[Discussion] Arizona/OEL

[wallstreetamigo]

36 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I have a hard time believing that.  

 

We got Schmidt who is 90% as good as OEL for a 3rd round pick.  Have a hard time believing the other rumours as having anything to do with our offer. 

The only reason we got Schmidt for a 3rd though was Vegas was signing Pietrangelo and needed the cap space immediately. OEL should never have been anywhere near getting that kind of return from the Canucks. If that offer had been on the table they would have jumped all over it.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The only reason we got Schmidt for a 3rd though was Vegas was signing Pietrangelo and needed the cap space immediately. OEL should never have been anywhere near getting that kind of return from the Canucks. If that offer had been on the table they would have jumped all over it.

I realize that...  so you're saying that we didn't know that we could get Schmidt for a 3rd until the last second?  I can buy that although I don't see why Vegas wouldn't have had that deal in place beforehand. 

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, VancouverHabitant said:

I realize that...  so you're saying that we didn't know that we could get Schmidt for a 3rd until the last second?  I can buy that although I don't see why Vegas wouldn't have had that deal in place beforehand. 

Its more likely if they knew for sure and had a desl in place they would have been able to get more for Schmidt. The fact the Schmidt trade and Pietrangelo signing were announced minutes apart tells me it came together quickly.

[ShawnAntoski]

46 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I have a hard time believing that.  

 

We got Schmidt who is 90% as good as OEL for a 3rd round pick.  Have a hard time believing the other rumours as having anything to do with our offer. 

Yeah, very similar rumours when Sakic was trying to trade Barrie before he leaves for FA; until his time ran out and took a lesser valued deal with the Laffs.   

 

Imo, The Yotes will be paying a team to rid themselves of that disaster.

[JohnTavares]

3 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Reported by who? Fans on Twitter?

 

No way that Benning would have offered a 1st and a 2nd for a player that was only willing to go to two teams.

 

The fact that the trade never went through proves that’s BS. Arizona would have gladly accepted that trade.

 

 

Craig Morgan... Coyotes beat reporter that was following the situation closely.

 

No way Benning would have offered? And how would you know this? Other than the fact you’re a biased Canucks homer? I’ll trust a professional over you with regards to this.

 

Trade never went through because Coyotes wanted one of Pod, Hog or Demko. Jim likely offered that package and the Coyotes rejected. 

1st and 2nd isn’t really all that when we were including Sutter as a cap dump as well. He basically cancels out the 2nd rounder. It was basically 1st + Virtanen for OEL which might have been fair at the time, but luckily dodged a massive bullet.

[JohnTavares]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Probably more intel on what ARZ was asking, not what we were offering.

 

I'd note that there's a reason the deal didn't happen. I don't believe for a second we were offering our 1st.

You can believe whatever you want, nobody really cares.

 

It again was widely reported that the Coyotes wanted one of Hog, Pod or Demko included in the deal. Canucks said no and thus no deal was made. The first was almost definitely included as part of the deal.

[JohnTavares]

1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I have a hard time believing that.  

 

We got Schmidt who is 90% as good as OEL for a 3rd round pick.  Have a hard time believing the other rumours as having anything to do with our offer. 

Schmidt only happened because we were one of the few teams who were capable and willing to take on Schmidt’s full salary.

 

Also happened because of a flat cap world and Vegas needed to offload cap to sign the best UFA Dman in years in Pietrangelo.

 

Benning got lucky.

[grandmaster]

The more I think about this the more I would be upset if the Canucks acquired OEL.

 

1) 6 years left at 8.25

2) He is a LD. We need a RD.

3) aged and downward trajectory in production 

 

As for trading Myers or Schmidt for OEL, that doesn’t make sense either. OEL is not that much more productive (I believe Schmidt had had an off year from his usual). 
 

Schmidt: 54 games

5 goals, 10 assists, 15 points, -7

 

Myers: 55 games

6 goals, 15 assists, 21 points, -8

 

OEL: 46 games

3 goals, 21 assists, 24 points, -17

 

As for contracts,  Myers has only 3 years left at 6M while Schmidt has only 4 more years left at 5.95M.
 

Adding OEL for a longer and more expensive contract with insignificant production above Myers or Schmidt would be a mistake.

 

JB needs to look elsewhere for any improvements on the back end. 

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

likely going to Boston 

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, JohnTavares said:

You can believe whatever you want, nobody really cares.

 

It again was widely reported that the Coyotes wanted one of Hog, Pod or Demko included in the deal. Canucks said no and thus no deal was made. The first was almost definitely included as part of the deal.

It wasn't 'widely reported' the Canucks were offering that at all. I'm sure ARZ would have loved one of our top prospects and a 1st and were probably asking for them. Just as I'm sure Jim told them to go pound sand on both counts.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

15 hours ago, BlastPast said:

Hey, you just might be that one person in the history of human civilization that doesn't !

Wouldn’t that be nice! 

 

But no, I’m a white male of a certain age. My whole life I’ve been socialized to believe that anything I have to say is important and deserves to he heard, and everything I think, is correct.
 

Biases and blind spots abound, unfortunately.

 

I do my best to stay aware of this, and change things up where I can. I’d like to think I’ve been fairly successful at it.

 

But again, I’m a white male of a certain age, so while I may think I’m killing it, it’s more likely I’m failing miserably, but just can’t see it. 

 

Which is also the reason why I expect tonnes of logical errors to be made by NHL GMs and front offices. Most “hockey men” are also white males of a certain age, and enjoy privilege that makes them unlikely to examine and question their own beliefs and manners of reasoning, and thereby become subject to many biases and blind spots.

 

It’s also much easier to see these issues in other people, rather than in oneself.

 

Or, maybe it’s just easier to believe that I’m smarter/better than them (or anyone else), because I am a white male of a certain age, so that’s what I’ve been told for much of my life, especially through my formative years.  

[theo5789]

23 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Wouldn’t that be nice! 

 

But no, I’m a white male of a certain age. My whole life I’ve been socialized to believe that anything I have to say is important and deserves to he heard, and everything I think, is correct.
 

Biases and blind spots abound, unfortunately.

 

I do my best to stay aware of this, and change things up where I can. I’d like to think I’ve been fairly successful at it.

 

But again, I’m a white male of a certain age, so while I may think I’m killing it, it’s more likely I’m failing miserably, but just can’t see it. 

 

Which is also the reason why I expect tonnes of logical errors to be made by NHL GMs and front offices. Most “hockey men” are also white males of a certain age, and enjoy privilege that makes them unlikely to examine and question their own beliefs and manners of reasoning, and thereby become subject to many biases and blind spots.

 

It’s also much easier to see these issues in other people, rather than in oneself.

 

Or, maybe it’s just easier to believe that I’m smarter/better than them (or anyone else), because I am a white male of a certain age, so that’s what I’ve been told for much of my life, especially through my formative years.  

[JM_]

1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Wouldn’t that be nice! 

 

But no, I’m a white male of a certain age. My whole life I’ve been socialized to believe that anything I have to say is important and deserves to he heard, and everything I think, is correct.
 

Biases and blind spots abound, unfortunately.

 

I do my best to stay aware of this, and change things up where I can. I’d like to think I’ve been fairly successful at it.

 

But again, I’m a white male of a certain age, so while I may think I’m killing it, it’s more likely I’m failing miserably, but just can’t see it. 

 

Which is also the reason why I expect tonnes of logical errors to be made by NHL GMs and front offices. Most “hockey men” are also white males of a certain age, and enjoy privilege that makes them unlikely to examine and question their own beliefs and manners of reasoning, and thereby become subject to many biases and blind spots.

 

It’s also much easier to see these issues in other people, rather than in oneself.

 

Or, maybe it’s just easier to believe that I’m smarter/better than them (or anyone else), because I am a white male of a certain age, so that’s what I’ve been told for much of my life, especially through my formative years.  

But what if you are correct 

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, grandmaster said:

The more I think about this the more I would be upset if the Canucks acquired OEL.

 

1) 6 years left at 8.25

2) He is a LD. We need a RD.

3) aged and downward trajectory in production 

 

As for trading Myers or Schmidt for OEL, that doesn’t make sense either. OEL is not that much more productive (I believe Schmidt had had an off year from his usual). 
 

Schmidt: 54 games

5 goals, 10 assists, 15 points, -7

 

Myers: 55 games

6 goals, 15 assists, 21 points, -8

 

OEL: 46 games

3 goals, 21 assists, 24 points, -17

 

As for contracts,  Myers has only 3 years left at 6M while Schmidt has only 4 more years left at 5.95M.
 

Adding OEL for a longer and more expensive contract with insignificant production above Myers or Schmidt would be a mistake.

 

JB needs to look elsewhere for any improvements on the back end. 

Nobody knows what the deal was.   ARI wanted to move him and we just happened to be one of the couple teams he'd go to, JB did his due diligence - for all we know his line in the sand was the entire deal with 2.5 retention, bringing him right to where Schmidt's is about.   It for sure messed with his ability to do anything else for a few critical days.   Offers were made to Markstrom and Tanev that worked for the team first - why the heck would anyone think he'd go crazy over one of the worst deals out there?    LE i guess.    Worked out great for us in the end.   Schmidt > Tanev career wise, and we didn't keep to the same old same old which wasn't working well enough anyways.  

[combover]

I hope Jb doesn’t get hyper focused on trying to get another overrated over paid 30 year old and we “ run out of time” on our guys that actually matter. 
hope he learned from his blunders last summer. 

Sure hope he goes Boston and they can pay him for his 8 mill for 5 goals and a - rating. 
 

[Bertuzzipunch]

Elliotte on OEL trade talks from last year: 

I think a lot of it fell apart over Demko to be honest. I do believe Demko was what they wanted.

 

Elliotte further mentioned that the 2 teams had frustrations in dealing with each other.

 

(650)

[wallstreetamigo]

22 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Elliotte on OEL trade talks from last year: 

I think a lot of it fell apart over Demko to be honest. I do believe Demko was what they wanted.

 

Elliotte further mentioned that the 2 teams had frustrations in dealing with each other.

 

(650)

Good. Hopefully the frustrations continue.

 

No way in hell any of our top young players or prospects should be on the table for OEL and his albatross contract. Or our 9OA pick.

 

He should be a cap dump with that contract imo.

[Bertuzzipunch]

18 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Good. Hopefully the frustrations continue.

 

No way in hell any of our top young players or prospects should be on the table for OEL and his albatross contract. Or our 9OA pick.

 

He should be a cap dump with that contract imo.

Even if arizona retained 2.25 so hes a 6 mill it's not worth it anymore. Our top 4 would all be making 6 mill, doesn't seem like a good idea. Im on the no to re-signing edler but is jouveli ready to be a fulltime dman is my only issue. Not really convinced he is yet and rathbone is still only gonna be a rookie. Left side seems weak right now.

[wallstreetamigo]

6 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Even if arizona retained 2.25 so hes a 6 mill it's not worth it anymore. Our top 4 would all be making 6 mill, doesn't seem like a good idea. Im on the no to re-signing edler but is jouveli ready to be a fulltime dman is my only issue. Not really convinced he is yet and rathbone is still only gonna be a rookie. Left side seems weak right now.

I am a little optimistic about both Juolevi and Rathbone. I would like to see Juolevi with Schmidt and Rathbone with Myers. I think Shaw could do a lot with those pairings.

 

That leaves a big hole with Hughes though who, imo, needs a better partner than Hamonic beyond next season. If Hamonic signs for 1 year, I would actually be ok with at least seeing what those pairings could do under Shaw's influence. But I would prefer a younger, top level rhd to play with Hughes long term. Pre expansion might be the best opportunity to pry one of those guys out of another team at a reasonable cost.

 

There are not very many scenarios where I would want OEL. Left handed D are much easier to find too. So if there needs to be an upgrade there I think we cando better than that contract. Good player but nothing about that contract feels like anything but regret.

Edited June 23, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[86Viking]

1 hour ago, combover said:

I hope Jb doesn’t get hyper focused on trying to get another overrated over paid 30 year old and we “ run out of time” on our guys that actually matter. 
hope he learned from his blunders last summer. 

Sure hope he goes Boston and they can pay him for his 8 mill for 5 goals and a - rating. 
 

Edler made 6m with 0 goals for us...