[Discussion] Arizona/OEL

[Noseforthenet]

1 minute ago, grandmaster said:

Agreed.

 

Our defence needs a solid upgrade if we are to compete for a Cup and with Edler gone after this upcoming season, there is going to be far too many holes in the back end. Some of these negative fans just don’t get it. Not every Swede is a Louie freaking Eriksson! I’m sure OEL will be a fantastic acquisition for years to come, like all the other great Swedes this town has enjoyed over the years.
 

On a side note, I would prefer Alex Pietralengelo but a bidding war for free agents always end up being too costly and we need to dump salary via a trade. 

Also, JB's free agent history sketches me out a little bit. I don't wanna see him go after a big fish like that. Especially with there being a need to massage the salary, so to speak. There are cap issues on the way with Petey and Hughes, but there will also need to be some understanding as well because of the Pandy. Everyone has to work with it. The landscape of everything is changing and a bridge deal will surely see them both making more money in the long run and keeping them in Canucks colors into their 30s. I'm sure those kids wanna be successful too. The situation can't be compared with the Leafs or any other situation because this hasn't been dealt with before. 

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, grandmaster said:

Agreed.

 

Our defence needs a solid upgrade if we are to compete for a Cup and with Edler gone after this upcoming season, there is going to be far too many holes in the back end. Some of these negative fans just don’t get it. Not every Swede is a Louie freaking Eriksson! I’m sure OEL will be a fantastic acquisition for years to come, like all the other great Swedes this town has enjoyed over the years.
 

On a side note, I would prefer Alex Pietralengelo but a bidding war for free agents always end up being too costly and we need to dump salary via a trade. 

And may the Swedish connection draw Lundqvist into considering VAN as an ideal landing spot as a veteran backup for 2 seasons...on the cheap!

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

On 10/1/2020 at 3:48 PM, aGENT said:

Why do they 'have' to go?

 

Shift Hughes to the right. Problem solved.

 

OEL, Hughes

Edler, Myers

Benn/Juolevi, Stecher

Two leftys? I don’t know the importance of LD and RD positionally, but there would be more balance if a natural RD with a right shot was there instead.

 

If anyone, I’d go for Pietrangelo. We won’t need to give up assets via trade, he’s a better defenceman than OEL and he’s a right handed shot. 
 

 

[N4ZZY]

6 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Two leftys? I don’t know the importance of LD and RD positionally, but there would be more balance if a natural RD with a right shot was there instead.

 

If anyone, I’d go for Pietrangelo. We won’t need to give up assets via trade, he’s a better defenceman than OEL and he’s a right handed shot. 
 

 

But he’s going to cost more than OEL. 
 

how do we move out money to get him under?

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

1 hour ago, grandmaster said:

Agreed.

 

Our defence needs a solid upgrade if we are to compete for a Cup and with Edler gone after this upcoming season, there is going to be far too many holes in the back end. Some of these negative fans just don’t get it. Not every Swede is a Louie freaking Eriksson! I’m sure OEL will be a fantastic acquisition for years to come, like all the other great Swedes this town has enjoyed over the years.
 

On a side note, I would prefer Alex Pietralengelo but a bidding war for free agents always end up being too costly and we need to dump salary via a trade. 

Hindsight is key. 

This is not a matter of OEL being a Swede, it is a matter of term and money. I wouldn’t be keen on having a 8.25 million dollar 36 year old. There have been so many instances where situations like these end up biting teams in the rear end. 

 

 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

13 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

But he’s going to cost more than OEL. 
 

how do we move out money to get him under?

Well, this is all assuming GMJB has a plan and can make other deals to clear up space which he will have to do anyway if he goes for OEL.

8.25 million X 7yrs isn’t cheap.

Also, how much more exactly would Pietrangelo cost?

Let’s say a 10 million dollar contract for 5 years? I would do it. He’s right handed and I’d say a superior defenceman. We’re also saving money because it’s a shorter term. 
 

Arizona wants a first rounder + a young defensive prospect for that OEL contract too.

We’d be losing more by trying to acquire OEL.

Edited October 3, 2020 by PetterssonOrPeterson

[UKNuck96]

26 minutes ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Well, this is all assuming GMJB has a plan and can make other deals to clear up space which he will have to do anyway if he goes for OEL.

8.25 million X 7yrs isn’t cheap.

Also, how much more exactly would Pietrangelo cost?

Let’s say a 10 million dollar contract for 5 years? I would do it. He’s right handed and I’d say a superior defenceman. We’re also saving money because it’s a shorter term. 
 

Arizona wants a first rounder + a young defensive prospect for that OEL contract too.

We’d be losing more by trying to acquire OEL.

Why would he do a 5 year term when he rejected an 8 year term to stay where he was. 
 

While he would be a free agent, we would need to shift salary to be cap compliant and it would be even harder after signing as we would be over a barrel and likely have to overpay to dump.

 

OEL allows us to potentially remove some of the cap and provide a longer term upgrade.

 

while I am not a huge fan of his age with that term it’s a problem for down the road and potentially since it’s structured in a buy out friendly manner he could still hold value as a rental if his play hasn’t dropped off to much. 
 

To get Piet - we would need to shift salary first, which I cannot see us doing to the level we need.

 

im of the view that it’s one or two more years and out poorer value contracts expire so we don’t need to aggressively shed cap now, but if there is an opportunity to upgrade without hamstringing the team it’s worth considering. 
 

 

[mll]

2 hours ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Well, this is all assuming GMJB has a plan and can make other deals to clear up space which he will have to do anyway if he goes for OEL.

8.25 million X 7yrs isn’t cheap.

Also, how much more exactly would Pietrangelo cost?

Let’s say a 10 million dollar contract for 5 years? I would do it. He’s right handed and I’d say a superior defenceman. We’re also saving money because it’s a shorter term. 
 

Arizona wants a first rounder + a young defensive prospect for that OEL contract too.

We’d be losing more by trying to acquire OEL.

 

Pietrangelo was offered 8x 8M from St Louis.  He's looking for upwards of 9M on a 7 year deal.   Pietrangelo is 18 months older than OEL - born in January 1990 vs July 1991 for OEL. 

 

LeBrun believes that Vegas would be his preferred destination.  So does Friedman.  

 

[DrJockitch]

15 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

No player wants front loaded contracts right now. Escrow is going down over the years. Also I feel like if Pietrangelo could be had for 8.25 St Louis would have done a deal already.

All the rumors surrounding why he hasn't signed is that it is about structure and he wants front loaded money.  The money sounds like it has been in this ballpark.

I think that really means he want more in signing bonuses than front loaded salary. 

It is salary that goes into escrow I don't believe the signing bonuses do.

All rumours though, who knows what is true.

Not sure OEL makes a lot of sense for us but I also don't think that means Benning isn't interested.

[UKNuck96]

8 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

All the rumors surrounding why he hasn't signed is that it is about structure and he wants front loaded money.  The money sounds like it has been in this ballpark.

I think that really means he want more in signing bonuses than front loaded salary. 

It is salary that goes into escrow I don't believe the signing bonuses do.

All rumours though, who knows what is true.

Not sure OEL makes a lot of sense for us but I also don't think that means Benning isn't interested.

Signing bonuses are counted in escrow, the sounds coming out have been around the structure of it, (and the blues playing fast and lose with it) not that he wants it front loaded. I may be wrong on the front load thing but it’s only a leafs based report that talks about front loading 

Edited October 3, 2020 by UKNuck96

[Provost]

5 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Is it not a gamble though to suggest his numbers will be better in Vancouver?  The story is that he's regressing.  I'm sure his regression still leaves him at a high level but this is a massive contract for many years.  It also sets the bar for other contracts coming up.

“The” story isn’t that he is regressing.

 

”one” story is that he is has regressed from his elite days.  There is no definitive take on that.  As per links a few pages above, most scouts peg him as still a #2 D and think that with a different coach in a different system he could get back to being a #1 guy.

 

He had a subpar year for him this last season with only 30 points.  But his previous two years were 44, and 42 points.  He has consistently been a 40-50 point guy for years with no trend line showing he is in decline.  He also plays 23-24 minutes a night.
 

There is pretty equal risk/reward.  He could easily become a Norris calibre defenceman again.  He could alternatively be what he is now and regress in the last half of his deal.

 

To me he profiles as a guy who isn’t going to fall off a cliff at 30 years old.  He skates really well, has low mileage, and has been incredibly durable.  Guys who have skating as their strength aren’t the ones that tend to fade away early.  They are the ones that perform into their mid 30’s.
 

 

[Provost]

19 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

All the rumors surrounding why he hasn't signed is that it is about structure and he wants front loaded money.  The money sounds like it has been in this ballpark.

I think that really means he want more in signing bonuses than front loaded salary. 

It is salary that goes into escrow I don't believe the signing bonuses do.

All rumours though, who knows what is true.

Not sure OEL makes a lot of sense for us but I also don't think that means Benning isn't interested.

The word is that NO players want front loaded contracts right now.  It is literally the exact opposite.

Everyone wants back loaded contracts because every dollar earned later is likely worth about 20% more than dollar earned early.

 

Bonuses are subject to escrow, that doesn’t help.

[Provost]

4 hours ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Two leftys? I don’t know the importance of LD and RD positionally, but there would be more balance if a natural RD with a right shot was there instead.

 

If anyone, I’d go for Pietrangelo. We won’t need to give up assets via trade, he’s a better defenceman than OEL and he’s a right handed shot. 
 

 

I don’t know how many times this has to be said...

 

We would need to shed significant salary to free up room for Pietrangelo, so he would cost a lot of assets.  Whatever it would take to shed Eriksson and another bad contract.

 

Then we have zero guarantee of landing Pietrangelo.  We would be one of a dozen suitors for him.  He will also almost certainly be more expensive than OEL and even more risky because he is older, not as good a skater, and has had more injuries.  His point totals have only been marginally better averaged over the last few years, and he has been playing on a good St. Louis team while OEL has been playing on a defensively oriented Arizona team.  Signing Pietrangelo is the definition of buying high as he just had a career year and as a UFA teams will be bidding up his price.  Trading for OEL is the definition of buying low. He is coming off a bad year (not a string of bad years), and there is basically no competition for his services.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Provost

[Mackcanuck]

What exactly is there not to like about acquireing OEL? 

He wants to be here

 

[D-Money]

One thing Pierre Lebrun said about Pietrangelo is that he wants a contract with lots of bonuses, including at the end of the contract. Essentially, he wants to be "buyout-proof". That was the sticking point with St. Louis, and the main reason they have come to a stalemate. No doubt the team that wins the free agent bidding will have a risky contract to have in 5-6 years.

 

The thing with OEL is, there are no bonuses in the last 4 years of his contract. And the last 2 years are only $5.25M cash. So worst case scenario, if he does regress at the end of it, a buyout is very manageable.

 

[Mackcanuck]

 

[Maginator]

9 hours ago, Blömqvist said:

I see this as being the offer on our side as well. I don't think we'd be able to fit everyone else under the cap (Markstrom, Toffoli, and one of Tanev or Stecher) if the cap dump going the other way is Sutter instead of Eriksson. The only other change in our offer that I could see is Rathbone instead of Juolevi, and a slightly lower downgrade of the pick to a 2nd rounder. Further, with the rumours that there is a lot of interest in Virtanen, it only shows that a young player with his combination of size, speed, and shot is a valuable commodity -- even if he gives our fanbase a lot of headaches!

 

I'd pull the trigger on that deal to get OEL as our defense sorely needs an upgrade. We would have two elite defensemen on our top two pairings having an impact on ~45 minutes of the game, a *fresh* Alex Edler playing on the third pair and eating up the primary short-handed minutes, plus Rathbone coming up and Tryamkin waiting in the wings.
 

IMO if you have the chance to acquire a top-pairing defenseman for less than the usual market value you do it. Especially if you have your top two stars on ELCs and money coming off the books in time to re-sign them.

Thank you. This exactly. If we could retain our 1st JB would be a god.

[Maginator]

3 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said:

 

Please dont expand your list OEL!!!

[tas]

bend 'em over, Benji, and don't forget to slap that ass.

[tas]

I'm starting to get "christian ehrhoff and brad lukowich for daniel rahimi and patrick white" vibes over here.