasons looks to be weaker than Ferland in his 5 NHL seasons..  

Ferland’s  “capped out” (as you put it)  41 points in 71 games was followed by 40pts in 70 games..  

Sutter posted one 40 pt season moons ago with the Penguins..  a couple of low 30’s pt season, then diminishing into dust here.  

Ferlands “concussion issues” haven’t stopped him from putting up 4 70+ seasons GPlayed in a row since his rookie season.. not bad for the type of physical game player he is compared to the 20lb lighter Sutter

Sutters last 4 seasons GPlayed 20. 81. 61. 26.

 

I guess it’s just disappointing to me to have players taking up good Capspace and only playing half to 20% of the season.. must be hairpulling for a Coach to try and create symmetry with lines, and having to put prospects in situations not where you would really want to for their growth.

 

Tanev has been targeted for seasons as a light bodied D man who takes hits and breaks down for it.. it will continue. 

Like I was suggesting , even if they are both healthy, I would let them go for something “soft” ..for the sake of the Capspace alone.

Its stronger dependable bodies that take you further.

 

I also heard that Ferland might be looking for the “term type” contract..  

but the league League is changing rapidly.. Contracts offering youth being paid more money over shorter term will prevail.. this league will rarely have players signed over the age of 35 soon.

The abundance of young NHL ready talent is a wave that won’t be stopped.

Sutter and Ferland aren't really comparables as players though. Sutter is a center which is a more premium position. His main focus throughout his career has mainly been as a defensive center, so for him to get 30-40 points while trying to shut down the top opposition is more impressive than a player getting top 6 minutes and maxing out at around the same offensive numbers. Now I get that Ferland adds the physicality which is something of value, so it's not that I'm opposed to adding him, but it's more about what we have to move to bring him in and I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle.

 

I'm not opposed to moving Sutter, I just can't see many teams interested at this point unless it's a swap of cap not giving us picks. We are not the only ones that see his injury issues of late, so if you were on the other end of things, would you give up a 2nd or 3rd for him? It's too much risk for the same reasons that you presented as to why you don't want him here.

 

Similarly for Tanev with the injury concerns, but Tanev seems to make a significant difference when he's in the lineup. And while he is often out of the lineup, you still need to replace that quality when he is in the lineup otherwise it's a step backwards. I have to believe we could get more out of Tanev simply with the addition of Myers who could take on more minutes unlike players we've had seasons before. So to get a Tanev that looks effective, it'll only make his value greater to teams and if he can be healthy (I know it's a risk) at the trade deadline, then that's when his value is greatest. If we can find the right deal now to move him, I'm okay with that, but hopefully it means we have a replacement in store and not eating up all that cap in a position of less need.

 

There is a trend that youth is taking over, so why restrict ourselves with more contracts with term which is likely what Ferland wants. We could simply keep Tanev and Sutter who will be expiring sooner to allow the youth to take over and if their injury issues continue, it simply allows youth to get more games without the pressure of taking a full time spot immediately and can develop that way.

[gameburn]

1 hour ago, tas said:

the veteran presence isn't really about results on the stat sheet, it's about establishing work habits in practice and the gym and guiding young celebrity millionaire jocks to be professionals away from the arena as well.

 

you can tell the young guys on the team revere edler by the way they talk about him. it's impossible to know for sure the dynamics behind the scenes, but there's a lot more to it than in-game performance. 

The difference between Edler and, say, Gagne or Eriksson or Beagle when injured... or Lucic?… I hope there is a difference, but at some point the difference between an older guy who leads with his play, and an older guy who is standing in your way must get pretty fine.  Establishing discipline in practice and on the road probably is critical to making an athlete what they should be, I agree.  But most sports don't require other athletes to inspire this, usually the coaches and the demands of their sport are enough -- think of all the individual sports like Golf and Track and Field, figure skating, even Baseball (an individual sport with the veneer of a team sport).  I suspect that this whole thing is a myth.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

 

 

Insanity people questioning Tyler Myers wether he is a solid number 5 or 4.  

 

2010 season top pairing dman on a playoff team (number 1 dman)

2011 season top pairing dman on a playoff team (number 1 dman)

side note 2010 and 2011 sabres were awesome regular season teams,

2012 eason top pairing dman non playoff team

2013 season top pairing dman non playoff team

2014 season top pairing dman non playoff team

2015 season top pairing dman on both sabres and jets team. (Jets made playoffs) Was jets top pairing dman (number 1 dman)

2016 season 2nd pairing dman non playoff team.

2017 season 2nd pairing dman non playoff team

2018 season 2nd pairing dman on the 2nd best regular season playoff team. (Number 3 dman on the 2nd best team)

2019 season 2nd pairings dman on a top 10 team in the nhl.

 

(Source is nhl stats year to year players average time on ice)

 

 

So What in the devils name is he a solid number 4 Or an elite bottom pairing  Dman, did sportsnet day he’s the worst signing ?

gimme a damn break.  Tyler Myers have been a top pairing dman from his rookie season on and have never once played any season as a bottom pairing.   Idiots will say well he’s only a top 4 on a bad team, but on a real good team he’s a bottom pairing? He was a top 4 on what most Canadians considered one of he stanley cup contenders!   So if he was decent enough to be a top 4 on the jets he is surely a nhl bondified top 4 dman.  And the irony is that when he was their leading minute dman his teams actually made the playoffs,  (2010 -2015)  in 2012-2014 ehrhoff lead in minutes but Myers was still 2nd in ice time.

 

And it shouldn’t be a surprise that he was a 2nd pairing dman the past 4 seasons, cause that’s what’s he is. A top 4 dman that can probably play the top pairing role as good as Tanev or edler.  Now stats aside it’s not crazy but it’s top 4 material.  If anything I think we signed a Alex edler caliber dman to our group,and it’s a welcome addition if you ask me.  

 

Are people seriously crying about this ? 5 years at 6 mill? 30 million who saw that one coming. We all thought it was 7x7.  

Myers is not a perfect dman. We know that but he is a legit top 4.

[aGENT]

11 hours ago, Bubble Man said:

If you are one of the few 19 year olds in the entire universe that is playing in the NHL. WTF is Tim Schaller going to help you with? 

I see Zepp already largely covered this. But yes, showing them how to train like pros off the ice, not to mention playing the harder defensive/PK minutes etc on the ice so they don't have to and add being one of the many lightning rods for this ^^^ exact sort of vitriol so kids don't have to.

 

Never mind that that Schaller is a pretty inconsequential ~$900k hit once likely waived and expires this year. Oooooh what a scary cap/roster impediment! 

 

And added bonus, he goes down and is a solid vet for any kids we have in the AHL and good injury depth. The horror!

Edited July 5, 2019 by aGENT