How do we keep this group together? Who stays and who goes?

[Nuxfanabroad]

11 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I just called Vancouvers young talent superstars.  Just relax. This was actually a compliment to Vancouver.  They’re an improving team and their days of drafting in the top 10 is probably behind them for awhile.  How you can take this as an attack us beyond me. 

That's presumptuous, & it's best to speak for yourself. There's no "attacking" here..just differing opinions.

 

In 4+ decades of following this team, this is the most relaxed/satisfied I have ever felt. I'm excited about the now, near & long future. Don't recall the team ever having all these angles covered.

 

It's ironic, because there's been so much consternation over JB's handiwork. Personally feel those dimwitted critics could not see the beauty in his unique design/approach.

 

When you suggest they won't be landing the big fish any more(from high picks), I feel it's partly missing the point. With JB's propensity to unearth quality throughout the rds, & potential trades to land more quality youth, strongly feel he has a system integrated/operational that will just keep replenishing.

 

But that's just one opinion. So let's all relax in the la-z-boy & watch it all play out...

[Elias Pettersson]

14 minutes ago, stawns said:

I'd like to know what happens with contracts if there's no season beyond this playoff for awhile.........do they just get pushed?  If there's a 1-2 year hiatus, perhaps LE retires.

I think the plan is to win the Cup this year and then have the league shut down for the next 2 years.  We can enjoy our Stanley Cup victory and be defending champions for 2 whole years.  And when the league starts up again in 2022 Loui will be long gone and living la vida loca in Sweden...

[EdgarM]

32 minutes ago, Bang Bang Boogie said:

Not necessarily.  If its more important to the management group to keep key pieces like Tanev, Markstrom and Toffoli together than to get a late first round pick then that's the price that might need to be paid.  I don't like giving up first round picks either but sometimes that's the price that needs to be paid to get rid of a contract like LE.

 

If not a first rounder, might have to give up a B level prospect just to get rid of Loui.

I am pretty confident in saying that the bulk of our salaries is going to be eaten up by our young talented stars for at least the next 7-8 years. So how many 1st rounders might we draft in that time and have to give away at a discount because we cannot afford to keep them. 

Probably the only thing on my wish list is a Meyers replacement in the next few years. We are good with our goalies, centers, PMD and top 6. 

This team is comprised of a great balance of the skills needed to win in the playoffs, why would we weaken that in order to keep our lottery picks that we might not be able to afford to keep anyway. 

We just have to look at Toronto and Edmonton to see what happens when you get a little too greedy with your top picks and what it does to the rest of your roster.

LE is not helping this team in the playoffs and that 6 million can go along way in solidifying and keeping what we already have. 

[Fanuck]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

It all comes down to Loui.  Get rid of him and everything else moves into place.  Francesco knows this which is why he made a phone call to Sicily last night after the game.  

 

Loui may be disappearing for awhile.  Can someone who doesn't physically show up to camp for the next two years be put on LTIR?  Asking for a friend...

If we could move on from LE for a 'reasonable' price I'm all for it, but at this point I don't see it happening since he's about as negative-value as you can find in the league. 

 

Better to look at moving two of: Sutter, Baer, Benn, Beagle or Rooster as these guys still have respectable trade value and it would have a similar(not same) effect on the cap as moving LE.  Remember, I'm not saying we don't need these guys or they each aren't contributing greatly right now, just that at this point it's more realistic than dreaming someone takes LE off our hands without gutting our pics/prospects. 

[Patel Bure]

3 hours ago, whcanuck said:

It’s really starting to look like the Canucks are going to be a legit championship contender in the next few years. They’ve hung with some very good teams in these playoffs and looked excellent in several games.
 

Obviously EP, Hughes and Horvat are essential. Are we able to keep both Toffoli and Boeser? What about guys like Pearson, Motte and Virtanen?

 

On the back end, do they wait for OJ to keep developing? How long will Edler and Tanev stay? Who should they add?

 

in net, do they pay Markstrom? He seems pretty important to the team. Demko?

 

I don’t know much about this flat salary cap and what exactly that entails. Could someone in the know please enlighten me?

People will hate me for saying this, but the only way we can keep this core together for as long as possible, is if they use Podkolzin as a sweetener to get rid of Eriksson and Ferland.   You may even have to use Podkolzin and Hoglander in separate deals to clear as many bad contracts as possible.

 

(by the way, I do NOT propose that we do the above).   

[86Viking]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

horrible, horrible idea

I dont like the thought of it either, but we could really use that 6m in cap space, to keep and improve our team. Maybe we can move Sutter this off season with his decent playoff showing? Trade Sven for a conditional pick, likely with retention?

[86Viking]

2 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

People will hate me for saying this, but the only way we can keep this core together for as long as possible, is if they use Podkolzin as a sweetener to get rid of Ferland. 

Ferland can go on LTIR for 3 more seasons ala Lupul, Clarkson, Hossa etc

[Patel Bure]

34 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

Ferland can go on LTIR for 3 more seasons ala Lupul, Clarkson, Hossa etc

True, but I think in order to really keep this core together (as early as this off season), the Canucks would have to find a way to get rid of the Eriksson contract in its entirety.   I’m not sure if Demko or Virtanen by themselves would be enough of a sweetener.  

[Phil_314]

I think this team is in the early stages of acquiring a Blackhawks-type critical mass, both in roster guys and young guns on ELC's.  Eventually, just like Chicago's been doing, it'll revolve around Hughes ($8-10), Pete ($8-$10), Bo ($5.5) and I'd also include Miller ($5.25) and Markstrom ($6 mil) (or Demko if they're so trusting in him in the near future, as the expansion could change things and as he matures).  That's equivalent to Keith, Kane, Toews, Saad and Crawford in the current regime.

As mentioned, it'll be flipping luxury veteran wings and secondary guys out for picks, developing top end guys on ELC's and inserting them into the lineup (eventually, hopefully Hoglander/ Podkolzin/ Lind/ Juolevi/ Gadjovich? for Pearson/ Toffoli/ Roussel/ Edler/ Loui).  For shipping out vets like Sutter, Loui, Roussel, Beagle and Sven, would probably take some combination of sweeteners and finding teams that need to patch gaps (e.g. Loui to Ottawa to help cheapo Melnyk reach the cap, and maybe Sutter and Virtanen to Buffalo to provide two-way depth for someone like Colin Miller).  Regardless of how it happens, I just trust Benning that he can make it happen, and it should be exciting times ahead.      

Edited August 27, 2020 by Phil_314

[Nathancanuck]

Markstrom 6 years x 5.75 + NMC first 3 years of the contract (saves him from the expansion), then 15 team M-NTC for the rest of the contract

Tanev 5 years x 5.25 + Full NTC 

Toffoli 6 years x 5.25 + NMC first 2-3 years of contract

Virtanen 1 year x 1.75

 

How do these contracts look? Considering they want to be in Vancouver with a great team..

..and considering the flat cap situation.. they could sign for that money and term?

 

Need to get rid of Baertschi.. trade him with a b-prospect or late pick for anything that doesn't eat cap

Ferland LTIR I guess or maybe retire.. either way I guess we don't have to worry about his cap

Leivo, Domingue to UFA

That should almost give us enough cap to sign Motte, Gaudette, MacEwan, Stecher and maybe Fantenberg

We can still trade Benn or Roussel if we have to..

 

And then just offer Seattle our 2021 first (if we made playoffs) to pick Loui Eriksson at the expansion draft..

would save us 6 million cap and a valuable player like Demko.. If they take it, it's worth the price and if not

we are likely going to lose Demko or a Dman we don't want to lose and still have to figure out how to get rid

of Loui.

 

Pettersson 8 years x 9.00 (NTC if he wants it but he doesn't need it anyway haha)

Hughes 2 years x 8.50 (higher salary in 2nd year which guarantees him 10+ in the next contract)

[runtzguy]

10 hours ago, Fanuck said:

So you want the team to have lost 2 firsts and a 2nd over the next two drafts in an era where draft capital is the most important asset a team can have? 

Yes

[73 Percent]

We'll have multiple windows like the penguins and hawks did, so long as we keep the core togather. 

 

Petey 

Horvat

hughes

 

For sure

 

Miller

Boes

Toffoli

 

Maybe

 

One of marky/demko 

[J.I.A.H.N]

23 hours ago, qwijibo said:

That’s unrealistic. Not only is the draft a roll of the dice. But Vancouvers young stars were all top 10 picks (with the exception of Boeser). As the team improves the number of high end prospects coming through the system will decrease.  You’ll still get the odd gem, but by in large Vancouver has probably picked it last superstar for quite awhile. 

The thing is Q

The Canucks are basically full up on the top 2 lines of young stars........

With Podkolzin looking so complete, it looks like we will be fine with RW

meaning that, it is only LW where there might need to be a replacement in 5 years

 

So, then you are looking at the 3rd line

where we have Hoglander Gaudette Virtanen

all with a very strong possibility of being very good

 

which leaves McEwen and Lind/Jasek on the 4th line

Now I am not advocating that there will not be some UFA's

but they will be lower end UFA's on the 3rd and 4th

 

So, it becomes a question of what do we really have on defense....long term

that is where the questions are!

Now, I believe we have 3 contenders to go along with Hughes

Juolevi, Rathbone, and Woo

Again, that then becomes who we fill in with for the 5.6. 7 with UFA's

Unless Brisebois and Rafferty show well

 

That then puts us in a position of drafting in the 18 to 24 spot

Most likely.........

 

The good drafting clubs have picked up some nice pieces there...

Including our own Brock Boeser (#23)

Brandon Carlo (#37), Alexander Alexeyev (#31), Erik Cernak (#43), 

Our own Jack Rathbone (#95) Lind (#33), Woo (#37)

 

I am not really cherry picking either........

As Nux says, sit back and enjoy the ride

I could see Virtanen and Demko gone this summer

Which is not my choice, but they may be casualties

 

My biggest curiousity is who of the current prospects not named

will rise up to be solid prospects?

And who of the 2019-2020 picks in the 3rd and later will rise

 

I am not worried in the least about next years draft

 

And here is the kicker, I believe

If Stecher keeps playing the way he is, he will return a higher pick than expected

Because, we just can not keep him and risk him being a 2.5 to 3.0  million cost

 

So sit back and enjoy

 

I also do not see Pettersson or Hughes getting 8.00 million dollar deals

more like 6.5 - 7;0 Million bridge deals, more to the 6.5 side

 

 

[86Viking]

12 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

 

I also do not see Pettersson or Hughes getting 8.00 million dollar deals

more like 6.5 - 7;0 Million bridge deals, more to the 6.5 side

 

 

If we sign them to a short term bridge deal their cap hits won't be enormous, but when the cap jumps back up and they need deals they will be at getting paid huge if they continue producing like they are now. Personally, they are both young and I would lock them up for 8 year deals. As time goes on, cap hits always go up and we will have other players to sign down the road.

 

It is a risk, but these 2 guys are elite so might as well sign them long term now vs later. Imagine if Colorado signed Mackinnon for only 2 years then he has his huge breakout...his cap hit would be double what it is now!

[J.I.A.H.N]

Now, that I am thinking about the draft

I think it is more than that.......

 

IMO, Benning has to make this a destination for UFA's

meaning a solid development program

So that college UFA's also think of coming here

 

That along with the next 4 years of drafting will be pivotal

in moving this team forward long term

 

So.

2019-2020 draft.........3, 4, 5, 6, 7 plus any UFA college

2020 - 2021 draft......1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 plus any UFA college

2021 -2022 draft.......1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 plus any UFA college

2022 -2023 draft.......1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 plus any UFA college

 

My question is if only 1 of these players from each draft make it.........where will they play in our "YOUNG" lineup?

 

That is a pretty minimal expectation, really!

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

5 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

If we sign them to a short term bridge deal their cap hits won't be enormous, but when the cap jumps back up and they need deals they will be at getting paid huge if they continue producing like they are now. Personally, they are both young and I would lock them up for 8 year deals. As time goes on, cap hits always go up and we will have other players to sign down the road.

 

It is a risk, but these 2 guys are elite so might as well sign them long term now vs later. Imagine if Colorado signed Mackinnon for only 2 years then he has his huge breakout...his cap hit would be double what it is now!

I think you are totally right, "IF" you can find the money......I just don't think you can find the money......Maybe????

 

I think when you look at Pettersson and Hughes, I think you have to say they are stars, but not elite stars at this junction.....so it is a projection

and one you could be wrong as much as right.

Edited August 27, 2020 by janisahockeynut

[BPA]

1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

Now, that I am thinking about the draft

I think it is more than that.......

 

IMO, Benning has to make this a destination for UFA's

meaning a solid development program

So that college UFA's also think of coming here

 

That along with the next 4 years of drafting will be pivotal

in moving this team forward long term

 

So.

2019-2020 draft.........3, 4, 5, 6, 7 plus any UFA college

2020 - 2021 draft......1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 plus any UFA college

2021 -2022 draft.......1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 plus any UFA college

2022 -2023 draft.......1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 plus any UFA college

 

My question is if only 1 of these players from each draft make it.........where will they play in our "YOUNG" lineup?

 

That is a pretty minimal expectation, really!

 

 

Yep.  To be sustainable, Nucks need to draft and develop well.  So that we can get a continual crop of young players on ELC to make things work in the salary cap.

[qwijibo]

13 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

The thing is Q

The Canucks are basically full up on the top 2 lines of young stars........

With Podkolzin looking so complete, it looks like we will be fine with RW

meaning that, it is only LW where there might need to be a replacement in 5 years

 

So, then you are looking at the 3rd line

where we have Hoglander Gaudette Virtanen

all with a very strong possibility of being very good

 

which leaves McEwen and Lind/Jasek on the 4th line

Now I am not advocating that there will not be some UFA's

but they will be lower end UFA's on the 3rd and 4th

 

So, it becomes a question of what do we really have on defense....long term

that is where the questions are!

Now, I believe we have 3 contenders to go along with Hughes

Juolevi, Rathbone, and Woo

Again, that then becomes who we fill in with for the 5.6. 7 with UFA's

Unless Brisebois and Rafferty show well

 

That then puts us in a position of drafting in the 18 to 24 spot

Most likely.........

 

The good drafting clubs have picked up some nice pieces there...

Including our own Brock Boeser (#23)

Brandon Carlo (#37), Alexander Alexeyev (#31), Erik Cernak (#43), 

Our own Jack Rathbone (#95) Lind (#33), Woo (#37)

 

I am not really cherry picking either........

As Nux says, sit back and enjoy the ride

I could see Virtanen and Demko gone this summer

Which is not my choice, but they may be casualties

 

My biggest curiousity is who of the current prospects not named

will rise up to be solid prospects?

And who of the 2019-2020 picks in the 3rd and later will rise

 

I am not worried in the least about next years draft

 

And here is the kicker, I believe

If Stecher keeps playing the way he is, he will return a higher pick than expected

Because, we just can not keep him and risk him being a 2.5 to 3.0  million cost

 

So sit back and enjoy

 

I also do not see Pettersson or Hughes getting 8.00 million dollar deals

more like 6.5 - 7;0 Million bridge deals, more to the 6.5 side

 

 

Yes. There are still very good players in the pipeline.  My response was to someone who said the key was to keep drafting like they have been. My point spies to every team as they improve. Not just the Canucks.  
 

Generally speaking you get the best players in the draft in the top 10. (Horvat, Hughes and Pettersson were all top 10 picks). 
 

As any team improves their chances at picking those top 10 players disappear.  That doesn’t mean you still can’t hit a home run in the draft.  But it’s far less likely.  I did say you can still get the occasional gem.  But it’s no secrets that the chances of getting a NHL player drops off dramatically after the 1st round.  
 

Vancouver has managed to get two legit superstars in the past few years.  They probably got the best player in both of those drafts.  Now they’re moving up the standings and their opportunity to have the best chance at players like Hughes and Pettersson is pretty much past.  
 

That’s all I meant when I said it’s unrealistic to expect the team to “keep drafting like they have been”. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Yes. There are still very good players in the pipeline.  My response was to someone who said the key was to keep drafting like they have been. My point spies to every team as they improve. Not just the Canucks.  
 

Generally speaking you get the best players in the draft in the top 10. (Horvat, Hughes and Pettersson were all top 10 picks). 
 

As any team improves their chances at picking those top 10 players disappear.  That doesn’t mean you still can’t hit a home run in the draft.  But it’s far less likely.  I did say you can still get the occasional gem.  But it’s no secrets that the chances of getting a NHL player drops off dramatically after the 1st round.  
 

Vancouver has managed to get two legit superstars in the past few years.  They probably got the best player in both of those drafts.  Now they’re moving up the standings and their opportunity to have the best chance at players like Hughes and Pettersson is pretty much past.  
 

That’s all I meant when I said it’s unrealistic to expect the team to “keep drafting like they have been”. 

I quite agree with you on that

But in saying that....Vancouver will now have the opportunity to draft Defensemen

which amazingly, come form the second round just as much as the 1st....and all over it as well

I have been looking at the NYR.s and Phili and have notice that they have drafted alot of Dmen

in the last few years, and it is showing......you can never have enough Dmen in the pipeline

It is what I am hoping for......we will see!

[J.I.A.H.N]

I keep hoping that both Juolevi and Rathbone develop into top 4 defenseman, and we move Hughes to the right side

to me that would be a perfect answer to our Dmen pipeline/void