Jim Benning Proved Me Wrong

[Hogs & Podz]

3 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

And I loved every minute of it, JT is too much of a high calibre player but I was shocked when the masses criticized the move by listening to the media AGAIN instead of actually using their own brains and actually think it through for themselves and come to a conclusion that JB hit another one over the fence and media, especially in Vancouver are out to lunch to start with but hardly the only ones...

 

That Miller trade was when team 1040 lost me.  I had been following JT since his time with the Rangers, so I knew what kind of player he was and had the potential to turn into.  I was so disappointed to listen to Sekeres and crew just spewing a bunch of very negative takes without even looking at Miller's volume of work up to the tine of the trade.  A major knee jerk reaction from TSN.  There's enough hand rigging here and on Hfboards already without stoking the fire.  Anyway I digress... Benning though not perfect, is a hell of a lot more knowledgeable and levelheaded then anyone here or local media.  I am happy with Benning for at least end of next season.  I feel Benning has learned and getting better within his areas of biggest weakness (FA signings/trades).

[Lazurus]

4 hours ago, CallAfterLife said:

When Benning first came on as GM and started making a series of slight upgrades and lateral moves via trade in Sutter, Gudbranson, Prust etc and signing expensive UFAs like Miller, Schaller, Del Zotto etc I was left unimpressed. I thought Benning's efforts were futile. I actually distinctly remember derisively laughing when I heard him say that he was doing all of this so that the young players on the team could be brought up in a "winning environment." I thought the Sedins, Edler and Tanev would have been enough to mentor the next generation.  

 

But I was wrong. 

 

Benning's willingness to improve the team, despite mixed results, guarded Edler and Tanev from becoming jaded and lazy during the team's roughest years. Unlike the vets on some perennial losing teams that just play to cash a giant paycheque, Edler and Tanev are just as hungry to win now as they were back in 2011. They may not be leading the team in points but their passion to win has really stood out. 

 

Whatever happens against Vegas, I want to salute Jim Benning and the winning environment he's built in Vancouver. The Canucks are once again Canada's best hope of bringing the Stanley Cup home. 

 

Though I will say that the biggest mistake Benning has made so far was not demanding Shea Theodore in return for Ryan Kesler. Theodore has been an absolute terror. Or at least taking on Pavel Datsyuk's contract in order to draft Jakob Chychurn, the Canucks clearly lack a #2 puck mover to back up Hughes. Here's hoping Juolevi, Rathbone or Rafferty can give the Canucks that option.

Geez, they make the playoffs through a fluke, a season that will never happen again and it is roll out the band?

I am just trying to remind you of the big picture.

The team was on the down side of the standings and sliding as other team ramped up, only 4 wins in their last 11 games.

Fine forget that, okay.

How about if you added up all the salaries they are way over the cap ceiling, sure during the playoffs that doesn't count but how lucky and fluky was it the NHL decided they could be over by that much BEFORE the playoffs started?

Here is another tidbit

Why has Benning not signed or negotiated a single contract this season? NOT ONE. Sure he signed a couple of CBA entry level deals but they are failsafe.

What is Benning going to do over the next two years when Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser will all need new deals? He has already guaranteed Boeser at least 8+mil a season, will Horvat want less? Or Hughes and Pettersson? He has already set the market with that contract. So with a flat cap he has committed the team to atleast 40 mil for 5 players,

 

Benning has to go. But that my opinion and I liked Gillis and Quinn so I am sure I am in the minority

.

[iceman64]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

why would TV ratings go up from Covid?  I highly doubt anyone who doesn't watch hockey is suddenly tuning in and I dobt many Americans are watching anything right now

The biggest audience is now tv obviously... 

[stawns]

Just now, iceman64 said:

The biggest audience is now tv obviously... 

obviously, but I doubt it's any bigger than it was before.......smaller most likely

[iceman64]

4 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

Geez, they make the playoffs through a fluke, a season that will never happen again and it is roll out the band?

I am just trying to remind you of the big picture.

The team was on the down side of the standings and sliding as other team ramped up, only 4 wins in their last 11 games.

Fine forget that, okay.

How about if you added up all the salaries they are way over the cap ceiling, sure during the playoffs that doesn't count but how lucky and fluky was it the NHL decided they could be over by that much BEFORE the playoffs started?

Here is another tidbit

Why has Benning not signed or negotiated a single contract this season? NOT ONE. Sure he signed a couple of CBA entry level deals but they are failsafe.

What is Benning going to do over the next two years when Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser will all need new deals? He has already guaranteed Boeser at least 8+mil a season, will Horvat want less? Or Hughes and Pettersson? He has already set the market with that contract. So with a flat cap he has committed the team to atleast 40 mil for 5 players,

 

Benning has to go. But that my opinion and I liked Gillis and Quinn so I am sure I am in the minority

.

A fluke? Oh yeah.. sorry I forgot this team is full of useless players, especially that totally useless Petey.. good grief.. rebuild time again! 

[iceman64]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

obviously, but I doubt it's any bigger than it was before.......smaller most likely

So what do people do more of when their at home bored as F? 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, iceman64 said:

So what do people do more of when their at home bored as F? 

go to the beach, go for a hike etc.  Non hockey fans aren't suddenly watching hockey

Edited September 2, 2020 by stawns

[Duodenum]

29 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Horrible take wadr.

 

That bottom six destroyed St Louis.

Who, btw, have a more pricey bottom six than this team - and won a Stanley Cup with it.

If you think the measure of a bottom six - particularly an absolute stud like Beagle - as merely depth scoring, you have a noob's read.

 

If you're reserving judgement, you haven't been paying attention. 

 

The cap crunch is created by a top 6 signing = LE - a bogus Luongo recrap - and a covid stalled salary cap.   Cool story though.

We've been through this oldnews, we will have to agree to disagree 

[iceman64]

There's a lot of people who still aren't going out hardly at all and it's those people I'm talking about and that still not the minority of people these days and probably will stay that way until there's a vaccine that's not going to change...

[timberz21]

1 hour ago, Duodenum said:

I was against some of the trades and signings from day 1 lol (especially trading for Gudbranson and signing Beagle at $3 mill per). If you want me to take a side now, it would basically be Miller trade and drafting good, everything else meh to bad. 

 

Nothin wrong with reserving judgement at this point for next season. This offseason has some big decisions to make. 

 

Term is a big problem as a lot of contracts aren't expiring until the year after our star player ELC contracts are up. 

 

Every year, we say that about half the teams in the league... that's just doing business in the NHL.  It's part of the reality, it's not a mistake or bad decisions.  Coveted 3rd or 4th line players don't sign cheap to go play for a rebuilding team...they might make an exception for a contender.  Would you rather he signed useless plugged at 1M$ like the Oilers or the Sabres did during their rebuilding years?  Look where those teams are now.

 

The 500k or 1M$ overpayment he made in the bottom 6, he more than made up by signing Boeser and Horvat at less than 6M and trading for Miller.  Anyways, I'd rather have an overpaid bottom 6 and an underpaid top 6, than an overpaid top 6 with plugs in the bottom 6 like the Oilers and Leafs.

 

Not going to argue they are overpaid...just saying the impact of these overpayment is relatively insignificant IMO in the whole picture....and it's not the cause for our cap crunching dilemma right now.

[King Heffy]

I have a lot of respect for someone who knows they're wrong.  I had my doubts about Benning up until he moved Hansen and Burrows, then followed up and drafted Pettersson.  At that point, it became clear that Benning had a vision and is smarter than any of us.

[VegasCanuck]

There's mistakes, but if you look around the NHL, there isn't a single GM that doesn't have a few of those. Mistakes happen sometimes in attempt to improve and hindsight is 20/20.

 

Overall, Benning has done what he came here to do. He has turned this into an exciting team that is on the verge of being a Cup contender again. We need a couple of tweaks here and there, to take this to the next level, but we have the pieces necessary to do that.

 

Looking forward to watching this group, grow and mature together.

[CallAfterLife]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

If his biggest mistake is not demanding Theodore....well, we don't know that.

He had very little leverage in that deal with Anaheim - a public list of two teams on Kesler's wave of his clause.

Bonino - alone - has been better than Kesler at all points since that deal - and returned Sutter.  McCann has become Gud and now Pearson.  Sbisa buffered the team in the expansion draft (and went on to command a huge role on Vegas' extremely deep blueline before getting injured.

That was a solid take on the Kesler retool imo.   Anaheim...themselves, lacked the foresight to retain Theodore.

 

Arizona didn't simply take on Datsyuk for Chychrun.

Arizona gave up the 20th overall pick - and the 53rd overall pick - to move up 4 spots....and ate Datsyuk in the process.  It was a horrible deal imo - a gross overpayment by Chayka.

I'm not trying to knock the Kesler trade. I know Benning was ultimately hampered by Kesler's NMC and the lack of NHL ready prospects that ultimately caused him to accept Bonino, Sbisa and the 24th OA in return. I'm just acknowledging that Theodore has been amazing in these playoffs and it's unfortunate that Benning couldn't have brought him home. 

 

Chayka wasn't exactly spending his own money though was he? The point being is that the Canucks could have use a Chychrun type to back up Hughes. It's been far too easy for Vegas to shut the Canucks offence down when Hughes is on the bench. 

 

2 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Geez, they make the playoffs through a fluke, a season that will never happen again and it is roll out the band?

I am just trying to remind you of the big picture.

The team was on the down side of the standings and sliding as other team ramped up, only 4 wins in their last 11 games.

Fine forget that, okay.

How about if you added up all the salaries they are way over the cap ceiling, sure during the playoffs that doesn't count but how lucky and fluky was it the NHL decided they could be over by that much BEFORE the playoffs started?

Here is another tidbit

Why has Benning not signed or negotiated a single contract this season? NOT ONE. Sure he signed a couple of CBA entry level deals but they are failsafe.

What is Benning going to do over the next two years when Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser will all need new deals? He has already guaranteed Boeser at least 8+mil a season, will Horvat want less? Or Hughes and Pettersson? He has already set the market with that contract. So with a flat cap he has committed the team to atleast 40 mil for 5 players,

 

Benning has to go. But that my opinion and I liked Gillis and Quinn so I am sure I am in the minority

.

I have a long list of mistakes that I think Benning has made. But it's not exactly a stretch to say that the Canucks are arguably the best team in Canada and will likely continue to be in the years ahead. 

 

Benning signed Boeser to a fair deal with the understanding that Boeser could prove that he was worth what he was initially asking for. And we don't know what Hughes and Pettersson will ask for next year. And we especially don't know what Horvat will ask for in the next 3 years. 

 

Will some hard decisions have to be made this summer? Yes. Might the team struggle in the next couple of years until a few contracts can be cleared and some young players step in under ELC's? Yes. But the Canucks don't have a long-term unmanageable cap situation. 

[CallAfterLife]

27 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I have a lot of respect for someone who knows they're wrong.  I had my doubts about Benning up until he moved Hansen and Burrows, then followed up and drafted Pettersson.  At that point, it became clear that Benning had a vision and is smarter than any of us.

Unfortunate that Dahlen and Goldobin didn't work out. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Nice to see folks coming around on JB. He just needs a couple more twerks(here & there) & this team will be soo sexy!

[CanuckleHorse]

Coaches has been his biggest failure it’s coaching that gets the best out of players and some of those players that are considered failures needed better systems to play under.

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, CanuckleHorse said:

Coaches has been his biggest failure it’s coaching that gets the best out of players and some of those players that are considered failures needed better systems to play under.

Yeah, Green definitely doesn't have the team overachieving in the playoffs.

[rekker]

I was always one to defend JB. A lot of fans are ridiculous as they want to see  .1000 percent batting average with all his moves. You win some, you lose some. Not sure what an excellent average is for an NHL GM but if you bat .300 in baseball you will be a rich man. JB has been great and has grown into his job.

[kloubek]

It takes a big man to make a thread calling himself out. Your apology is accepted.

 

To be fair, the first couple of years were dicey, and first impressions are hard to change. Many people lambasted Jim for questionable moves for vets - and we are still paying for the LE mistake. But his moves served a purpose.

 

Initially that was from ownership, wanting to keep the team a contender after the window had closed. I didn't feel that direction was the right one but abstained from forming an opinion of Jim's abilities because I knew his hands were tied.

 

When I did get on Jim's train is early into phase 2 which was to foster a stable, professional culture leading to the Sedins' retirement. Brought in vets to serve that purpose and to support our young guys who he knew would be coming soon. And while that was being formed, he restocked the prospect pool big time, from literally being 100% empty to one of the most talented young teams. Our drafting has been excellent and as our talent pool grew I knew we were well on our way.

 

Now he is going to have to try to tweak the team while maintaining the cap. Of course he needs to take care of expiring contracts first. We are almost there, but I think we still need more toughness and size for the heavy teams (perhaps Ferland and Tryamkin will be good to go?) and a better defense - preferably with a bit more scoring ability. That will be a tall order, all things considered. I believe our forward group is pretty darn good already and with reinforcements coming and more experience it will be one of the best in the league as it is.

[Petey40]

7 hours ago, peaches5 said:

What he does now going forward will tell if he should be GM or not in the future. The team definitely has glaring holes but that is to be expected now he has to fill those holes and make The Canucks a legit contender - which some GM's struggle with. Personally, with the expansion draft coming up and with how Demko held it together in a big elimination game he has to let Markstrom walk. This team is better with adding another dman or forwards than keeping Markstrom at 6m+. You can sign a veteran for cheap like Holtby to back him up. I don't see Holtby getting paid much. This team really needs better puck movers on the back end... Most of these guys are just flipping the puck out cause they can't make that tape to tape breakout pass. Letting Markstrom walk also allows you to not be forced to trade a guy like Eriksson and give up quality picks or prospects inreturn. 

 

He can still trade Demko and get quality picks back.. but Demko just looked so calm and composed I wouldn't want to let him go and the fact he is only 24.. I think it is worth the risk to give him the reins next year.

Letting Markstrom walk would be a massive mistake by Benning. He had 1 great game, that doesn’t mean he’s capable of being a starter and playing 60+ games a season yet. Does no one remember how awful our record was after Marky got hurt this year? You need 2 great goalies to be a great team, Marky and Demko is an awesome tandem. With Marky playing 52 games and Demko 30 it would be great experience for Demko to push for the starter position and not overwhelm him. I mean the kid has only played 37 career NHL games. Not resigning Markstrom is an awful idea IMO and would cripple the team next season.

 

Throw a pick at Seattle to not take Demko, tons of teams did that with Vegas so they wouldn’t take certain players. Holtby isn’t very good anymore and is incredibly streaky, I don’t think he’d be a good fit on this team.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Petey40