Should the Canucks walk away from Toffoli and Markstrom at the end of this season?

[Rush17]

Burkie on our UFA, RFA, and 2021 re-sign class. 

would recommend hearing his take of what he would do. Former gm of van.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/point-canucks-spend-money-off-season/

 

video in link

[Junkyard Dog]

3 hours ago, Drop Em said:

Motte isn't the only fast skater in the bottom 6. Roussel is also fast, and can put his speed to good use on the fore check. The problem is that you don't notice it as much because his mouth is always moving faster than his legs are.

His need isn't noticable enough to warrant giving D trouble like Motte and Virtanen. He is above Pearson/Tofu/Boeser for sure though.

[IBatch]

DIR I owe you an apology - well kind of.  Early in this thread after one Demko win I said no way / with the exception if he could take us all the way basically.   Well he did.   When he did his snowman in game 7 and they didn’t score I changed my mind - Demko quite literally got into their heads.  Best 3 consecutive games I’ve seen by a Canuck goalie ever.   Three things to consider:

 

1: Cap hit.   Is it worth 2-3 million more (depending on the back-up) to go with Markstrom?  Seriously we are talking a Benn-Beagle-Roussel-Ferland like player 

Yeah of course this could just be the extra 3 million one of EP or QHs will need too. 
 

2.  Age.   Demko gets this one 

 

3.  Seattle.   Doubt JB will re-sign JM at this point with a NMC.   Means Seattle will have their pick of one of them. 
 

Well that’s it.  Demko wins.  Markstrom thanks for the memories.  Bye bye. 

 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Rush17 said:

Burkie on our UFA, RFA, and 2021 re-sign class. 

would recommend hearing his take of what he would do. Former gm of van.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/point-canucks-spend-money-off-season/

 

video in link

Best quote “You should have cap issues if you have playoff success” paraphrased.   Troy Stetcher the odd man out for JV Motte and Stetcher - and TT is a spare part we don’t need.  Sign Markstrom (brought up a few examples of other guys that did similar things as Demko but were not close to as good as Markstrom).   Not a terrible idea. 

[King Heffy]

3 hours ago, Rush17 said:

Burkie on our UFA, RFA, and 2021 re-sign class. 

would recommend hearing his take of what he would do. Former gm of van.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/point-canucks-spend-money-off-season/

 

video in link

He was loyal to a fault to Cloutier while he was here, even when an upgrade was necessary.  Not saying I'm unhappy with Markstrom, but his age will be a concern and I would not be comfortable offering him the term that he'll be after.

[kloubek]

8 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Best quote “You should have cap issues if you have playoff success” paraphrased.   Troy Stetcher the odd man out for JV Motte and Stetcher - and TT is a spare part we don’t need.  Sign Markstrom (brought up a few examples of other guys that did similar things as Demko but were not close to as good as Markstrom).   Not a terrible idea. 

I was afraid I would yet again disagree with Burke but he said pretty much everything I've been saying on CDC over the last few days - though I hadn't thought about the impossibility of signing Stecher until someone today brought up a 3m qualifying offer. He will have to go. And that saddens me.

 

I think he hit the nail on the head in every regard. Though if Benning manages to move a contract or two, I could see TT remaining. And I also wouldn't be surprised to see us sign Edler again on the cheap for further reduced minutes after next year. Allow him to see his career through to the cup.

 

Motte absolutely stays. No way Greener lets him go.

 

Marky signs. We cannot afford to risk the future by taking a gamble on Demko. I will say again: He had 3 amazing playoff games. His regular season was unspectacular.

 

Jim is great at assessing young talent, so I'll trust what he does with Jake.

 

There just HAS to be a way to send LE to a rebuilding team. Clearing his cap would make a world of difference. He gets paid almost nothing in real dollars and his contract is almost up. Even Baer is a guy who could play a 2nd line role on a basement dweller. As he did ours. And perhaps his concussion issues are now healed up.

 

Like everyone I'm apprehensive about our cap situation but there are moves that can be made to alleviate that. Benning hasn't pulled the trigger to make it happen yet, but now that his back is against the wall, clearing bad contracts is the obvious choice imo... even if that means adding b level prospects or other sweeteners.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

Keep Toffoli and Tanev this summer let Pearson walk next year.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

7 hours ago, Rush17 said:

Burkie on our UFA, RFA, and 2021 re-sign class. 

would recommend hearing his take of what he would do. Former gm of van.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/point-canucks-spend-money-off-season/

 

video in link

lol I don't have issues with hearing from former GM's.  However Burke did a terrible job managing the goalie situations on every team he's worked for except for Anahiem which he didn't have too since Anahiem already had a goalie.

[Rush17]

18 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

lol I don't have issues with hearing from former GM's.  However Burke did a terrible job managing the goalie situations on every team he's worked for except for Anahiem which he didn't have too since Anahiem already had a goalie.

So your saying he's not a goalie guy 

 

Good thing we got Jimbo who is an expert scout :D

[Drop Em]

5 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

His need isn't noticable enough to warrant giving D trouble like Motte and Virtanen. He is above Pearson/Tofu/Boeser for sure though.

We weren't talking about his need. You were talking about speed in the bottom 6, but instead you just named a bunch of guys in Pearson/Toffoli/Boeser that aren't in the bottom 6? In any event, in our bottom 6, Roussel has good wheels, and for the most part will always get a piece of you. In the bottom 6 you need to use your speed to put pressure on the D and throw some hits and make the defense keep their head up (just like Motte does and periodically Virtanen too), and at least Roussel pretty consistently does that. 

[Rush17]

29 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

Keep Toffoli and Tanev this summer let Pearson walk next year.

ya pearson is good on the boards but Podkolzin will be ready then. Place him in the middle six on that left side and we are roaring.

[Junkyard Dog]

12 minutes ago, Drop Em said:

We weren't talking about his need. You were talking about speed in the bottom 6, but instead you just named a bunch of guys in Pearson/Toffoli/Boeser that aren't in the bottom 6? In any event, in our bottom 6, Roussel has good wheels, and for the most part will always get a piece of you. In the bottom 6 you need to use your speed to put pressure on the D and throw some hits and make the defense keep their head up (just like Motte does and periodically Virtanen too), and at least Roussel pretty consistently does that. 

I meant to say speed not need.

 

I also meant overall just pointed out a few in key positions, like the top 6. It's a team problem overall but more concerning with the D and top 6.

 

Roussel wasn't giving many people trouble with his speed. We saw vs Vegas what speed mixed in with size does. Only Motte's speed was noticeably effective out of the bottom 6 vs Vegas. If we're considering Roussel as fast it shows how problematic our speed issues are.

 

Our D-core isn't built to handle that much speed either which was an issue. We're not as fast, physical or skilled with our D. Need more skill on top of Hughes and more D that are physical presences. 

 

Perhaps I have a higher bar of what I find is faster but we've shown we need to get faster overall. We could use more dynamic skaters too, we only really got Hughes/Petey in that regard.

 

Nothing is gonna come up for it until youngsters come up or till we get cap, unless we make trades.

[khay]

11 hours ago, Rush17 said:

Burkie on our UFA, RFA, and 2021 re-sign class. 

would recommend hearing his take of what he would do. Former gm of van.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/point-canucks-spend-money-off-season/

 

video in link

Agree with his assessment.

 

Re-sign Marky at <= 6 mil, then if possible, re-sign Tanev <= 5 mil. Can't afford Toffoli.

 

Re-sign Virtanen at <= 1.75 and Motte <= 1.5. Can't afford Stecher.

 

Re-sign Gauds at <= 1.25 and MacEwen <= 1.

 

That's already 16.5 mil out of 17 mil cap space just to keep the same team as the beginning of the season. Surely, there will be improvement from within, all the core players will have more experience and will have few months to train. 

 

JB has to get super creative to improve the team next season. Eriksson, Roussel, and to some degree, Sutter should be replaced by cheaper and younger players. Unloading their contracts will not be easy although Sutter's contract may be moveable. Ferland will be on LTIR, giving up 3.5 mil of space. So if he can clear out one of 21, 26, or 20, that gives him some space to work with.

 

Easiest route and maybe the right thing to do is to stay patient and don't make any big trade. Tinker with the bottom 6 by bringing in someone that can do what Ferland was supposed to do and otherwise just promote prospects to start the season and wait till TDL to make any moves necessary in preparation for the playoffs.

 

Up front, Hoglander and Lind will be vying for a middle 6 spot. Podkolzin may join mid season.

 

On the back end, Juolevi, Rathbone, and Rafferty will be vying for a bottom 6 spot. With Tryamkin a possibility to join mid season.

 

 

 

[AnotherCanucksFan]

I'd suggest before we get ahead of ourselves that we consider:

• we hadn't got to the playoffs in FIVE years
• we hadn't won a single playoff game in NINE years.
• The last time we'd won a playoff game was in the 2011 Stanley Cup finals.
• we played a pandemic shorted season

Why does it matter? Because we have to be very careful about building on and not breaking team chemistry. We can get excited because we got to round 2 in the playoffs, but it took a pandemic shortened season and no crowd or family distractions to get us there. We don't even know if we would have made the playoffs this year if it had been a full year and then how we would have faired after playing all those extra games.

 

The team had months off to heal injuries, rest their bodies, etc. Not a typical season or playoffs. We can build on chemistry, but I wouldn't rush to relying on the backup goalie after the first playoff wins in nine years. I think we need to try and keep both goalies and then trade a defensemen or two away to improve in that area.

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by AnotherCanucksFan

[MoneypuckOverlord]

3 hours ago, Rush17 said:

So your saying he's not a goalie guy 

 

Good thing we got Jimbo who is an expert scout :D

 

my gosh he's a terrible goalie guy and it's not like Canucks fans didn't want to see his stuff work out.  

 

He gets rid of Arturs Irbe, who miraculously has a winning record for us in 97 1998, lets him go doesn't sign him, Irbe gets a back up job in Carolina only to steal to show with the Hurricanes plays in the NHL all star game in 1999 and a Stanley cup finals in 2002,

 

.attempted to make things work with Kevin Weekes who was via the bure trade, that didn't work, traded him for declining goalie in Felix Potvin, meanwhile Garth Snow gets a shutout 1 in ever wins he has, he doesn't work out, Potvin was probably the worst goalie of the 3 goalies that plays under Burke at this point, he fails, he gets traded separtley for nothing, we flip dependable Au-coin and a 2nd rounder for Dan Cloutier, who has melt downs in playoffs, and also never worked out, picks up, tries to pull a Johan Hedberg by hoping Martin Brochu can turn into something that didn't work out he really underestimates the goalie situation.  The entire time he was here he never solved the goalie situation and had believed Cloutier can be that man, and he was a massive failure. 

 

In Anahiem they already had Gigure.  Lucky guy didn't have to worry about goaltending.

 

in Toronto he once again fails to really address anything, lol. yea not a goalie guy.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

11 minutes ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

backup goalie after the first playoff

he will be the starter now. all starters at the NHL level have to go through it.  

[I Wont Sell The Team]

Markstrom is a good player but in the 2025 season is he still going to be good and worth 5.5 - 6Mil? 

[mll]

7 hours ago, khay said:

Agree with his assessment.

 

Re-sign Marky at <= 6 mil, then if possible, re-sign Tanev <= 5 mil. Can't afford Toffoli.

 

Re-sign Virtanen at <= 1.75 and Motte <= 1.5. Can't afford Stecher.

 

Re-sign Gauds at <= 1.25 and MacEwen <= 1.

 

That's already 16.5 mil out of 17 mil cap space just to keep the same team as the beginning of the season. Surely, there will be improvement from within, all the core players will have more experience and will have few months to train. 

 

JB has to get super creative to improve the team next season. Eriksson, Roussel, and to some degree, Sutter should be replaced by cheaper and younger players. Unloading their contracts will not be easy although Sutter's contract may be moveable. Ferland will be on LTIR, giving up 3.5 mil of space. So if he can clear out one of 21, 26, or 20, that gives him some space to work with.

 

Easiest route and maybe the right thing to do is to stay patient and don't make any big trade. Tinker with the bottom 6 by bringing in someone that can do what Ferland was supposed to do and otherwise just promote prospects to start the season and wait till TDL to make any moves necessary in preparation for the playoffs.

 

Up front, Hoglander and Lind will be vying for a middle 6 spot. Podkolzin may join mid season.

 

On the back end, Juolevi, Rathbone, and Rafferty will be vying for a bottom 6 spot. With Tryamkin a possibility to join mid season.

 

 

 

Not 17M in cap space but 15.3M.   Canucks have a bonus overage of 1.7M that still has to be accounted for and will reduce next season's cap space.

 

LTIR does not really give 3.5M in cap space. If they use that full amount they won't be able to recall players in case of injuries or add Podkolzin later in the season.  LTIR does not allow to bank cap space so the team has to be under the full cap hit for a recall.  Also under LTIR the performance bonus that is still achievable has to also be covered. For example a Juolevi recall under LTIR is not 863K but 1.7M and they need to be under the cap by that full amount to bring him up.  Idem for adding Podkolzin.

  

Edited September 7, 2020 by mll

[Rush17]

7 hours ago, khay said:

Agree with his assessment.

 

Re-sign Marky at <= 6 mil, then if possible, re-sign Tanev <= 5 mil. Can't afford Toffoli.

 

Re-sign Virtanen at <= 1.75 and Motte <= 1.5. Can't afford Stecher.

 

Re-sign Gauds at <= 1.25 and MacEwen <= 1.

 

That's already 16.5 mil out of 17 mil cap space just to keep the same team as the beginning of the season. Surely, there will be improvement from within, all the core players will have more experience and will have few months to train. 

 

JB has to get super creative to improve the team next season. Eriksson, Roussel, and to some degree, Sutter should be replaced by cheaper and younger players. Unloading their contracts will not be easy although Sutter's contract may be moveable. Ferland will be on LTIR, giving up 3.5 mil of space. So if he can clear out one of 21, 26, or 20, that gives him some space to work with.

 

Easiest route and maybe the right thing to do is to stay patient and don't make any big trade. Tinker with the bottom 6 by bringing in someone that can do what Ferland was supposed to do and otherwise just promote prospects to start the season and wait till TDL to make any moves necessary in preparation for the playoffs.

 

Up front, Hoglander and Lind will be vying for a middle 6 spot. Podkolzin may join mid season.

 

On the back end, Juolevi, Rathbone, and Rafferty will be vying for a bottom 6 spot. With Tryamkin a possibility to join mid season.

 

 

 

Virtanen and Stecher both have arb rights and could get up to 3m if it went to arbitration. So lets say they get between 5-6M  combined. Motte you can probably get around 1.5M for sure. Marky's agent wanted 6-6.5M from the sounds of it prior to the playoff run.  He probably gets 6M minimum - he might be able to hold out for 6.5-7M from the right team. Tofolli we might be able to get between 4.5-5.5M - I think he loves it here and would take between 4.5-5M.

 

I didn't even realize Gaudette was up - great eye. I personally feel he would be a great trade chip to dump some salary. That probably wouldn't be a popular take but he has a high perceived value. I think he's going to come back heavier and better so that is a scary player to think of moving. Gaudette has to be worth some money. He also could be offer-sheeted. If a team needs a potential 2nd line C down the road if you overpaid him via an offer sheet we might not be able to match.

 

Lets say his value is 2-2.5M i dont know its actual value. If a team offered 3.5M x 3-4 years. i'm not sure we could match that. We also have to figure how much we want to pay for a 3rd line C.. We will have Petey and Bo making some serious cheddar in a year. I know Bo is on a sweetheart deal but regardless its going to be a lot of salary, it could reach 12-15M easily for the two of them. 

[Rush17]

3 hours ago, T.Shelby said:

Markstrom is a good player but in the 2025 season is he still going to be good and worth 5.5 - 6Mil? 

Probably will be winding down then. Someone said recently on these forums he doesn't have a lot of miles on him.. that doesn't make sense though because he has continued to play hockey even if it wasn't in the NHL he was still playing a ton of minutes in the AHL. I would be scared of offering a lot of term. I personally would like to see him back on a 3-4 year deal but the market will probably dictate he gets 5-6 which isn't smart for us unless there is no trade or expansion protection. That would at least allow us 1 more year to see if Demko's play is real and sustainable.. but why would he agree to that? teams will offer him protection from  Seattle and possibly a modified NTC.