[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Vegas Golden Knights | Aug. 25, 2020 | Series tied 1-1

[73 Percent]

15 minutes ago, Vanuckles said:

Cuz he wasn't playing 

He played games vs minni and 4 vs stl  

 

All he did was get rocked.

Edited August 26, 2020 by 73 Percent

[spook007]

12 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

 

This is just gold ... absolutely magic. Wonder how TSN will spin this one.... brilliant 

[mikeyman109]

9 minutes ago, spook007 said:

This is just gold ... absolutely magic. Wonder how TSN will spin this one.... brilliant 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I doubt that NHL salaries continue to rise - at all - or even sustain.  I think the reality of both the outside market, and league revenue (and halted salary cap) will cause them to adjust/probably and drop. 

 

I'm not saying that alone will help allow the team to get these guys signed under the cap, but that, as well as the 'tradition' of high end players here taking reasonable contracts (Sedins, Edler, etc), as well as indicators like the last UFA period, where players like Myers and Ferland came in well below most people's projections - the crunch might be a bit further mitigated by factors like that.

 

This team has won a playoff series - with it's key young players at age 20,21 - while the Leafs have lost 4x in the 1st round, and have already eaten all the ELC years of their 'stars'.  Their spending of a 1st to move Marleau came in a different context imo.  The other reason I think that - the Canucks also have a fairly solid prospect pool remaining - players arriving and yet to - like Gaudette, Juolevi, Demko/Dipietro, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lind, Rathbone, Woo.... I'm not sure the Leafs can match that drafting - ie since 2014, with 45 picks outside the top 10, they have 1 drafted player in their lineup (Dermott).  The Leafs have done ok signing low cost UFAs and players from Europe, but I think they've needed more youth push to help offset cap pressure - and they haven't really produced that from within their organization.  They also haven't necessarily signed the right, low cost complements for that lineup - consistently shallow in defensive, 'bottom 6', shutdown/two way forwards, and typically light and not particularly deep on the blueline as well.  When Tavares is your hard minutes center (with the highest dzone starts on your team) in the playoffs, for two years running - I think there's something missing in their team building perspective.  "opinion" or not, there's something in the pudding that looks like proof.  So, I think the Canucks are in a better postion of asset wealth to use a future or two to move cap - and further, would do so in the context of a selectively applied, retroactive penalty that hurts the current management group and team, but had nothing to do with them - the Luongo recrap.   Additionally, the cap projections the team was working within could not have aniticipated the Covid economy. 

 

But regardless of that - I'd probably focus on trying to deal moveable contracts - and mitigate the amount of gap gains necessary with relative trade-offs - ie if you move players like Roussel for no return, there is no asset loss - he's provided valuable service - and/but moving his contract helps enable retaining a more 'foundational' player (ie Tanev or Markstrom).  Benn's contract as well - with Juolevi ready (and perhaps another D prospect) - Ferland? - Pearson/Sutter (the team has Gaudette, MacEwen, Podkolzin, Hoglander, etc) -  with the depth of assets they now have, they may be able to sustain the loss of an asset or two and still have solid organizational depth.   Also, UFAs may actually - continue - to want to come and play here - and the market will probably be deflated, with a lot of teams in tight or no position to entertain mid to upper range UFA signings.

 

So I'm not going to get too concerned up front - because I think that while they face pressure, they have good options, and will be able to relatively weigh the types of players they will need in their lineup, get enough done and have enough balance to deal with it and move forward with a good, deep team.

thats a good comp with the Leaves. Moving Kadri for an inferior C and a UFA d isn't going to get it done. I'm very happy Jim hasn't done a move like that. 

 

The math has been done, Loui really is the guy that has to go. But that is possible. If we can lock up Toffoli for under 6 mil per, which should be more than possible. that might be the best value top 6 in the leage - Miller, Bo, Toffoli, Pearson, Brock all under 6 mil would be excellent value, with Petey still on his ELC. It also makes Petey's next deal more manageable with those solid contracts in place. 

 

My gut feeling is that our 2021 1st is going to be used to move Loui, given how well this group is doing. 

 

[Maniwaki Canuck]

16 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Thing is, that activates that "type" of game and we really don't want to go to war with them.  We want to outscore them.

 

I, too, love the big responses but I also feel last night saw the GN's unravel a bit.  Unravelling often equals undisciplined and unfocused.  Plus, they're shorthanded we can exploit that.

 

 

Agreed.  Last night found the sweet spot between turning the other cheek and war.  We pushed back physically  pretty hard, without crossing the line into the kind of game that only they can win.  And it rattled and infuriated them.  They are a bully team that thrives on intimidation and momentum.  Take that away and they're beatable.  Skating, hitting and scoring first are key for us.

[mikeyman109]

9 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

thats a good comp with the Leaves. Moving Kadri for an inferior C and a UFA d isn't going to get it done. I'm very happy Jim hasn't done a move like that. 

 

The math has been done, Loui really is the guy that has to go. But that is possible. If we can lock up Toffoli for under 6 mil per, which should be more than possible. that might be the best value top 6 in the leage - Miller, Bo, Toffoli, Pearson, Brock all under 6 mil would be excellent value, with Petey still on his ELC. It also makes Petey's next deal more manageable with those solid contracts in place. 

 

My gut feeling is that our 2021 1st is going to be used to move Loui, given how well this group is doing. 

 

Given that we moved the first rounder this year for a player that has turned out to be as good as we could have drafted, i dont mind the idea of moving a pick for what would essentially be Toffoli. Id do that if it was available.

[Dixon Ward]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

This is just gold ... absolutely magic. Wonder how TSN will spin this one.... brilliant 

More importantly,  clearly to EP himself, is his playoff series winning percentage not his points.  You can clearly see that EP wants to be a winner not a star.  I'm not sure that can be said for Matthews.

[Bissurnette]

3 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

He played games vs minni and 4 vs stl  

 

All he did was get rocked.

He laid some good hits and fought a couple of times. He just helps provide size, grit & pushback much more than Gaudette and we'll need as much of that as we can get for game 3.

[Nucker 67]

Paid no attention to Reaves and he was a non-factor. I hardly noticed him. Well, there was one hit he took that dropped him, that was fun. Watching Whitecloud miss his hit on Beagle and fly into his own bench was fun too. lol  

 

The Canucks played a superb game, didn't get rattled by Vegas. they weren't intimidated. Skills were on display. Having Toffoli back changes the look of the team.

[189lb enforcers?]

41 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

you're not wrong, but you're asking for something we don't have. We don't have a Reaves. I suppose Rooster could go headhunting, but we'd lose him for the rest of the playoffs, and then we're still right back in the place where Vegas retaliates. 

 

We don't have any bone crushers. It is what it is. Petey and Hughes need to be slippery and we need to continue to keep Vegas on their heels with a 200' game. 

 

 

I know I’m not wrong... 

and I’m not so daft to imagine that we’d attempt to mirror RR or the Vegas physicality, but the Canucks could target their little skill guys, few as they are, too. 
 

A massive hit was attempted on EP and only partly connected. Massive. 
 

I expect an equal and opposite reaction from Horvat or something on Mashmello or someone like that. 
 

The PP is how we win game 3. 
Vegas is fast, so it’s not as simple as moving the puck around and hoping for an Edler-ish penalty out of Vegas. 
 

Brian Burke actually gave some great insight on this during the broadcast. 

[Maniwaki Canuck]

23 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Yesterday they said 5-7 days.

Benn is playing well enough that we shouldn't rush Myers back, so I'm good with this news.  Would be good to hit the conference final with reinforcements though!

[taskicon]

1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

This is a really negative take on it all.  Glass half empty.

 

MOST teams don't win if they don't have their "star" players and this team is built as a team.  

 

Of course the attention they attract frees others up...that's how it works.  But if they ("others") were useless, wouldn't matter that they had space...it's what they do with it.  And they did a lot last night.  Thing is, eventually other teams won't know WHO to cover because they'll all have the potential to score.  That's called a team.  

 

EP plays mind games.  That was likely his way of saying here, give it a go.  I don't think you fully understand the psychology of it all and how, when faced with bullies, it does more to show you're unafraid than to buy into their program.  

 

Of course we're all nervous.  But my good God, give credit where it's due?  They fought HARD last night...JT took a pounding out there.  But what they are showing is they're resilient and not intimidated.  You give far too much weight and credit to the BIG BAD BOYS of the league.  The goal is to win the game....our guys did that.  Handily.  Not sure why you're saying they had "no answer".  I'd pin that on Vegas.  Vegas plays one kind of game but we play(ed) another.  I don't WANT the boys to join the Reaves traveling sideshow.  

 

We also have a goaltender who makes a big difference.  It's all part of having a great "team".  

 

Worrying about the next game and setting things up to fail is more about you than them.  If they don't win another game they've given us damn good reason to be excited and optimistic about the future.  If it's not good enough, you may be looking for the wrong things.  Because to come back with conviction like they did after a blow out loss against a team touted to steamroll their way to the cup is a huge accomplishment in itself.  How about taking baby steps with them and seeing what kind of momentum that can gather?  Because we deserve to celebrate them today.  

 

It's like people are waiting for the bubble to burst so they can say "see, told you so".  While others get that it's a lot of fun to watch our team in the playoffs during a difficult time in the world and really making a name for themselves.  It's pretty special.

"That win wasn't good enough" is just so unreasonable to me.

100% agree

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

one of the reasons I'd still love to have an Eric Gudbranson in the lineup.

For sure. Guddy might have had his defensive deficits but he would keep the Knights honest. And would have maimed a few. The team still needs that. 

[Boudrias]

33 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

You're ALL OVER the map here.  I think you give yourself far too much credit for the win (they did what I stated they should) and them not nearly enough.

 

You're coming from a place of fear and I'm glad the team isn't coached by you....Green has them right where they need to be.  

 

If Vegas targets our guys and they get hurt...then it's up to the league to determine the response to that.  But we can't play worried about their game....as our coach says...they have to play their game.  

 

I know these aren't the stats you likely refer to, but please post them rather than saying it was a blowout in most categories.  I'd like proof of that so please provide a source.

  

A lucky win?  Some luck factors in, sure but it ticks me off when people don't give this group the respect in the win that they deserve.  All teams that win have a little luck on their side.   

What I remember is 2011 and '94. No doubt in my mind that Vegas will up the physical side. What the league does about it after the fact doesn't mean a lot. More worried about Hughes than EP40. I think Hughes got hurt when he took that double hit. Just because they are targeted doesn't mean that the Canuck game plan will change. They have to play their game to have any chance of winning the series.   

[grandmaster]

The Canucks have proven that when they play their A game, they can defeat any team in the NHL. Focus needs to be more inward than the other team. Our guys playing with their foot fully pressed on that gas pedal look unstoppable. 

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Edmondson and Lowery were my hopes for the past few years, but they are passing their primes soon now. Mash Manson was another guy many of us were hoping for. 
 

The way things are going, maybe toughness won’t matter as much once a few of the throwback players age-out. 
 

I think you can benchmark the lack of hate out on the ice by the civil discourse players have out there. It appears to be that they take every opportunity to smile, tap the oppositions pads and be nice out there. It doesn’t matter if it’s pregame or in a scrum, the players are casually talking to each other. This behaviour is very different from a decade ago, 

 

I think there was a slight difference in the way teams disrespected this one - when Gudbranson was here.  I don't believe the idea that 'deterrence' prevents cheap shots - the traditional enforcer was more of a response/reaction mechanism than it was preventative (if it was supposed to be preventative, it was a general fail) - but in the modern NHL, a guy like Gud was intimidating, is generally avoided and provides some backbone/confidence for team-mates to go about their business.  I doubt Vegas is quite as emboldened without Reaves in their lineup - and I have no dislike for Reaves - he hits, he chirps, and occasionally he drops his gloves - but I'd take him on my team, because he can also relatively play the game (as could Gudbranson imo).

Toughness still matters - no question about it - it  just comes in different forms - and doesn't always end with trotting out two enforcers to punch faces.  This team may not have the toughest guy on the ice (it's own arguably toughest player isnt' in the lineup, nor is it's biggest) - but it has enough team toughness, and is hard enough to play against, that it can hold its own where it needs to, and go about beating opponents in multiple different ways.

 

Always liked Lowry - Edmondson as well (although not much fit for him here) - Mayfield another guy I'd have targetted for years - but the gains in team toughness were significant overall - in spite of moving Gud - bringing in Ferland, Miller, Myers, Benn, Fanta - Toffoli and Pearson also able to handle heavy hockey/playoff hockey....They'll just have to fight through it - and in the end, I also think Pettersson is showing a huge measure of guts, determination, fearlessness, killer instinct - as have his team-mates (Hughes is also remarkably composed - and determined).  One Reaves is not going to stop that.  A few Cousins/McNabb (Smith in EP's case) types may threaten/cross the line - but I think it's important to continue to send the message that Theodore, Schmidt, Karlsson, Marchessault - these guys aren't invulnerable themselves.

 

[Maniwaki Canuck]

20 minutes ago, Green Building said:

JT bonecrushed his way through the slot and we ended up with a PP. We don't have a Reaves, but we played a decent team toughness game last night.

That's the game I saw too.  Don't know what edited version 189 lb. was watching.

[gizmo2337]

I can see a bit of a hole in Vegas game. They love to push and keep the puck in the offensive zone, but they can be exposed and vulnerable to odd man rushes the other way in the process. We did that to start the 3rd, and it was a different look. We didn't do that in the second period (win the small puck battles in the middle of the ice).

Stick with playing classy, play hard and put the puck in the net. This is the best way to get Vegas off their game. Have to keep our heads up and avoid injuries or that will be the end of the run. Also, hope coach is doing some video on those high dump in's. We need to defend against that better, and possibly do it to them the other way.

On the PP behind the net, I'd love to see Petey, flick the puck up in air and off the goalies back and in? He could pull it off, I'm sure of it! Not sure why nobody tries that anymore.

[oldnews]

9 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

thats a good comp with the Leaves. Moving Kadri for an inferior C and a UFA d isn't going to get it done. I'm very happy Jim hasn't done a move like that. 

 

The math has been done, Loui really is the guy that has to go. But that is possible. If we can lock up Toffoli for under 6 mil per, which should be more than possible. that might be the best value top 6 in the leage - Miller, Bo, Toffoli, Pearson, Brock all under 6 mil would be excellent value, with Petey still on his ELC. It also makes Petey's next deal more manageable with those solid contracts in place. 

 

My gut feeling is that our 2021 1st is going to be used to move Loui, given how well this group is doing. 

 

LE should retire.  That would be 'justice'/compensation = a fair counterpoint to being shafted for Luongo, the cap stall - and all the breaks other franchises have gotten - the archipelagos of Robidas, the allergy to equipment = the moving goalposts that coincidentally landed on penalizing the Canucks.

[mikeyman109]

10 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

I can see a bit of a hole in Vegas game. They love to push and keep the puck in the offensive zone, but they can be exposed and vulnerable to odd man rushes the other way in the process. We did that to start the 3rd, and it was a different look. We didn't do that in the second period (win the small puck battles in the middle of the ice).

Stick with playing classy, play hard and put the puck in the net. This is the best way to get Vegas off their game. Have to keep our heads up and avoid injuries or that will be the end of the run. Also, hope coach is doing some video on those high dump in's. We need to defend against that better, and possibly do it to them the other way.

On the PP behind the net, I'd love to see Petey, flick the puck up in air and off the goalies back and in? He could pull it off, I'm sure of it! Not sure why nobody tries that anymore.

Usually Petey is not behind the net on the PP. Last night was Toffoli and other games was Miller

Edited August 26, 2020 by mikeyman109