DeNiro Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, Chickenspear said: the next 4 teams per conference that were out by pts % . Van would be considered making the playoffs, so no lottery for us, unless we play and get knocked out in the play ins. Why is it per conference? In no other draft format is it broken into conference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, Chickenspear said: the next 4 teams per conference that were out by pts % . Van would be considered making the playoffs, so no lottery for us, unless we play and get knocked out in the play ins. Also can you clarify that if a team wins the lottery and the season is cancelled say in the second round, is that pick taken away and the lottery done again based on the next 8 teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenspear Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 8 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: There is always a risk of trading a top round pick for a rental. Personally, i am not for this approach unless it is designed to put a solid playoff club into Cup contention. I don't think the Canucks were in this position this year.... so i was very much against acquiring rentals this year. These kinds of decisions can really hurt the club long term. Miller had 4 years left on his contract at the time of the trade, so I wouldn't call him a rental, and I'd say he's outperforming his cap hit. Not saying going and trading 1st round picks for rentals (a-la Arizona/Hall) is the right thing to do, but at some point you're going to have to bring in some supporting pieces in order to turn the corner on the rebuild. Playoffs were the goal this year, and our top 6 needed addressing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenspear Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Why is it per conference? In no other draft format is it broken into conference... Does make some sense, based on a traditional 16 team playoff bracket. Top 8 pts % per conference make it, the other 4 would have missed in that sense. 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Also can you clarify that if a team wins the lottery and the season is cancelled say in the second round, is that pick taken away and the lottery done again based on the next 8 teams? This I'm not 100% sure on, but if they get the lottery done, then its done and set. If the playoffs get cancelled half way through, then they'd seed the remaining draft spots to the remaining teams based on pts %. Would make the most sense anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdeath Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 If they wanted it to be such a circus they should have taken the 8 losers of the Play-In round and had a quick first overall tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 On 6/26/2020 at 10:36 PM, DeNiro said: So if the season doesn’t resume we are or aren’t a playoff team? If season doesn't resume, nux should be considered as a playoff team since they were in a playoff spot at pause. So nux will lose the 1st round pick to TB, right? If true, then it is good news that a canceled playoffs would mean nux won't be in the lottery for #1. Otherwise, they will have to give TB the #1 pick. Losing the play in round vs Wild makes them a non playoff team, and so they can keep their 1st round pick in the lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Hogs & Podz said: Come on now.... They knew exactly what they were doing. It's just we as fans didn't catch on till now. If I was a Detroit or Ottawa fan, I seriously consider boycotting NHL for a good number of years. Bettman is such a weasel. 11 hours ago, NaveJoseph said: But they shouldn't have had a 24.5% chance to win. There shouldn't have been the possibility that they'd get two or even all of the top 3 picks, even if there was an infinitesimal chance of that happening. I understand the reasoning for why they did it that way, but it's skewed--if they wanted to prevent tanking, why would they allow a team to purposefully lose in the qualifying round in the hopes of getting first overall? I don't think it really crossed their minds that it could actually happen. They used the same scale as previous years where they had 15 teams in the lottery where teams 8 to 15 had a 6% to 1% chance of winning. Except they got to pool their chances to reach 24.5%. I don't think they fully realised that it increased the chances of the losing play-in teams to get 1st overall. The lottery was to bring excitement and get those 7 teams already eliminated something to look forward to. Have their fanbase engaged in discussions on who their team could pick. Keep those teams in discussion as they aren't playing. Those fans are now upset and it could turn even more fans away. The other problem they have now is that some fanbases are actively rooting against their teams. Some Vancouver fans now want the Canucks to lose but so do Wild fans. That's not the outcome the league was looking for. To get fans to watch and root for their team there needs the excitement around winning and they could have trouble creating that now. There's no fans in the stands so it's even harder to create and why bother watching if you want your team to lose. They shot themselves in the foot. The league is looking to create parity because it's more profitable if every team has a shot to win. Fanbases get disengaged if teams are stuck in the basement forever - less fans, less revenue. They are less likely to watch the game if the team coming into town is so vastly superior to their own. Why waste dollars/time to watch a loss. When the outcome of every game is uncertain there is more excitement. I think they would have preferred Detroit win the lottery. They are so far from being competitive and need help to get out of the basement - they have a new arena and there are no fans. It's not good for the league's income. The initial proposal when they were discussing holding the draft before the playoffs was to allow teams in the lottery to move up at most 4 spots. Detroit would have had a 50% chance of getting 1st overall. Edited June 28, 2020 by mll 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyHarry Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Canucks are in playoff mode so they will NOT be in the lottery. If they do lose the play-in round against the Wild then this Canucks team is not built right.....it has no grit and is too soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Must be RIGGED! :^) This outcome ensures max-interest IF there's a play-in. All 16 fanbases on edge of seats; either PO-bound, or praying to the 12.5% Gawd. & if there's no PO at all, they can attract many fan's eyes with ANOTHER draw for that coveted top pick. This league's a crony-casino! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Elliotte Friedman's 31 thoughts on lottery fallout: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-fallout-contentious-nhl-draft-lottery/ Quote It’s 2:27 a.m. Saturday and a glass of good scotch is not helping me answer tonight’s very important question: was this year’s draft lottery the best or worst in NHL history? Only in 2020 could we have to wait six weeks after it happens to find out who’s getting the first pick. As we began to tape the 31 Thoughts podcast approximately 45 minutes following the event’s conclusion, I wasn’t too worked up about it. I’m very pro-lottery, and everyone knows the rules coming in. You have to prepare for surprises, and, in the NHL, we’ve gotten used to them. Only two “favourites” (Toronto in 2016, Buffalo in 2018) have picked first in the last 10 years. A little over an hour later, as we prepared to finish the pod, I took a minute to scroll through text messages. Holy smokes, people were FURIOUS. And, if one of Edmonton, Pittsburgh or Toronto ends up with Alexis Lafreniere, people are going to be FURIOUS again. Brian Burke shared that sentiment in an Instant Analysis segment with David Amber Friday night: “Tonight, it should’ve just been the seven teams that are not in the play-in round. … Give the teams that need the most help the best players. I think this result is nothing short of a disgrace.” Detroit general manager Steve Yzerman gamely refused to complain that his Red Wings, 23 points below 30th-place Ottawa, dropped three spots. “The odds were better that the first pick went to (one of) the bottom eight than to us,” he said. Others were not as charitable, including one exec who compiled a masterful text ranting that now the eight play-in losers have better odds at getting Lafreniere than all but Detroit and Ottawa. (Some of you will feel this is not a legit beef. Trust me, however, this was an epic note that deserved mention.) Some of the anger came from teams who felt they were not given a clear answer in advance about what would happen if the season could not be finished. Apparently, it was asked on one of the GM zoom calls, and they were unsatisfied with the explanation. When I reported that the next eight non-playoff teams would be given an equal chance to win that spot, a couple of other clubs reached out to say they felt all 16 not guaranteed an “official” playoff spot deserved the opportunity. I don’t think that’s going to happen. Two good things are going to come out of this. The play-in is going to have even more meaning. (I can already hear Canucks Twitter cheering for Minnesota.) There’s going to be a massive audience for Lottery, Phase 2: Electric Boogaloo. But, I also wonder if we’re going to see changes to the format. I remember a lengthy conversation with Trevor Linden about his frustration with the lottery, that this random event has too much influence over a team’s direction. You try to have a good process, he said, and four ping-pong balls bring you riches or rip your heart out. I get that, but I’ve been a proponent of a powerful lottery since 2014-15 when Buffalo and Arizona entered an embarrassing tankathon for Connor McDavid. That featured a late-season game where Sabres fans cheered a Coyotes’ overtime win in Buffalo. In the end, neither team got McDavid, but it was awful to watch. That can’t be rewarded. Multiple wins for Edmonton and New Jersey, combined with the increasing number of “surprise” results, have led to calls for change. No one’s going to be breaking their ankles jumping off that bandwagon. And, depending on who wins the next draw, those screams will get louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 28 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said: Must be RIGGED! :^) This outcome ensures max-interest IF there's a play-in. All 16 fanbases on edge of seats; either PO-bound, or praying to the 12.5% Gawd. & if there's no PO at all, they can attract many fan's eyes with ANOTHER draw for that coveted top pick. This league's a crony-casino! You know I've always wondered. Yes, the league shows a video of drawing the balls, but they NEVER show the video of Scott Clarke matching the numbers. Perhaps Bettman tells Scott Clarke which team to announce and he just acts as if hes looking for the numbers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 This is very interesting. If the Canucks lose to the Wild, they will have a good chance at 1st overall. 12.5% has been the best odds I think they have ever gotten. Still, do not be one of those a hole tank fans. All this means is that a loss to the Wild will not sting as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs & Podz Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, mll said: I don't think it really crossed their minds that it could actually happen. They used the same scale as previous years where they had 15 teams in the lottery where teams 8 to 15 had a 6% to 1% chance of winning. Except they got to pool their chances to reach 24.5%. I don't think they fully realised that it increased the chances of the losing play-in teams to get 1st overall. The lottery was to bring excitement and get those 7 teams already eliminated something to look forward to. Have their fanbase engaged in discussions on who their team could pick. Keep those teams in discussion as they aren't playing. Those fans are now upset and it could turn even more fans away. The other problem they have now is that some fanbases are actively rooting against their teams. Some Vancouver fans now want the Canucks to lose but so do Wild fans. That's not the outcome the league was looking for. To get fans to watch and root for their team there needs the excitement around winning and they could have trouble creating that now. There's no fans in the stands so it's even harder to create and why bother watching if you want your team to lose. They shot themselves in the foot. The league is looking to create parity because it's more profitable if every team has a shot to win. Fanbases get disengaged if teams are stuck in the basement forever - less fans, less revenue. They are less likely to watch the game if the team coming into town is so vastly superior to their own. Why waste dollars/time to watch a loss. When the outcome of every game is uncertain there is more excitement. I think they would have preferred Detroit win the lottery. They are so far from being competitive and need help to get out of the basement - they have a new arena and there are no fans. It's not good for the league's income. The initial proposal when they were discussing holding the draft before the playoffs was to allow teams in the lottery to move up at most 4 spots. Detroit would have had a 50% chance of getting 1st overall. You have some well written out thoughts but to your point on parity... If the league us going for parity why would they stack the deck in favour of middling to better teams? It just throws that known theory out the window... So to speculate that maybe, somehow they didn't think about the possible 'pooling' outcome.... Wow that's just bush league embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) Draft pick Stupid Penguin Hope Edited June 28, 2020 by Gawdzukes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said: You have some well written out thoughts but to your point on parity... If the league us going for parity why would they stack the deck in favour of middling to better teams? It just throws that known theory out the window... So to speculate that maybe, somehow they didn't think about the possible 'pooling' outcome.... Wow that's just bush league embarrassing. He's a computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs & Podz Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said: He's a computer? Huh? Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said: Huh? Who? Sorry I was being dumb. Let's just kick the Wild's ass and forget about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 That Mll, he is well written but non combative. Strong info though. I appreciate the way he doesnt try to stamp an idea on a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Youi choose. A) playoff first round win B] first overall pick What do you choose.... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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