Should the Canucks walk away from Toffoli and Markstrom at the end of this season?

[JM_]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

yes - that decision doesn't have to - probably should not - be made before the time comes to settle the e.d.

my tendency/hypothetical is  that all other things being equal, you keep the player approaching their prime, as opposed to the player that will be 32 - but again that depends on a lot of things the transpire between now and then - and all things are not equal, they are very complicated.  Demko has more years ahead of him, he's more affordable in some critical years approaching and he has comparable talent to Markstrom.  Markstrom has been a workhorse, he's proven, and we're not assessing him after a pair of games - a tiny sample - in which there was not a great deal of pressure or expectations - nothing to lose circumstances - which is not to minimize what Demko did.  Markstrom has killed it over a pair of seasons where the team was a lower end to mid range team.  The team played differently in front of Demko this playoffs than they did Markstrom - they collapsed to protect Demko where they typically track meet the game relying on Markstrom - different circumstances.   They are both outstanding goaltenders.

 

I want a tandem. I think we're seeing why having two legit goaltenders is critical if you hope to win a Cup/ win in the playoffs.

for me, I'm looking at Demko's entire development path which is pretty darn good. But I do agree totally that two goalies is the way to go, whether thats Marky or someone else we'll see. Jim's hands aren't tied in some ways, and really this is up to Marky. The Canucks really can't go much over 6 mil so if TO or Calgary or some other team goes all in on Marky its out of our hands anyway. Regardless theres zero reason to make a knee jerk decision here. 

[Rush17]

Not Tof. He has a lower body injury and is still helping us win!

[Ballisticsports.]

 There may be no hockey next year, so age becomes more important, as does Demko

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

 There may be no hockey next year, so age becomes more important, as does Demko

why would there be no hockey? the bubble system works, just need two more of them. And likely only to start the year, since vaccine development is going well. 

[Provost]

15 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

 There may be no hockey next year, so age becomes more important, as does Demko

That seems pretty darn unlikely.  I don’t expect a normal 82 game season, but they have shown they can figure out something to salvage some of the billions in revenue and honour TV deals.

 

I am envisioning a January start, in division/country games right off the bat to buy time and reduce travel.  Maybe even mini-tourney formats.

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, Darius said:

pie in the sky xbox video game style thinking:  let marky , tanev and toff walk and sign Pietrangelo.  Stud d man who will let you get away with lesser goaltending and would be a tremendous boost to the d core.  can play physical and put up 40-50 points. 

 

grasping at straws...and now that i look. hes 30 years old...yeah, maybe not.

 

 

I had originally thought Of that as well (your AP idea), but that wouldn’t help address our up coming cap issues unfortunately.   
 

I was originally against the following idea, but I’m now of the opinion that we will have to take take a calculated risk on our youthful players and simply let all of our UFA’s (except for Tanev) walk.

 

Next season:   
 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Eriksson (PodkolzinInApril)

Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Sutter

Edler-Myers

Hughes-Tanev

Juolevi-Benn

 

Rafferty

 

Demko

VetBackUp

 

2021-2022:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Podkolzin

Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Hughes-Myers

Juolevi-Tanev

Tryamkin-Rafferty

Rathbone

 

Demko

VetBackUp or Dipietro

 

This above approach might be the correct approach to take if management....

 

1) Is trying to create enough cap space to afford Pettersson and Hughes without pushing kids into roles that they aren’t ready for (ie the need to sign Tanev).

 

2) wants to commit to having a younger core so that things are not only more manageable from a cap perspective, but the ‘window’ can last longer as well.

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[Whalespray]

Jake I feel like has played himself out the door. He is a guy just built to excel in the playoffs and he has been the definition of passenger honestly I would 100% package him up and make a push for Max Domi's rights. 

 

Markstrom has been this seasons MVP I don't forget that just because Demko is playing with his hair on fire. Demko's perfomance thus far in relief of Markstrom has been nothing short of unreal aaaaand it's also just that. It's un realistic to expect that he will continue to perform anywhere near this level. He will eventually become human again but that can wait until after the playoffs. With the Covid and the stagnant cap I highly doubt Markstrom will be offered the moon in free agency. He's 30 I doubt he wants to go to a rebuilding team you can see just how much he is enjoying being in the hunt. If he is made an offer he cannot refuse I will be sad to see him go but there will be good veteran backups on the market that can be had for a song and exposed in the ED. The Canucks have to work within the confines of their payroll and it will be up to Marky to decide what is most important to him. 

 

Toffoli I think is here for a good time not a long time we need to upgrade our D and it is going to take money to do that. "So long and thanks for all the fish." 

 

Sooo out Jake and Toffy in Nils and Pod I don't think the Canucks batt and eyelash

 

[The Listening]

5 hours ago, babych said:

In a perfect world we could keep both goalies and AND Toffoli. Unfortunately there are too many bad contracts on this team to do that (we all know this).

 

Even before the playoffs I was in support of letting Markstrom walk.. not that I think Demko is the better goalie right now, but his age fits the demographics of this team a lot better, as does his contract.

 

This is a sport, but it's also a business. I think the hard decision would be to let Markstrom walk and move forward with the younger, cheaper guy and hope he develops in the way we need.

I've been in the same mind set as you regarding the Markstrom situation. We can't let Demko walk and keep Markstrom, as good as Markstrom has been for us. It does not make business sense to keep the older goaltender when we've been developing Demko for the last 4+ seasons or so. Develop the young guy just to lose him? No thanks. Sign Markstrom to a bridge deal and let him get paid by Seattle. I guarantee we will regret it if Demko is claimed. 

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

For arguement sake, what if Demko were to suffer a 3RD concussion?

 

Careful what you wish for...

[cuporbust]

6 hours ago, BoKnows said:

Why's everyone ready to give up on Marky after 2 solid games from our backup.  

 

Sign Markstrom and trade the worse of the two goalies before the expansion draft  

I dont think everyone is giving up on him, but there is a legit argument for keeping demko at a much cheaper price , and spending the Markstrom money elsewhere.  We also have the expansion draft to think about.  Demko would be a prime target. 

 

Markstrom is also no spring chicken, so that plays into it as well. Obviously,  the best case scenario if they went all in on demko would be to sign Markstrom and trade him after next season, but I highly doubt he would sign a contract that makes him attractive without a no trade/ no movement clause. They would probably have to walk away from him for nothing in return. Still not a bad problem to have. Either way , we likely have a very good starter.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by cuporbust

[Patel Bure]

3 minutes ago, cuporbust said:

I dont think everyone is giving up on him, but there is a legit argument for keeping demko at a much cheaper price , and spending the Markstrom money elsewhere.  We also have the expansion draft to think about.  Demko would be a prime target. 

 

Markstrom is also no spring chicken, so that plays into it as well. Obviously,  the best case scenario if they went all in on demko would be to sign Markstrom and trade him after next season, but I highly doubt he would sign a contract that makes him attractive without a no trade/ no movement clause. They would probably have to walk away from him for nothing in return.

 

 

Well said.

 

We also have to consider the fact that if Markstrom signs here, he might ask for an NMC which would make him ineligible for the expansion draft if I recall correctly.   
 

Let’s face facts:  If Markstrom signs here, it would be for 4-6 years......more likely towards the latter.   Even on a 4 year deal, the Canucks would pretty much be committing to Markstrom an in essence, making Demko’s time in Vancouver borrowed time.    

[Phil_314]

6 hours ago, BoKnows said:

Why's everyone ready to give up on Marky after 2 solid games from our backup.  

 

Sign Markstrom and trade the worse of the two goalies before the expansion draft  

It's precisely because of the expansion draft and the fact that Marky's up for a new contract that people are considering this.
With a NTC likely part of the ask, it'll be tough to trade Marky should he age poorly, plus the team might lose out on Demko's high potential and cheap contract.

[Patel Bure]

16 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

For arguement sake, what if Demko were to suffer a 3RD concussion?

 

Careful what you wish for...

Which is why it would be important for the Canucks to sign a “1A” goalie (like Thomas Greiss) to complement Demko until Dipietro is ready to be the back-up.

[BoKnows]

9 minutes ago, cuporbust said:

I dont think everyone is giving up on him, but there is a legit argument for keeping demko at a much cheaper price , and spending the Markstrom money elsewhere.  We also have the expansion draft to think about.  Demko would be a prime target. 

 

Markstrom is also no spring chicken, so that plays into it as well. Obviously,  the best case scenario if they went all in on demko would be to sign Markstrom and trade him after next season, but I highly doubt he would sign a contract that makes him attractive without a no trade/ no movement clause. They would probably have to walk away from him for nothing in return. Still not a bad problem to have. Either way , we likely have a very good starter.

 

 

 

Just now, Phil_314 said:

It's precisely because of the expansion draft and the fact that Marky's up for a new contract that people are considering this.
With a NTC likely part of the ask, it'll be tough to trade Marky should he age poorly, plus the team might lose out on Demko's high potential and cheap contract.

Both make good points.  I agree that Marky's age is a factor, and the fact he's on his second this season is also concerning.  It'll be interesting to see what road Benning goes down.

[oldnews]

the logic of trading players before / to prepare for the expansion draft doesn't necessarily add up.

 

Ie if you re-sign Markstrom, have both he and Demko heading into the e.d. - and the unprotected guy gets selected, then you've effectively buffered your forward and defensive group - and you aren't necessarily any worse off than if you'd neglected to re-sign Markstrom because of the pending e.d.  He's a UFA - if he wound up being the asset Seattle took, you gained an expansion asset in the form of a player that has free agency rights.

 

once  a team reaches a relative point of depth - they are going to lose a good player, period.  attempting to thin down your team at every position in order to avoid a loss, might actually leave you thinner than had you simply gone about your business, continued to add organizational depth, and accepted that you're going to take a loss.

 

if there is such a massive gap between Demko and the potential forwards or defensemen that would be exposed, then perhaps you make a move to get the asset value from that player if you can in a form that is not exposed - but otherwise, there are a number of ways to go about it - including possibly offering a DiPietro and/or other young asset, perhaps depending on how the team's competitiveness shapes up in the interim.

 

But for me - I hate these expansion drafts - they are such a massive distraction and they can divide a team's building approach - the last one came at an opportune time, but this one is looking like the contrary.

Edited September 4, 2020 by oldnews

[smithers joe]

i’ld like to see them sign toffoli and make him available to seattle in the ed. maybe a deal so they stay away from our goalies. 

i wish motte had jake’s size and jake have motte’s desire and heart. motte could move up a line or two. i believe. 

if they aren’t resigning sutter and beagle, they will need suitable centers and penalty killers. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Pickly said:

Markstrom is looking for his first real contract and is in line to make some pretty good bank. I don’t think he’s into signing some sort of contract that will be more beneficial to the Canucks, ala one that exposes him to the expansion draft. Guys totally played himself into a 5-6 million dollar multi year deal. He deserves it wether the Canucks are the ones to

give him it or not. 

True, but there just aren't many teams out there that will give him 6 mil.  He's not the only goalie on the market, and the contenders that could use an upgrade just don't have the cap space.  The only places that have a lot of cap room are Buffalo, Detroit, LA Kings and Ottawa.  I just don't see a fit there.  Devils have a lot of cap space but have Blackwood who needs to be resigned and is looking like the next top goalie of the future. 

 

I really hope that he's willing to take a 5.5 mil/season contract for as long as he wants but without expansion protection.  That way we can let both goalies play the next season out and decide which one we protect.  

 

 

Let's not forget that Demko is very injury prone.  He's missed a lot of time in the AHL and NHL.  Going into a season with only Demko could be scary. 

[grandmaster]

Ok let’s relax here and enjoy the moment. Demko is on fire and hopefully can keep it up. Don’t be wanting to turf any of our guys. JB is a smart man and will figure things out when the time comes.  If there is a way to keep them both, he should and most definitely will. 

[PunjabiCanucks]

7 hours ago, BoKnows said:

Why's everyone ready to give up on Marky after 2 solid games from our backup.  

 

Sign Markstrom and trade the worse of the two goalies before the expansion draft  

Simple as that- give ourself options and play demko next year 30% of the starts

[CanucksJay]

Im all in on Demko not because of his last 2 games but because of his pedigree. 

We drafted him knowing how good he was. He's proven himself every step of the way. And hes now showing it on the toughest stage with the microscope on him. 

If he was a flash in the pan average goalie who lit it up for 2 games, then yes there would be some concern but it's not. Hes always been touted as a great goalie and we've developed him and he hasnt disappointed at any point.